Documents submitted with I-130 also needed at interview?

[David11]

My wife and I recently mailed back the required material from Packet 3 and are now waiting for Packet 4.

On the checklist of things required on the IV Instruction Packet is her Birth Certificate and Divorce Certificate. When we DCF'd for her CR-1 in Beijing the original notarized translations were requested and kept at the time of submitting the I-130. We have the original notarized Police Certificate, original notarized Marriage Certificate (we got extra copies), and photocopies of the notarized Birth and Divorce Cert's (as well as the original Chinese Divorce Cert book), but we don't have an additional notarized Birth or Divorce Cert beyond what we submitted with the I-130. Do we need to go back to her home town and get additional copies of these for her interview? We had planned to get additional Birth Certificate's later anyway but not until our last visit to the in-laws before heading to the USA which will likely be a month or two after her interview.

Also a question about the I-864 and "most recent year's tax returns" - I have found it a nightmare to try to e-file taxes while married to someone who does not have a SSN or ITIN. Getting an ITIN for my wife sounds like it is going to require a trip to Beijing and/or a slow process via postal mail, neither of which are ideal right now and will be avoided if at all possible. I have lived in China for two years and last year simply got a 6-month extension on my taxes so I could qualify for the foreign earned income exclusion. Being that I was still out of the country at the end of 2010 I could file for a 6 month extension for this year also, putting my deadline for filing in October, which would be, God willing, 3-4 months after my wife and I enter the US and she has a SS#. However, the instruction letter that comes with P4 (or at least the pdf link online) states "the most recent year’s tax returns. For example, if the I-864 form was signed in 2008, bring the sponsor’s 2007 tax returns" are required. My I-864 is going to be signed in 2011. Does that make 2010's tax return an absolute requirement even if I would not have otherwise filed 2010 taxes by interview time? I have 2009's returns which I filed last year, as well as a transcript from 2007 and 2008. I have 2008, 2009, and 2010 from my joint sponsor.

[Kyle]

Jingjing and I submitted her birth certificate and our marriage cert (white books) in Beijing and then again in Guangzhou. My wife submitted her police cert/medical only in Guangzhou. They took the white books both times.

 

Beijing

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39043&hl=

 

Guangzhou

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39544&view=findpost&p=536147

 

Most likely you'll need more white book birth certificates when you guys go to the States - if it were me, I'd probably get them before going to Guz. That being said, Guz had absolutely everything we submitted at the time of our Beijing I-130 petition. So, in theory, yes, you should be fine - if they didn't lose anything. At the very least, I'd bring photocopies of what you submitted in Beijing.

 

For our taxes, we took photocopies of the past three years that we had. I do not think, at least this is what I've read, that Guz will require 2010 until April (or close to it). Maybe someone else can give more insight into this.

[dnoblett]

Kyle is spot on with regards to DCF, if this were a NVC case where you scan and emailed docs to NVC then yes bring what was scanned to interview, in fact that is a requirement for NVC electronic cases.

 

As for tax return, if interview happens before the deadline in April you need to just say have not filed, however if interview is within a week or so before Tax day or after and you have not filed, be prepared to show an extension request. A good excuse is so can come to USA and get spouse SSN and file a joint return without having to get ITIN.

[David11]

At the insistence of my wife I contacted GUZ on the issue of whether or not we need another original notarized Birth Certificate and according to them I do in fact need an additional original BC to submit at interview time despite having already submitted one to USCIS in Beijing. By some miracle we have extra copies of the photo she used last summer when getting her BC, so after a phone conversation with her hometown notary this morning, we mailed him a few things and a fee and he's supposedly going to mail us two more Birth Certs and two more Divorce Certs.

 

Now she has a complete lack of faith in my ability to get things right *sigh*. She started to do her own research online now and has stumbled across someone who has said they needed a total of four (4) original notarized Birth Certificate's to go through the process. Assuming the notary comes through (we should know by next week), we would have two BC's in-hand at the time of the interview and one has been previously submitted during the original filing. Can you see any conceivable reason why someone, also a DCF in Beijing (from 2008) would need four? One was given to Beijing and one will be submitted in GZ. I can't see how any more than two would be required here. The third, according to my understanding, is for things state-side after arrival.

