Taiwan is a Province of the PRC

[Randy W]

Why don¡¯t people of Taiwan identify with China ¡°now¡±? ¡ª Trying to answer from Taiwan¡¯s perspective. žéʲüN̨ž³ÈË¡±¬FÔÚ¡±²»ÕJͬ¡ºÖЇø¡»ÄØ? ¡ªÔ‡ˆDÒǪ̂ž³µÄÓ^üc»Ø´ð¡£

 

Because in 1995 when Taiwan¡¯s President Lee Tung-hui visited the US and in 1996 planned the first ever direct election of the ROC President and Vice President, the PRC considered these events to be acts for Taiwan-independence. PRC thus tried to interfere the election by holding missile tests in 1995 and 1996. The missiles landed near the two largest ports of Taiwan, Keelung and Kaohsiung. At the same time, the People¡¯s Liberation Army held numerous military exercises as part of the scheme to intimidate the Taiwanese electorate. China Central Television (CCTV) broadcasted segments of the military exercises daily to build the scene as if war against Taiwan was going to start.

 

The ROC Military had entered combat mode during that time, while many countries were prepared to evacuate their nationals. For people of Taiwan, we were just electing a President, and PRC responded so aggressively. This sent a message: PRC is an invader.

 

. . .

 

Among the PRC propaganda, one frequent line is that ¡°Chinese don¡¯t fight against Chinese¡±. But what was demonstrated in 1995 and 1996 by the PRC military showed that PRC didn¡¯t really view people of Taiwan as brothers and sister, or ¡°Chinese¡±. It was because we were not Chinese, so the PRC government reacted this way.

 

Because of the action of PRC, people of Taiwan were united against the PRC, which significantly facilitated the identity shift. Lee also won the election that year by a clear majority.

 

So even under the roof of PRC, Taiwanese get the clear message that ¡°Taiwanese are not Chinese¡±. Even 40 years of brainwash by the KMT regime is removed completely. And this is one impressive achievement of the Chinese Communist Party.

 

. . .

 

And, if you are a guy, and you are trying to win the heart of a girl. You try to please her in every way possible, while at the same time impose violence upon her. Do you think you will ever win her heart?

 

. . .

 

the image of Chinese people is said to have traveled a thousand miles and is never coming back.

 

So part of the reason that Taiwanese decrease their affiliation with ¡°China¡± is because that PRC has ruined the reputation of ¡°China¡±.

 

. . .

 

(In Taiwan) One is taught to be polite since a young age, so he/she is used to saying ¡°thank you¡± and naturally receive a ¡°you¡¯re welcome¡±. ¡°Please¡± and ¡°I¡¯m sorry/excuse me¡± are all frequently in his/her vocabulary.

 

So rather saying that Taiwanese don¡¯t identify themselves as Chinese, we should say that Taiwanese don¡¯t identify with life in China. They are used to the way of living in Taiwan, and are in love with this way of living. This is why Taiwanese identify themselves as Taiwanese.

[Mike62356]

uh huh... and what does your wife say?.......

Edited December 11, 2011 by Mike62356 (see edit history)

[Randy W]

uh huh... and what does your wife say?.......

 

 

Taiwan is a Province of the PRC but They are Foreigners

 

Not sure if she'd say that they're foreigners, but that pretty well sums up the P.R.C. attitude.

 

The article is about the view from the other side of the strait.

 

Why do you ask?

[knloregon]

"...So even under the roof of PRC, Taiwanese get the clear message that ¡°Taiwanese are not Chinese¡±. Even 40 years of brainwash by the KMT regime is removed completely. And this is one impressive achievement of the Chinese Communist Party...."

 

Really?

 

So why do the Taiwanese keep electing KMT candidates to the leadership? (as is currently the case).

