What does the average citizen think of Americans

[david_dawei]

A side note: China has a very long, long history of considering any people other than themselves in rather derogatory terms. In some of the oldest writings is references to the 'ghost area'; anything outside the central plains. Barbarian is a typical term. Lao wei connotes a negative meaning but it's long use also neutralized it for some. I do think over time there is a generational shift in attitudes.

[Randy W]

My wife said that she had had several marriage proposals after her divorce (and one child), but from what I see here, that's unusual.

IMO, it would depend if the men were single (as in never married) or divorced; If single then it would be surprising; if divorced it is less surprising and more expected.

 

No it doesn't depend on that at all. It is what it is. Sorry.

[david_dawei]

It is a known relationship issue: Single marry single; divorced marry divorced. Of course there are exceptions but it exists due to the 'baggage' factor. No need to discuss it further if it's of no interest.

[Randy W]

Yes - it's been discussed pretty thoroughly that divorced women in China tend to have difficulties finding another partner. I'm not entirely sure of my wife's situation between marriages (beyond that she did find prospects). Sorry if I was overly snappy there.

[A Mafan]

A side note: China has a very long, long history of considering any people other than themselves in rather derogatory terms. In some of the oldest writings is references to the 'ghost area'; anything outside the central plains. Barbarian is a typical term. Lao wei connotes a negative meaning but it's long use also neutralized it for some. I do think over time there is a generational shift in attitudes.

FWIW, Chinese don't have separate words for ghosts and demons. I think "demon area" rather than "ghost area" is probably more analogous.

 

Also, I haven't studied the etymology of "lao wai" before. The way I understood it was closer to what they describe here:

Foreigners have since been referred to as "Laowai": a term used for brotherhood or intimate friendship in China, as in "Laoli," "Laozhang" or "Laowang." As is known to some foreigners, "Lao" is a term of respect and intimacy in the Chinese language, which suggests a change in Chinese attitudes towards foreigners: the Chinese are beginning to treat foreigners as equals and accept them as close friends.

 

Considering this, "Laowai" is neither a bad term, nor does it convey a negative meaning. The change in reference to foreigners represents historical evolution and social progress that could be understood and accepted by most foreigners.

 

I'd be interested to hear any different explanation of how the term developed and what it means.

[david_dawei]

FWIW, Chinese don't have separate words for ghosts and demons. I think "demon area" rather than "ghost area" is probably more analogous.

I agree or maybe even 'devil's area' since 'foreign devil' was a known translation of Yang Gui Zi (洋鬼子). Similarly, "fan gui lao" (番鬼佬) was shortened to gui lao and used more in the south. Terms like Lao Wei have become colloquial term for foreigners but if you talk to some chinese they will admit there is an embedded negative in the historical meaning it flows from.

 

 

 

Also, I haven't studied the etymology of "lao wai" before. The way I understood it was closer to what they describe here:

Foreigners have since been referred to as "Laowai": a term used for brotherhood or intimate friendship in China, as in "Laoli," "Laozhang" or "Laowang." As is known to some foreigners, "Lao" is a term of respect and intimacy in the Chinese language, which suggests a change in Chinese attitudes towards foreigners: the Chinese are beginning to treat foreigners as equals and accept them as close friends.

 

Considering this, "Laowai" is neither a bad term, nor does it convey a negative meaning. The change in reference to foreigners represents historical evolution and social progress that could be understood and accepted by most foreigners.

 

I'd be interested to hear any different explanation of how the term developed and what it means.

 

 

 

Here is what I came up with in my research some years ago: Hui 華 and Yi 夷 are an ancient distinction between the ethnic groups thought of as the homogenous group versus the ‘outsiders’ or barbarians. All four directions N,S,E,W had names for the 'foreign devils' who are ready to invade; and therein lies the unquestioned historical issue: China developed from the beginning an isolationist policy in terms of a political city-state-rule.

