Her government commitment

[tsap seui]

I hear what you're saying David and that was my first thought too...just go over to China and marry her and be done with it. But these guys have a coupla years to kill anyhow, and some folks do get lucky with a visitors visa, seems like one in 10 anyhow, maybe she will learn more english from a VO than just the word "NO", get to come to America, get married and get that clock tickin'.

 

Knowin' what most of us know about the arbitrary system, and not being a bettin' man, I'd take the sure bet and go get married Chinese style, it's a real funny affair, I thought (we still laugh about our marriage in Shenyang)...well worth the price of admission but again, what the heck, give visitors visa a try, you've got two years to kill anyhow....just get that 2 year clock ticking and time your application for an interview around 2 years after the marriage. I read all the trouble and extra money folks have to waste on gettin' the 10 year card with AOS, it would be silly in this situation to not go for an IR-1 visa.

 

For whatever it's worth, in our case I held back from even applying for the CR-1 a few months until I was more sure of hittin' the 2 year mark by the interview or shortly afterwards. Good ol' USCIS held our app for 8 months just so we'd make SURE we had the 2 years married....LOL...nice guys that they are. It helps to have low friends in high places....or is that high friends in low places? When it comes to the USCIS and State Department I have trouble figuring that one out.

 

Good luck with your ride OP. I hope the girl gets to come over on a visitors visa. Just don't be hurt if they tell her NO.... once, twice, three times a lady.

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

INTENDING AND PLANNING to marry on a tourist visa is fraud... It is pre-meditated, however you spin it. I would personally never recommend it.

 

I hope we're clear now - NO IT ISN'T FRAUD

 

It's not a question on the visa application - there's no need to lie. I THINK we ALL agree that THEY may or may not want to bother trying for a visa - it's a choice. Some tourists DO want to get married in the U.S. - THAT is an industry, e.g. Las Vegas and, for Asian (especially Japanese) tourists, Guam.

[Randy W]

Not to ignore tsap - he seems to have the best grip on the whole deal.

[david_dawei]

INTENDING AND PLANNING to marry on a tourist visa is fraud... It is pre-meditated, however you spin it. I would personally never recommend it.

 

I hope we're clear now - NO IT ISN'T FRAUD

If they openly admit there intention is to use a visitor visa for the purpose of marrying.. then they have come clean... And the problem will be whether a VO will believe that, given the admission, she will truly go back to china...

 

If they choose to not disclose that but later are found to have done that and then asked at a IV interview in GUZ... I am not sure the VO will hold the same opinion. I think it is best the OP understands all sides of the issue.

 

And I hear you too Tsap... good points... time to kill... why not just try it... I don't want to talk the OP out of it; just that he understands the issues and then he won't come back after a visitor visa interview and complain how lousy our government is, etc... Give the wheel a spin but accept the outcome.

[dnoblett]

INTENDING AND PLANNING to marry on a tourist visa is fraud... It is pre-meditated, however you spin it. I would personally never recommend it.

 

I hope we're clear now - NO IT ISN'T FRAUD

 

It's not a question on the visa application - there's no need to lie. I THINK we ALL agree that THEY may or may not want to bother trying for a visa - it's a choice. Some tourists DO want to get married in the U.S. - THAT is an industry, e.g. Las Vegas and, for Asian (especially Japanese) tourists, Guam.

Forgot Hawaii another favorite marriage location.

[tsap seui]

INTENDING AND PLANNING to marry on a tourist visa is fraud... It is pre-meditated, however you spin it. I would personally never recommend it.

 

I hope we're clear now - NO IT ISN'T FRAUD

If they openly admit there intention is to use a visitor visa for the purpose of marrying.. then they have come clean... And the problem will be whether a VO will believe that, given the admission, she will truly go back to china...

 

If they choose to not disclose that but later are found to have done that and then asked at a IV interview in GUZ... I am not sure the VO will hold the same opinion. I think it is best the OP understands all sides of the issue.

 

And I hear you too Tsap... good points... time to kill... why not just try it... I don't want to talk the OP out of it; just that he understands the issues and then he won't come back after a visitor visa interview and complain how lousy our government is, etc... Give the wheel a spin but accept the outcome.

Well sir, you do raise up a good point here...the ol' interview, I can see that now..."Well Mrs. Iwanna GotoAmerica , I see here YOU used a visitors visa to get hitched in the states... cough cough.... did you tell your tourist visa officer about your plan to do that when you applied for that tourist visa, or did your marriage just happen out of the blue? Speaking of blue, I'm gonna blue slip you for a few months until we can get to the bottom of this....hope you told that tourist visa officer about your plan to marry in the states on your visit."

 

Jeez, as squeeky clean as we have to be on everything else for an interview, maybe marryin' in the states on a tourist visa isn't such a hot idea, even if she does go back to China....unless she fesses up to it at her tourist visa interview....which is sure to get her denied for that trip...IEEE YIEEE YIEEE Lucy, what a mess this could turn out to be at an IV interview.