 

Chinese Father in law, devout Communist and former military officer was forced to part ways with his best friend from his youth who was a Nationalist, at the time of the civil war---and even as Father in law was leading his troops to liberate Nationalist held villages in Guangzhou, and his friend was forced to flee with his two wives to Taiwan. But they always kept in touch ---as Chinese--

His friend was always a little jealous of the huge advances in China under the Communists, (which never occurred under the KMT) and Father in law was always a little jealous of his friend's two wives.

[DennisLeiqin]

 

His friend was always a little jealous of the huge advances in China under the Communists...

Yes, of course, so says Baba.

[knloregon]

Good point Dennis

[Randy W]

"...So even under the roof of PRC, Taiwanese get the clear message that “Taiwanese are not Chinese”. Even 40 years of brainwash by the KMT regime is removed completely. And this is one impressive achievement of the Chinese Communist Party...."

 

Really?

 

So why do the Taiwanese keep electing KMT candidates to the leadership? (as is currently the case).

 

. . .

 

The article pretty well explains that, no?

 

Together with the People First Party and Chinese New Party, the KMT forms what is known as the Taiwanese Pan-Blue coalition, which supports eventual unification with the mainland. However, the KMT has been forced to moderate its stance by advocating the political and legal status quo of modern Taiwan. The KMT accepts a "One China Principle" - it officially considers that there is only one China and that the Republic of China (not the People's Republic of China) is its legitimate government. However, since 2008, in order to ease tensions with the People's Republic of China, the KMT endorses the "three nos" policy as defined by Ma Ying-jeou - no unification, no independence and no use of force

Edited December 12, 2011 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Mike62356]

uh huh... and what does your wife say?.......

 

 

Taiwan is a Province of the PRC but They are Foreigners

 

Not sure if she'd say that they're foreigners, but that pretty well sums up the P.R.C. attitude.

 

The article is about the view from the other side of the strait.

 

Why do you ask?

just wondered because my Lady says that Taiwan is China's and won't hear anything about it being otherwise, I am amused by this with her

[Randy W]

uh huh... and what does your wife say?.......

 

 

Taiwan is a Province of the PRC but They are Foreigners

 

Not sure if she'd say that they're foreigners, but that pretty well sums up the P.R.C. attitude.

 

The article is about the view from the other side of the strait.

 

Why do you ask?

just wondered because my Lady says that Taiwan is China's and won't hear anything about it being otherwise, I am amused by this with her

 

 

Several interesting aspects of that - it's a province where the residents are all foreigners, like the article points out, one with complete political and economic independence, and one that the US sells arms to, while the PRC politely wishes we wouldn't do that - more than a little contradictory there.

 

But one which allows itself to remain under the thumb of the PRC in international politics.

[Mick]

The whole Taiwan issue is highly sensitive with many Mainland Chinese, who see it primarily as a breakaway Province. In terms of the history, it was to Taiwan that the Nationalist Chinese forces and government fled after being "defeated" by Mao and his army in 1949. I recall that Taiwan, along with Tibet and Tianamman, were three subjects I never discussed in the classroom and, in fact, was told not to by the officials at the first school I worked at, located in Hefei. Interestingly, I knew an ex pat there who wound up being fired from his teaching position and told to leave the country for repeatedly bringing up the issue in his classroom. He was asked on at least two occasions to stop discussing it in public venues, but he kept it up because he felt like he was entitled to "free speech." I remember meeting with him and a couple of other ex pats for coffee and we tried to make the point that he had no free speech in China as this was not his country. He refused to listen and ultimately he paid the price.

[Randy W]

The whole Taiwan issue is highly sensitive with many Mainland Chinese, who see it primarily as a breakaway Province. In terms of the history, it was to Taiwan that the Nationalist Chinese forces and government fled after being "defeated" by Mao and his army in 1949. I recall that Taiwan, along with Tibet and Tianamman, were three subjects I never discussed in the classroom and, in fact, was told not to by the officials at the first school I worked at, located in Hefei. Interestingly, I knew an ex pat there who wound up being fired from his teaching position and told to leave the country for repeatedly bringing up the issue in his classroom. He was asked on at least two occasions to stop discussing it in public venues, but he kept it up because he felt like he was entitled to "free speech." I remember meeting with him and a couple of other ex pats for coffee and we tried to make the point that he had no free speech in China as this was not his country. He refused to listen and ultimately he paid the price.