 

Hui is the central plains tribes who had joined forces by the Xia Dynasty; thus they were called Hui Xia. Later when the Shang Dynasty took rule the 'central-ness' obtained the Zhong (中) we know today but it was Zhong Shang, Central Shang (中商). When the Zhou Dynasty came to rule, of course they would not adopt the previous dynasty name and we end up with Zhong Guo ((中國) ), the middle Kingdom: China.

 

The four directions were referred to as:

East: Dong Yi (東夷, showing the character big and a bow)

West: Xi Rong ((西戎 showing the character for weapon or war)

South: Nan Man (南蠻 showing the character of a snake)

Di (北狄 showing the character of a dog and fire).

 

As mentioned, all outside areas were anciently called Gui Fang鬼方 (demon or devil's regions), as well over time as Gui Zi and Gui Lao. China's isolationism shows up in various later dynasties about how to get rid of the 'foreign devil', 'foreign power', 'foreign country': OUTSIDERS.

 

That Lao Wei (foreigner) ultimately uses a honoric title of Lao coupled with "foreigner outsider" is possibly great foreign policy pulled over the eyes of the foreign devils who are oblivious to the history of china... As generations move on, the phrase is less understood in ancient context which is probably good for everyone.

Edited May 28, 2012 by david_dawei (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

Here is what I came up with in my research some years ago: Hui 華 and Yi 夷 are an ancient distinction between the ethnic groups thought of as the homogenous group versus the ‘outsiders’ or barbarians. All four directions N,S,E,W had names for the 'foreign devils' who are ready to invade; and therein lies the unquestioned historical issue: China developed from the beginning an isolationist policy in terms of a political city-state-rule.

 

Hui is the central plains tribes who had joined forces by the Xia Dynasty; thus they were called Hui Xia. Later when the Shang Dynasty took rule the 'central-ness' obtained the Zhong (中) we know today but it was Zhong Shang, Central Shang (中商). When the Zhou Dynasty came to rule, of course they would not adopt the previous dynasty name and we end up with Zhong Guo ((中國) ), the middle Kingdom: China.

 

The four directions were referred to as:

East: Dong Yi (東夷, showing the character big and a bow)

West: Xi Rong ((西戎 showing the character for weapon or war)

South: Nan Man (南蠻 showing the character of a snake)

Di (北狄 showing the character of a dog and fire).

 

As mentioned, all outside areas were anciently called Gui Fang鬼方 (demon or devil's regions), as well over time as Gui Zi and Gui Lao. China's isolationism shows up in various later dynasties about how to get rid of the 'foreign devil', 'foreign power', 'foreign country': OUTSIDERS.

 

That Lao Wei (foreigner) ultimately uses a honoric title of Lao coupled with "foreigner outsider" is possibly great foreign policy pulled over the eyes of the foreign devils who are oblivious to the history of china... As generations move on, the phrase is less understood in ancient context which is probably good for everyone.

Rgr, good explanation.

 

I have a graphic I found previously that shows the barbarians by direction...I'd upload/display it if I knew how...

[rgranlund]

What does the average American citizen think of Chinese nationals? Personally, I think the myth of the "average" citizen is as mystifying as the myth of "national interests." Everybody is different. My hypothesis is that there would be a wide attitudinal differences among Chinese nationals along age, urban/rural, and educational variables. Of course, interviewing technique would be important. If you interviewed people individually, they would likely respond differently than if asked publicly. Also, it would depend on who was doing the asking and how the questions were presented. If Americans were polled on Fox TV about their opinion of President Obama, for example, their responses would merely reflect the bias of their conservative constituents. Similarly, the responses of Chinese nationals to American tourists would be biased by the "reporting" of media personality, Yang Rui, who recently fanned xenophobic sentiment on CCTV by bashing all foreigners in the aftermath of two isolated incidents.

Edited June 9, 2012 by rgranlund (see edit history)