No Plan, No Hurry

[The Irreverend]

My wife and I are in an interesting, and what from I can tell possibly unique situation. We live together in Beijing and have been married for eight months. We have known each other for a couple of years and I pretty well understand the visa process. I have avoided plunging into it because based on reports I have likened it to having simultaneous root canal, colonoscopy and IRS audit.

 

The good news for us is that we are in absolutely no hurry to visit the US and currently have no specific plan to do so. We're thinking maybe (just maybe) we will go sometime next year. If we do it would just be a visit; we will not be returning to live. My wife is interested in attending a professional conference, but that's just talk right now.

 

Since we were in no hurry I figured I would go the I-130 route, but no matter what route I investigate they seem to assume a specific plan to immigrate to the US. In my dream I was just thinking why not get the paperwork out of the way, get her a green card and then we would use it later (like getting a driver's license without owning a car).

 

How should I approach this whole thing? (If you are reading this then it means that I have finally at least taken the step to post to this forum rather than just once again throwing my hands in the air and walking away realizing that it's just not worth it.)

[dnoblett]

Two options:

 

• Have your spouse attempt to get a B-2 Visitors visa, lay it out to the interviewing officer that you are grounded in China and have absolutely no plans to immigrate at this time.
  Provide evidence of ties to China, like letter from employer, assets frozen in a bank, apartment or home, etc...

• Apply for an immigrant visa, file an I-130 petition, this will be costly for fees, and paperwork. Also have to show maintained US Domicile for the immigrant sponsorship, and provide past 3 year's IRS returns for the spouse visa.

 

 

The downsides of the two:

 

• Can get denied the B-2 visitors visa, and be out the visa fee.

• Spouse visa will result in a green-card, however this has it's issues.
  • Green-card is for lawful permanent residence in the USA, it is NOT a "Permanent visa" allowing residing in a different country other then the USA, if Homeland Security suspects not living in the USA they will revoke it, and/or deny entry to the USA later.
  • I have seen a few play the game of living overseas, making one or two trips home to the USA each year using a green-card, however the POE can catch onto this seeing exit and entry times.
  • Green-card may be a two year kind, which requires additional paperwork at 2 years of residence in the USA.

 

 

Best route is to apply for B-2, and later if you ultimately plan on moving to the USA, at that time apply for a spouse visa (IR-1)

 

Note: The best time to get a B-2 would have been before marriage, but it has been done before, after marriage.

 

 

 

 

http://beijing.usemb...howtoapply.html

 

More about green card:

Abandoning Permanent Resident Status

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

 

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
• Declare yourself a “nonimmigrant” on your tax returns

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

 

http://www.uscis.gov...000082ca60aRCRD

Edited January 1, 2012 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[TLB]

Dan is spot on, as usual. You and your wife's situation is similar to mine in the sense that we don't really know where we'll end up living either. We went the immigration route for her so she could come here for a while until I retire (maybe a year from now). I told her during not to tell the interviewing officer, if he asked why she wanted to immigrate to the US, "but I don't really want to; I'm just going there for a while and then we don't know."

 

There really needs to be another category of visa besides "short time visitor" and "immigrant" for people who can't use the student or business visas. My wife and I just want to go back and forth as we please, with me remaining an American citizen and she retaining her Chinese citizenship; it seems that's too difficult a concept for the respective governments...

 

If you can get a short-time visa using existing categories, that will be great; otherwise, as you know, the visas discussed here (and that you're contemplating) assume immigration and perm resident plans in the US (though you really don't have to spend the whole time in the US to satisfy the criteria).

 

So, the process takes 8-12 months, costs some $, and if you succeed the first time, I think you have to go to the US within 6 months. That gives you almost a year and a half from now before you'd have to make that decision. If you went that route and then lost the visa due to not going to the US (or being declared a non-resident after that), I don't know if that would influence any future visitor visas.

