Political, Medical, Cultural Clash

[tsap seui]

I'm sad to hear of your horrible situation. Medical care in China is one thing that keeps me from wanting to live there for any length of time.

 

I would have thought that there would be some excellent care in Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong. If not, perhaps India. I did a quick search and came up with the following:

 

http://www.apollohospitals.com/

 

Are you a veteran? I'm not sure I would want to go to a VA hospital for this type of surgery.

 

Best wishes.

 

Thanks for the VA idea John. I had open heart surgery with a quad by-pass in the Pittsburgh VA hospital. The docs, the staff, and the nurses were all the most professional, caring, and compassionate individuals I have ever met in a hospital. If you were a veteran Jesse, I'd highly recommend the Pittsburgh VA hospital.

 

When I had my surgery in late 2008 I had no one at home to help me so I stayed a few weeks in the VA rehab center at Aspen Wal in Pittsburgh. One of the best experiences I ever had in a hospital and they got me back on track lickity split. You could stay at the rehab center as long as you needed to for a full recovery.

 

Oh yeah, it didn't cost me a dime, only my time.

 

If you are a veteran Jesse, I'd be happy to help you get into the Pittsburgh VA hospital...no charge...LOL

 

Oh yeah, just 8 short months before my open heart surgery I had been flown to a civilian hospital with a heart attack. The civilian cardiologist put in a stent and said I was good to go....and said I had a small problem they could look at later. Yessir, that "small problem" turned out to be 3 veins over 95% blocked and the forth 90% blocked. I never did understand why he even bothered to put a stent in if he was gonna leave me like a ticking death bomb anyhow. Give me the VA doctors everyday.

 

Of course, others milage may differ...LOL

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Yes, I am a veteran; a Vietnam veteran in fact. Thanks tsap for reminding me about this option. I will certainly keep this in mind. For now, and probably for the next few days, I will continue to engage the staff at my company to give them the chance to remove their heels from the sand, and do the right thing. The following is a copy of an email I sent to my local HR department regarding my case:

 

Hello

[hr department]

,

 

We talked about this in a short meeting today, but I want to follow up with a few points.

 

1. Both Global Health and International SOS have been searching for treatment options for many months for me.

 

I want to clarify however, that there is a distinct difference between information I get from

Global Health

, and the information I get from International SOS. Global Health is an insurance company. They are not in the business of making medical recommendations to patients. They

can

provide a list of hospitals in China, or the world where a patient may consider treatment. Global Health is a business and their business is to provide medical insurance coverage for me. It is the patient’s choice where to be treated.

 

On the other hand, I have a personal policy in China with

International SOS

, which I personally paid for. This organization provides its members with comprehensive counseling, medical treatment, and a sophisticated team of doctors who

can

evaluate my condition and make recommendations. They have been evaluating me since I was released from Hong Kong hospital in November of 2011. I have been meeting regularly with Doctor Juergen Wigge, of International SOS in Nanjing. He has been treating me for many months now, and knows my condition well. I sent you a medical report a few months ago, in which he stated that I should be treated in a clinical environment by a team of physicians, with expertise in special areas.

 

As per suggestion from

International SOS

, and

Global Health

, I met with Doctor Michael Clanton in Shanghai on April 24. He is the prominent foot and ankle surgeon who successfully treated Yao Ming, and Liu Xiang. His surgery and subsequent treatment for Liu Xiang’s Achilles tendon rupture was

so

successful that it enabled Liu Xiang to break another world record recently. It is Doctor Clanton’s suggestion, and also Doctor Juergen Wigge’s suggestion that I be treated in a clinical environment in the

USA

. However, Global Health will not approve this treatment due to their exclusion of North America. When Doctor Clanton learned this, he told me that he had a colleague in Sydney, Australia he had trained in medical school. He believes him to be one of the best, next to himself in the world. Upon learning that Global Health would not approve treatment in the

USA

, in began to pursue approval from Global Health for treatment in Australia with

Doctor Michael Lunz

, who is Doctor Clanton’s recommendation.

 

You have verbally requested that I get written documents from doctors to state that I cannot get treatment in China. Let me be on record as saying that is not possible. I have never stated that, nor have any of my doctors stated that. Rather, they have provided me with comprehensive medical reports where they have carefully evaluated my condition and suggested their opinions for treatment. It is their opinion that I be treated outside China, in the

USA

or Australia.

 

Further, you have also stated I must get Global Health to approve Emergency Evacuation to Australia for [name of my company] to agree with my treatment there. I have spoken with the staff at Global Health at length, and they clearly state

that I do not meet their minimum criteria

for emergency transport to any medical facility anywhere in the world. Emergency evacuation is reserved only for patients who have a life-threatening condition, and require immediate transport.

 

It appears [name of my company] has successfully closed all doors to me for getting treatment outside mainland China, despite the fact that two doctors have suggested that to be the best choice for me. Naturally, I am hurt and disappointed by this.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

The following is a copy of the reply from my HR department:

 

Dear annoying American person,

 

We would like to clarify again on the points stated over and over again.

 

The liabilities the company to afford is in line with the statutory regulations as defined in “Regulation on Work-Related Injury Insurances” (revision in year 2011). If your injury situation doesn’t meet the criteria for treatment outside of the employment location which is defined clearly in this regulation, company doesn’t have the responsibility to offer the support in terms of the law.

 

· Global Health Insurance is an additional offered supplementary medical insurance which you

can

leverage it for more options on medical treatment. The company is responsible to pay the insurance premium as long as we still buy it to support your injury treatment. However, other expenses and responsibilities accompanied with the medical treatment of your own choice couldn’t be afforded by the company if they are beyond the statutory regulated responsibilities. The additional offered commercial insurance benefit

can

not add more liabilities to the company.