 

Buddy, for your future IV plans you may be better off to not get married over here, just let her come over here for the honeymoon and you follow her home to get married in China afterwards....if she can even get a visitors visa to beging with.....just sayin'.

 

Would hate to see you get caught up in one of those immigration visa officers web in a couple of years, they like to give folks lots of time to wonder what went wrong when they deny you. Just know, when they deny you you are looking at another 2 years or so of waiting, for the State Department to send your case back to the USCIS in the states, the USCIS to send you a letter for you to present your rebuttal to the State Department's charges against you, and possibly accept your rebuttal and send the case back, or USCIS could just agree with State and really put you into a world of hurt.

 

I dunno, what you have in mind is innocent enough on the one hand but we aren't dealing with logical people in Guangzhou when it comes to immigration visa interviews. They've denied or held up tens of thousands of folks for lots less than not being upfront about marriage plans on tourist visa applications, no matter if the lil' lady went back to China as planned. Those sharks in Guangzhou LOVE to look for reasons to deny good people.

 

You've got a tough one here. Tell em the truth up front on the tourist visa application and I'll bet a dollar to a nickel there is no way they'll say yes to her. Boy, if they did and she went back home that would be a nice thing to front load on your CR-1 or IR-1 application....sorry, I can't for the life of me see them okaying her tourist visa application with that on it....they barely give those visas out as it is.

 

That's a big roll of the dice when you look at it like David points out....for the IV interview.

 

Good luck with your decision, at least both sides are in your line of sight now. You could get very lucky all the way around, or you could get to the IV interview and walk away asking yourself, "why did I do that 2 years ago."

 

David and Randy have been around quiet awhile, both make good sound points, and anything is possible in this life, but you want to be as squeeky clean as possible for that IV interview.

 

I hope it works out for you, whichever way you go about it.

 

tsap seui

Edited July 20, 2012 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Not to ignore tsap - he seems to have the best grip on the whole deal.

 

. . . I take it back. Sorry, but there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with getting married anytime anywhere. Again, there's a whole tourism industry around foreigners getting married in the states.

[tsap seui]

Not to ignore tsap - he seems to have the best grip on the whole deal.

 

. . . I take it back. Sorry, but there's ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with getting married anytime anywhere. Again, there's a whole tourism industry around foreigners getting married in the states.

 

That's okay to take it back Randy, no need to be sorry. I haven't done any research on tourism or people who travel to America to marry, been way too busy, so I'm out of my league on that.

 

Now, dealing with the State Department in Guangzhou China with it's visa officers who look for any and everything they can to deny people, even using speculation, conjecture, and wild ass guesses.....well, you don't need to reread my timeline on that subject.

 

I hope the OP gets his wishes, should he choose to get married in the states, if she even gets a travel visa to here, If he does, I hope at the wife's interview she gets a VO who has studied up on this industry set up for foreigners to marry in the states, has an open mind, and doesn't use the typical Guangzhou State Department mindset that lots of us have seen and experienced. Doesn't look like the VO's in Gaungzhou have changed any. They threw away the rule book many years ago, have no oversight, and certainly don't get into any trouble for denying people for any and everything.

 

At least the OP has both sides of the story now. No matter about us, it's his wife that will be standing in front of some bozo with a badge come immigration interview day.

 

Happy trails to all.

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

My objection here is to the use of the word FRAUD - it's tossed around FAR too often and too easily, even when, as in this case, there's no indication that someone may commit a fraudulent act.

[david_dawei]

It will only take one VO to feel something sneaky is going on... and hope they don't get that VO.

 

By using a visitor visa to marry in the US, they are using a NIV to potentially gain access to 'immigrant benefits'. The difference in marrying in the US and in China is that the former puts them directly on a path to that; they can attempt to just not leave the US... The latter is only a potential step in that direction as they would ultimately still need to have a visa to enter the US. In the former case, they already got the visa to effect the marry and potential benefits.

 

My point is: An NIV is NOT supposed to be used for that... Again, just takes one VO from the toughest consulate in the world to consider this simple line of thinking... There may be an industry for this kind of thing... but we're talking specifics: VOs at GUZ...

[tsap seui]

My objection here is to the use of the word FRAUD - it's tossed around FAR too often and too easily, even when, as in this case, there's no indication that someone may commit a fraudulent act.

 

I agree Randy, the word FRAUD, is tossed around FAR too often and too easily by those IV officers in Guangzhou, China, even when, as in this case and so many others, there's no indication that someone may, or even did commit a fraudulent act.

 

Like David said, "just takes one VO from the toughest consulate in the world"....

 

It's one thing to bring the lil' darlin' over here on her tourist visa and marry her, it's a whole other ballgame in Guangzhou when you step up to a window for your interview. They don't play by anyone's rules, much less the ones the State Department has written for them to follow. They just do as they damned well please, and it'll take you the best part of two years to find out what you did wrong. Maybe this couple will be lucky if she even gets a tourist visa in the first place and they marry here. Anything is possible....LOL It's a nice plan, but the guy ought to at least hear something about where she will have her interview, down the road in two years.