 

So in the end, I don't think your plan of "let's get the visa now so we'll have it if we decide later to go to the US" might not be the best approach, unless you're pretty sure spending at least half a year there on average for the foreseeable future is a good possibility.

[Mick]

I can relate to your situation as it mirrors the one my wife and I were in, albeit many, many years ago. I was living and working in China (starting in 1997) and we met shortly after my arrival. We fell in love and decided to spend the rest of our lives together. We began exploring various options. At that time, Li had no interest in immigrating and, to be honest, I loved my work in China, loved living there, and we had no interest in obtaining a visa at that time. We would have liked for her to be able to go for a visit with me, but in those days, a visitors visa was damn near impossible, especially for someone as young as she was (25 at the time). So we just stayed put. We finally applied for visa in 2001 (sent in initial paperwork two weeks before 9/11). Bad timing, indeed. Long story short, it took us until March 2003 to have visa in hand. Things had become very dicey by then as we lived in Guangdong, near Ground Zero of the SARS epidemic.

 

Any specifics I could give you regarding the visa process we endured would be very dated and irrelevant by now. Dan has given you a very good analysis of the options and he is one of the most knowledgable individuals I know when it comes to these matters. You can take what he says to the bank. I wish you much happiness and future success in whatever you decide.

 

BTW - If you toss in a prostate exam, what you said about the root canal, colonoscopy, and IRS audit pretty much sums it up.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Mick (see edit history)

[honeybun]

I like your picture. Good looking couple.

 

As others said, it's not realistic to maintain a GreenCard and live abroad.

 

My wife and I are facing a related dilemma, except we're already in the US. We've been together here for just about 3 years, and we will soon want to go back to China to live for at least several years. My wife is going to need to get her citizenship first, which it seems in brief requires 3 years in the US on a GC and then around 6 months in country while waiting for the application to be processed.

[dnoblett]

I like your picture. Good looking couple.

 

As others said, it's not realistic to maintain a GreenCard and live abroad.

 

My wife and I are facing a related dilemma, except we're already in the US. We've been together here for just about 3 years, and we will soon want to go back to China to live for at least several years. My wife is going to need to get her citizenship first, which it seems in brief requires 3 years in the US on a GC and then around 6 months in country while waiting for the application to be processed.

Yep 4-6 months is about right for Citizenship, my wife submitted N-400 paperwork 9/23, and will oath on 1/12 (Just under 4 months)

 

But yes 3 years residency continuously married to same US citizen is the minimum requirement for application for citizenship.

[The Irreverend]

Don, thanks for taking the time to lay it out. After reading what you wrote last night I just shut off my computer feeling once again defeated. I came back today planning to reply and was somehow heartened by seeing so many other replies. It appears that we are not the only ones in our situation.

 

Before I begin I want to thank honeybun for the compliment. I assume that most of you recognize my avatar as the official marriage photo. The picture of me is pretty good, but Lucia is far more beautiful in person. She is an amazing person who works as a freelance author, Buddhist teacher, and western astrologer. Her micro blog is followed by over 20,000 people. I am constantly amazed that she shares her life with me. Well, just look for yourself...

 

http://churchoftheporch.org/Dev/DUMPER.NSF/0/5e8bbdecd3bd085f48257979002f7af5/$FILE/7%20Cropped%204%20Small%202.jpg

 

Back to Don. I looked into the B-2 long before we got married. We married to resolve issues with my own visa here in China and to relieve local cultural and family pressure. But it doesn't matter, since I don't think she would qualify then or now. She is by no means rich, owns no property, and as I mentioned above she does not a job in the conventional sense. Also, she has steadfastly refused to bend our truth in the slightest. This is partially due to the fact that she has little interest in visiting the US and absolutely no interest in living there. And forget changing citizenship, she is proud to be Han race Chinese. I respect that.

