Chinese Banking

[2mike&jin]

Back in January I wrote a ditty on extracting RMB denominated funds from China. The usual methods of BofA Card, Union Pay, were cited. What was outstanding was whether or not I could successfully move "larger" amounts of USD out of China. I finally am able to report on those efforts.

 

As a review; while my wife and I were visiting China last November, I wanted to try and "update" our banking accounts. For me it was impossible to manage with only a Passbook account and an RMB ATM card. We bank at Bank of China. We opened an ATM account able to hold multiple currencies, with linkages to RMB denominated BOC CD's, with online access and management via the internet. The ATM card was a world-wide Union Pay capable ATM card. The ATM card worked and we were able to convert RMB to USD at "most all" ATM machines and some would give us up to a $1000.00 USD. The cost was nominal but there were conversion fees, about %1, and ATM fees - about $3.00, and a couple of $5.00 hits depending on machine. We are told that one can take up to $20,000 USD a year out of the BOC via this method. What is not clear is if this goes against the $50K USD conversion total for the account holder.

 

What remained was a test to see if we could in fact move larger amounts of money 'out of China - at will'. It appeared that the online access screens would in fact allow one to effect a Wire Transfer between the BOC account and the US account. I was able to input all the information - it all looked great - and when I told it to transfer the money - a final SECURITY screen was presented and it required two pieces of information: (1) A random seed generated from a token and (2) a secret code sent via a text to the phone number of the account holder based in China. Well I thought I was set, I had the TOKEN GENERATOR in my hand and my wife's Chinese telephone in my other hand. I requested the text - and nothing arrived. I sent her phone a text and it was there immediately. Ok, something wasn't working. My wife called the Bank Manager in China - only to be told that the phone text message thingy didn't work and that we should send the ATM card to the brother in China - and he could come in an send us as much money as we wanted - as many times as we wanted. Ok it was a plan.

 

Well, I'm here to tell you that is in fact what has happened. For each Chinese ID card, (his, his wife's, his mother in-law, someone in the bank waiting room, etc) that he stands in front of the window at the bank - they will convert RMB to USD, up to the $50,000 USD limit per year. So, the first conversion and wire transfer test resulted in the following;

 

$50,000.00 Sent, conversion rate on the day of transfer about 6.30+ to 1 USD.

 

Cost at bank to Convert: $285.00

Cost at bank to Send WIre: $ 2.38

Rotten Thieves at Mellon Bank $ 15.00

My Bank $ 0.00

Total Cost to Move $50K $302.38

 

By anyone's math - it was about .6% to convert and move. A pretty low cost situation. So I've had a couple of shots at this and it all seems to be like getting pickles out of a jar (or going to bed with a women) the first time it is difficult the rest are easy. So the urban legend about the ability to move money out of China has some fact and some fiction. I'm also told, that if you sell something like a house, all you have to do is go to the Bank, show your sales/closing documents, and you can convert the entire amount at one shot with one ID card. And they say MOVE it in one shot out of the country --- only time will tell if this is fiction or fact, or if the rules will change.

[dan1984]

Great info. Saving this for potential future use.

[Shanghai John]

My wife has between $80,000 and $95,000 in a Bank of China account back in China. She will be returning this summer to visit for a month and we'd like to transfer that money back to the United States at that time. Based on what you've said, she should be able to knock this out in one day if she shows up to the bank with her sister or friend?

 

Does it have to be to one of the "linked" Bank of America accounts I've read about, or can it be any valid US account with the proper SWIFT code and account number?

 

Very interesting post, I've been browsing around all morning to look for info and who knew that my old friend CFL would have recent info on this topic!

[2mike&jin]

My wife has between $80,000 and $95,000 in a Bank of China account back in China. She will be returning this summer to visit for a month and we'd like to transfer that money back to the United States at that time. Based on what you've said, she should be able to knock this out in one day if she shows up to the bank with her sister or friend? She can in fact knock it out in one visit. No Problems, as long as neither has converted more than $50K that "Calendar Year".