 

We are not preventing you to treat your injury but the medical support is conditional, that is to follow China related law which is fair for both company and you.

Hope you

can

understand the point.

 

 

Incidentally, as the insurance applicant, company will support you to get adequate medical condition in the scope of the Global Health Insurance. The staff just informed

us

that your application for treatment at Sydney hospital is submitted to their management team since the estimated amount exceeds the criteria of higher level review. They will give feedback in only a couple of days.

 

 

 

Best regards,

HR person

Edited May 7, 2012 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

The following is a copy of the email I received late last night from my insurance company. This letter was a bit of a surprise as I did not expect them to put this view into writing.

 

Dear Jesse,

 

Please be informed that we have been trying to contact you today, 07 May2012, however to no avail.

 

Please find the below response from our Medical Department based on your previous enquiry.

 

After going through the case and discussing at length, our Medical Department agrees that this is a unique case where the local facilities in contact are either:

 

1) unable to adequately treat the client's condition;

2) not willing to accept the client due to various reasons; and

3) do not have the relevant experties needed to comprehensively treat the client's condition.

 

As such, in view of the resources are exhausted to locate a facility within the client's region, our Medical Department would recommend that the client be treated outside of his current region.

 

 

Please informed that we have been following up with our Claims Office regarding the status of the approval for your treatment in Australia. We understand the urgency of this matter and we have highlighted this to our Claims Office. However, they are still unable to advise on the status as of the moment as this has been escalated to a higher management regionally.

 

We shall keep you update immediately as soon as we have a response.

 

Thank you.

Best regards,

Jhade

 

I will continue to press my company to do the right thing and move up the ladder of authority with each passing day. My work day is about to begin, and I plan to address my company CEO who is Taiwanese. While my company has this office in China, they are in fact, technically a Japanese company. They are listed as Japanese for stock purposes, even though the founders of the company are Taiwanese. It's a very large international company with offices all over the world. Like many large companies, they sponsor fund raising events for under-privileged people in some regions of the world. They request donations from company personnel, and then promise to match the givings. They have done this in the Philippines, Africa, and China. I will confront them about this kind giving to strangers and request an explanation about how cold they treat their own. Honestly, I don't expect them to budge on this, but I will at least get the chance for a few parting body shots. Course, it may seem only pathetic to them.

Edited May 7, 2012 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

Jesse, that's awesome! Congrats! I hope this situation continues to improve at this pace!

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

Jesse, that's awesome! Congrats! I hope this situation continues to improve at this pace!

 

Thanks AM. Receiving that letter from the insurance company does lend a little credibility to what I have been trying like hell to communicate to my company regarding the quality and availability of comprehensive medical care in China. And, it really pisses them off too. What is really pissing me off about this is my company's posture toward all of this. No matter how many times I try to pare down their flowery language into tangible things, they keep responding with flowery language, and try to pass the buck on the Chinese government.

 

They continue to hate it when I tell them:

 

1. You are attempting to subvert my ability to get medical treatment outside China

2. You have threatened to release me from employment if I choose leave China mainland for medical treatment.

3. You claim you will be released from any legal responsibility to me for work related injury if I leave China mainland for medical care

4. You claim that you can do nothing to change this because this is what Chinese law requires you to do

 

This is a real-life example of how Chinese people, will refuse to take responsibility for things that don't make them look good. Now, I am not saying that all Chinese people do this, but a significant number of them behave this way.

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

The strangest damned thing happened today. My company said that I misunderstood them. My treatment in Australia has been approved, and I will receive full benefits, employment, monthly salary, and compensation. The earliest I can leave however is May 24, due to a residence permit and work permit renewal process. Both of these documents are due to expire and must be renewed before I leave.

 

I posted about the 'misunderstanding' thing in another thread, but this turnaround is by far the biggest face saving change I have seen. Of course, according to them, the misunderstanding is my fault. But hey, it's their face, and my leg. I'm not done with this. My managers were supposed to be my advocates. Instead, they behaved as adversaries. I suspect that a top level person stepped in and learned about what was going on.

 

Before my injury, I heard from several people that China labor laws were much stronger than US laws, especially when related to work related injury. Today, I was sent the following links to China law regarding work related injury. Interesting that it's only coming to light now.

 

 

English Version_ 2008 version

http://www.laodonghetong.org/1032a9.html

Chinese Version_2011 reversion

http://www.ft22.com/baoxiantiaoli/2011-1/1958.html

Edited May 8, 2012 by JiangsuExpat (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

Finally some good news Jesse. I'm happy for ya. Let's hope next photos you show of your leg shows your recovery.

 

Ya know, under other circumstances a free trip to New South Wales, Sydney in particular would be one of the greatest adventures I could think of. I'm not much into citys but Sydney has so much going on, is so vibrant, and it's one of the CLEANEST city's I've ever seen. You said a recovery time of 9-12 months. Man, if you get to do much of that recovery time in Sydney I hope you can get down to the opera house and it's harbour where the Sydney Harbor Bridge and Circular Quay are ;ocated. They have ferries to points all over the extended city. Then there are The Blue mountains out the track west of the city. Some very spectacular sights out there and the smell of the gum trees, eucyaliptus, is everywhere in the air.

 

I've got many life long friends in Australia....Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, Cairns....you are making me homesick with your trip down under.

 

Well, the main point here is really all about your getting fixed up and finally starting to heal. If you can't see much of Oz this time, it is going to be there a long time should you decide to go down for a visit to enjoy the glory and magic of Oz. You're heading into the winter time of the winter time of year in Australia. Sydney gets a bit of chill in the evenings but the days warm up quickly and are usually brilliant..

 

Good luck

 

tsap seui

Edited May 8, 2012 by tsap seui (see edit history)