 

I am sure that this attitude would surprise most of the arrogant bureaucrats running the country today. It also has surprised all of my friends who was sure she was just a green digger. I assume that's why there is no easy option for people in our situation. How could you not want to be an American?

[dnoblett]

Actually it is quite understandable not wishing to immigrate to the USA at this time with the way the economy has been.

 

What I was digging at was you the US citizen provide ties to China too.

 

The consulates issued over one million visas in China last year, they are not as hard to get as you think.

 

About freezing assets, I beleive Kyle did that, money tied up in a Chinese bank with letter that money remain frozen while out of China.

 

Lastly becoming a US citizen takes several years of residency in tha USA and becoming a US citizen would never change the fact my wife is still Chinese.

Edited January 2, 2012 by dnoblett (see edit history)

[The Irreverend]

Hmmm...I didn't know that my situation played into anything. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

I have been always been convinced that our situation would pass the "reasonable man" test. If it was possible for a case worker to visit us and get to know us then they would see what was happening and issue a permanent pass. Especially considering that Lucia is amazingly charming and speaks excellent English. (Since I can't help but gush over her I will pass along that she graduated at the top of her high school class in Rizhao, graduated from BFSU with a degree in Economics and then graduated with a masters in business from Sun Yat Sen university in Guangzhou).

 

I have always been confused whether I could be present for any of the visa interviews. I know that if they would talk to the two of us together the story would be clear.

 

Again, as far as assets go there just aren't any, but I have evidence that she can get people to give her money, and could get anyone from the garbage man to President Hu to vouch for her.

 

Finally, I am not casting any aspersions on anyone who went the citizenship route. I am fiercely proud of my country, but I honestly hadn't seen any advantage in citizenship until I realized that US citizens travel around the globe with less restrictions than anyone else. My point was really that most Americans are so arrogant that they assume everyone wants to be us. Even Chinese people have constantly asked my wife why we haven't moved back there yet.

 

Don, thanks for hanging in with me. You are the reason that I am proud of my country: We have the some truly special people (like you).

[honeybun]

Yep 4-6 months is about right for Citizenship, my wife submitted N-400 paperwork 9/23, and will oath on 1/12 (Just under 4 months)

thanks, dnoblett. and congratulations! it's encouraging that it can be so fast

[dnoblett]

Hmmm...I didn't know that my situation played into anything. Thanks for the encouragement.

 

I have been always been convinced that our situation would pass the "reasonable man" test. If it was possible for a case worker to visit us and get to know us then they would see what was happening and issue a permanent pass. Especially considering that Lucia is amazingly charming and speaks excellent English. (Since I can't help but gush over her I will pass along that she graduated at the top of her high school class in Rizhao, graduated from BFSU with a degree in Economics and then graduated with a masters in business from Sun Yat Sen university in Guangzhou).

 

I have always been confused whether I could be present for any of the visa interviews. I know that if they would talk to the two of us together the story would be clear.

 

Again, as far as assets go there just aren't any, but I have evidence that she can get people to give her money, and could get anyone from the garbage man to President Hu to vouch for her.

 

Finally, I am not casting any aspersions on anyone who went the citizenship route. I am fiercely proud of my country, but I honestly hadn't seen any advantage in citizenship until I realized that US citizens travel around the globe with less restrictions than anyone else. My point was really that most Americans are so arrogant that they assume everyone wants to be us. Even Chinese people have constantly asked my wife why we haven't moved back there yet.

 

Don, thanks for hanging in with me. You are the reason that I am proud of my country: We have the some truly special people (like you).

The interviewing officer at the consulate does consider the US Citizen's residency and domicile in the case of a married couple, you can provide ties to China as evidence of no immigrations intent. When it comes to a B-2, the primary thing the interviewing officer is looking for is immigrations intent, if you can prove otherwise, then the odds of getting a visa is quite good.

 

Again the rate of denial is much lower now than in the past.

 

The consulate provides good info:

 

http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/niv-frequently-asked-questions.html#4