 

I wouldn't purposely put my wife in that posistion for her interview, no matter how innocent our intentions were. There is life, and then there is a harsh reality in Guangzhou. Guangzhou don't care about your sweet lil' innocence, in their book you are guilty until proven innocent....and we'll give you another couple of years and lots of stress after your denial to prove your innocence.

 

Maybe the guy can get married here without registering it with the courthouse, for whatever reason he feels neccessaryto marry in America, then when he goes to China next time get married "officially" for the boys and girls in Guangzhou benefit. No harm done.

 

It would be very interesting to hear what our expert on Guangzhou interviews, immigration attorney Marc Ellis, and his very able assistant in Guangzhou Eunice (smiling Asia) would say about this scenerio. Think he, or Eunice would say...'sure folks, you go ahead and marry in America on her visitors visa. The fine folks at the consulate in Guangzhou won't care when she goes to her interview."

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

The way you establish a good "track record" is to leave before your allowed stay expires. Once again - no fraud is involved.

[dnoblett]

The way you establish a good "track record" is to leave before your allowed stay expires. Once again - no fraud is involved.

True, coming to visit fiancee and then shortly before leaving the USA decide on the spur of the moment to get hitched is common, the original intent was to visit. For example came to USA to visit and tour some with future spouse, decide to visit Las Vegas and while there fiancee proposes to tie the not right then and there, this is normal, I doubt a court house or Vegas wedding would be questioned. Now they may question a fancy planned wedding happening several days to a couple weeks after arriving, or they may question any large planned wedding.

 

No overstay, and no Immigrations intent. I would believe it would take several other red flags for the consulate to even look at the honey moon in Vegas.

[Randy W]

My objection here is to the use of the word FRAUD - it's tossed around FAR too often and too easily, even when, as in this case, there's no indication that someone may commit a fraudulent act.

 

I agree Randy, the word FRAUD, is tossed around FAR too often and too easily by those IV officers in Guangzhou, China, even when, as in this case and so many others, there's no indication that someone may, or even did commit a fraudulent act.

 

. . .

 

tsap seui

 

I'm going to have to ask here, guy, that you please leave me out of your fantasies.

 

I'm not interested in getting into ANYTHING with you.

[tsap seui]

Gee whizz Sonnybucks, when it looked like I was siding with you you're huggin' me and telling everyone not to over look me as I seem to have a good grip on the subject, then when David brings up the subject of the interview in Guangzhou and I change my tune you push me out of your arms and distance yourself as if I'm having fantasies, and you tell me you're not interested in getting into ANYTHING with me. Golly Bob Howdy, now I don't know rather to put the roses you sent me into a nice water filled vase, or just beat the dawg with them.

 

Life is way to short for childish games like who's side someone is on. This is supposed to be a team effort to give folks looking to have a future interview in Guangzhou, China all the sides of their questions so they can better understand what they are getting into and best prepare for that fateful day. Ego's and whose side are you on in the sandbox really should be left at home, or in PM's at best.

 

To get back on topic and not waste anymore time in this silly interlude with dstarsboy's discussion and his questions.

 

Fact:

I do not believe dstarsboy and his girlfriend are trying anything fraudulent and have never indicated I thought what they are thinking of doing would be fraudlent anywhere in this thread.

 

Fact:

I feel that folks who have gone through interviews in Guangzhou, China should try and be responsible when answering newer members who haven't had that pleasure ask questions about actions that could influence their spouces interview negatively. To hell with industries set up to facilitate marriages on tourist visas....this interview won't be taking place in Canada or England. It WILL be taking place in a very difficult consulate, as David alludes to, the toughest consulate in the world, where your every action is put under a microscope and the VO's have no oversight on their decisions. Your innocence means nothing to them....if you're REALY innocent come back in 2 years and prove it is how they playball.

 

Fact: I started off in this thread thinking dstarsboy and his girlfriend had a pretty cool idea, until David woke me up from a "fantasy" by mentioning "interview in the consulate in Guangzhou, China". A consulate that plays by it's own rules and where everyone is considered guilty until proven innocent, and where they use speculation, conjecture, and wild ass guess as their main forms of denial.

 

Fact: Randy, you never answered my bold lettered question as to how Marc Ellis or Eunice would advise any client they had who asked them about how marrying on a tourist visa could affect the outcome of their immigration visa interview in China. If you REALLY want to back up your arguement then PM Marc or better yet Eunice and tell us what they say. Sure, this fellow and his girlfriend could do just that, marry in America on a tourist visa, and not be fraudulent at all. Does that mean that down the road Guangzhou will see it that way? How many innocent people have been denied for lot's less in Guangzhou's distorted and fetid eyes? There are more sides to this than just could they marry on a tourist visa legally, sure they can. Shouldn't we be responsible and tell dstarsboy what could happen with their innocent action?

 

If I have offended you in some other way than simply by presenting a different viewpoint to a fellow asking questions, questions that could negatively affect his wife's interview in Gaungzhou of all the consulates in the world, then I sincerely apologize Randy. Honestly, good guy that you are, I don't think about you enough to consciously take valuable time and try purposely to offend you.

 

tsap seui