 

 

It's true - "free speech" is guaranteed by China's constitution - under the "leadership of the communist party"

 

That one phrase is the only mention made of the party, but it endows it with immense extra-legal power.

 

Nobody's looking over your shoulder anymore, nor do they care what you say - as long as you're not deemed "disruptive to social harmony".

[knloregon]

The article pretty well explains that, no?

 

Wikipedia said:

Together with the People First Party and Chinese New Party, the KMT forms what is known as the Taiwanese Pan-Blue coalition, which supports eventual unification with the mainland. However, the KMT has been forced to moderate its stance by advocating the political and legal status quo of modern Taiwan. The KMT accepts a "One China Principle" - it officially considers that there is only one China and that the Republic of China (not the People's Republic of China) is its legitimate government. However, since 2008, in order to ease tensions with the People's Republic of China, the KMT endorses the "three nos" policy as defined by Ma Ying-jeou - no unification, no independence and no use of force

 

No.

 

Randy, you focus on the last sentence, and neglect the rest of the paragraph. If the KMT's position is that it accepts the: "One China Principle" , that pretty much means eventual unification. But why should the KMT be any clearer than the US's Foreign Policy towards Taiwan? ---which since Nixon, also supports the "One China Principle", and has been reiterated by every US President since then.

 

Its all about as clear as mud.

[Randy W]

The article pretty well explains that, no?

 

Wikipedia said:

Together with the People First Party and Chinese New Party, the KMT forms what is known as the Taiwanese Pan-Blue coalition, which supports eventual unification with the mainland. However, the KMT has been forced to moderate its stance by advocating the political and legal status quo of modern Taiwan. The KMT accepts a "One China Principle" - it officially considers that there is only one China and that the Republic of China (not the People's Republic of China) is its legitimate government. However, since 2008, in order to ease tensions with the People's Republic of China, the KMT endorses the "three nos" policy as defined by Ma Ying-jeou - no unification, no independence and no use of force

 

No.

 

Randy, you focus on the last sentence, and neglect the rest of the paragraph. If the KMT's position is that it accepts the: "One China Principle" , that pretty much means eventual unification. But why should the KMT be any clearer than the US's Foreign Policy towards Taiwan? ---which since Nixon, also supports the "One China Principle", and has been reiterated by every US President since then.

 

Its all about as clear as mud.

 

 

Yes - basically, a resistance to the communist party on the part of the people of Taiwan, while at the same time desiring eventual unification with China - for now, no, no, no. And for now, more than willing to tolerate the PRC's thumb over any participation in international politics.

 

Not sure if we're disagreeing about anything here. Your question was, "So why do the Taiwanese keep electing KMT candidates to the leadership? (as is currently the case). " Isn't that answered?

Edited December 13, 2011 by Randy W (see edit history)

[knloregon]

I guess we aren't in disagreement Randy, perhaps the optimum word (internal and external) regarding the relationship between Taiwan and PRC is ambiguity.

[griz326]

Kissenger's book discusses this at length. In a nutshell, Mao's goal was to restore China to the borders of some dynasty (don't remember which one), but that included Tibet and Taiwan.

 

The Taiwan issue was and remains a very delicate issue in US/China relations.

 

Lao Po considers Taiwan to be part of China, just like Tibet.

 

The problems started in Tibet back in the 40s when the CIA stirred up trouble to de-stabilize Mao. Tibet and greater China were unified under the Mongols sometime in the 1200s.

 

Quite a few Chinese have compared the free Tibet movement to be similar to Lincoln fighting to keep the union together during the Civil War.