 

Does it have to be to one of the "linked" Bank of America accounts I've read about, or can it be any valid US account with the proper SWIFT code and account number? If she's standing there nothing special is needed, just her Passbook and ID card, plus the information. She will need ALL of the information required of your US bank/account to get it transferred. This usually includes; 13 or 14 digit SWIFT (i forget exactly), if you have a short SWIFT, just add XXX on the back of it to indicate it is the main branch. I.E. not very many banks in the US have a SWIFT CODE. Our bank does not, but they use Mellon Bank in NEW YORK as the intermediary. So you need the "long swift code", the address of the bank attached to the swift code, if this is not your bank, then you need your BANK's ACCOUNT number at the SWIFT CODE BANK, your Bank's address, and then of course you need you/your wife's BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER, and YOUR ADDRESS. I also stick on PHONE NUMBERS - Just in Case. I would advise your wife to do this early in the visit and not at the last moment, in the event the BANK forgets a valuable piece of information and she has to do it a second time. They have a tendency to skip steps in the chain of transfer - so she has to insure they do it correctly. But, in the end she can do it!

Edited April 26, 2012 by 2mike&jin (see edit history)

[knloregon]

THANKS MIKE ~ !

 

Another of your great threads updating money transfers PRC/USA Some of the best info on CFL, IMHO. Is it your opinion that B of C is the best conduit for this? For instance, several years ago, HSBC very much wanted a piece of this action --- any thoughts about other ways to get money converted--- and out of China?

[2mike&jin]

Another of your great threads updating money transfers PRC/USA Some of the best info on CFL, IMHO. Is it your opinion that B of C is the best conduit for this? For instance, several years ago, HSBC very much wanted a piece of this action --- any thoughts about other ways to get money converted--- and out of China?

 

 

Sorry - I was traveling and didn't see this. No, I don't think Bank of China has any special characteristics in this regard. When I lived in China, I interviewed the HSBC folks, specifically for their Premier Accounts - which I viewed as being the easy way to do anything. They stopped me "DEAD IN MY TRACKS", with - you must deposit $50K US, and you get no INTEREST on the money -- all to be with their Premier group which was touted to be a breeze for money movement. My friend, who also uses HSBC (But doesn't move large amounts) was required to put $100K in the HSBC account in Wuhan, but he is a medical Dr. and didn't seem to be concerned with any of the details other than he has an account that he can access world-wide- I can't report on larger sums of money via HSBC, but I believe it to be the same limits - only slightly easier. When living in CHina I also used CCB, (The BofA link) and they were no easier or harder to work with than BofC, and my wife has all of our utilities paid via auto pay with them - again, they all seem to be playing with the same set of banking rules. What I think is a varying component is the "type of services" and "types of Automated accounts" that can be accessed via the internet. This was important for me as the passbook only account tools just didn't get it when it came to tax time or transaction time.

 

Other ways to get money out of CHina. There are several schemes that have been posted on some of the Ex-pat web-sites. They have varying degrees of of "gray" in the transactions. After all my research, living in China, and moving what I would consider "larger sums" to and from China, I see only 4 viable ways of getting money "out" of China (1) Bank WIre transfers, as outlined in this thread, (2) Chinese BANK world-wide UNION PAY ATM (Current Limit $20K year), (3) Having a wife - convert whatever amount - and hand carry each time she visited (Must report to US at POE amounts over $10K USD - no real limit), (4) Work a FOREX scheme via Shenzhen-Hong Kong Banks (too fast for my slow old brain). For me I needed a low cost, legal, easy, and "farm logic" way to get the money moved. Wire Transfers via the Chinese Bank gave me the greatest level of comfort.

 

Take Care.

[Shanghai John]

My wife called Bank of China today to ask about getting this $85,000 to America. Apparently they were telling her that she had to visit some kind of government office and go through a bunch of baloney with them to do it. Stuff like, declaring what the money was from, and what it would be used for, stuff like that. Did you run into any of this? Any ideas on how to circumvent, or if she was just talking to the wrong person?