[dnoblett]

I would be getting at least two, one for GUZ and one to keep for the future.

[David11]

We are getting two more, one for GUZ and one for later in the US, the concern is she read somewhere that someone needed four, which would be three more. I love her to death and sometimes two heads are better than one, but ugh

 

Your thoughts on the tax issue were my exact thoughts as well. I contacted GUZ about that also just to try to be sure but have not yet heard a reply.

[Randy W]

We are getting two more, one for GUZ and one for later in the US, the concern is she read somewhere that someone needed four, which would be three more. I love her to death and sometimes two heads are better than one, but ugh

 

Your thoughts on the tax issue were my exact thoughts as well. I contacted GUZ about that also just to try to be sure but have not yet heard a reply.

 

 

 

The VO can (and has on occasion) demand that you produce last year's (2010) tax returns. Be as prepared as you reasonably can on that issue.

[David11]

GUZ says it's the VO's call at the time of the interview also, ugh.

 

What would you guys do in this situation (other than having seen this coming and not getting yourself into this situation ?

 

My wife doesn't have an ITIN/SSN. Beijing IRS says getting an ITIN often requires up to two months, and going there in person vs sending documents by mail would make no difference for that. The most recent timelines have interviews at 6-10 weeks after mailing back the P3 putting our interview most likely between late March to late April. The IRS rep suggested sending my federal return as well as my wife's ITIN application together to the IRS office in the Beijing Embassy. She said they do not process returns there however and would just review my return and forward it on to Austin, TX.

 

From what I can see these are my options...

 

1. e-File single. Seems like a terrible idea and a huge red flag for GUZ later.

 

2. File by mail (I have not found a way to e-file as married without a SSN/ITIN for spouse) and send my federal tax return directly to Austin for the sake of saving time. In the field for spouse's SSN/ITIN I would write something along the lines of "Non Resident Alien" or "N R A - No ITIN at time of filing" or something along those lines. I-864 says a copy of tax returns from your records is alright but I believe I have also read several accounts of them requiring a tax transcript and a copy of the return not being sufficient. If it takes a week for my return to get to Austin, transcripts are available two weeks after filing, and after ordering take about two weeks to arrive, I could potentially have transcripts arriving at my US address in ~5 weeks. I could have someone there scan and email them to me. This would *probably* get me 2010 transcripts in time for the interview (assuming my return without a spousal SSN/ITIN was accepted) and if I can't get the transcripts in time I would still have a copy of the actual return.

 

3. Take the advice of the IRS rep and send the ITIN app and my return to Beijing. This requires a notarized copy of my wife's passport which would take several days to get. This method would probably guarantee that my return is accepted, but there's no way to know when it would actually be processed. It would take a few days to get the notarized passport document, EMS it to Beijing, they "review it", maybe or maybe not wait for an ITIN to be issued, then forward it to Austin for processing. There's no way to be sure my return would even be filed before our interview and even if so I would think the chances of getting a transcript in time going this route would be very slim. For the interview we could take a copy of the return, a copy of our ITIN application, maybe a copy of the IRS time to file extension approval (didn't get that yet but should be approved, applied last week) and a letter explaining the situation and plead for mercy from the VO.

 

4. Go with 2007, 2008, and 2009's documents, extension approval, and possibly an explanation letter to the interview.

 

*takes a deep breath to calm down*

Edited February 18, 2011 by David11 (see edit history)

[Randy W]

No one is asking that your return be "accepted" - simply fill it out, and mail it in. In the space for your wife's SSN, write "ITIN requested". No transcript is needed. Nor is it even useful in most cases when you have copies of the original return.

 

Plan for the best - it may happen.

Edited February 18, 2011 by Randy W (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

I would probably not worry about the transcripts if it's going to take too much to get. As Randy says, you can have the original, which would include the W-2. Even if for some reason you did not file by then, you would still want to bring your W-2s (and copies). You could bring bank statements showing employment deposits and/or an employer letter. There are various "proofs" you can bring of your income and continued employment.

 

I would say if you file, you want to include the ITIN application; so you'll have to get a copy of her passport for that.

[David11]

I don't have W2's, employment letters, direct deposits, etc. David because I have been living in China for two years. My current employment (ESL teacher in China...) is also not going to continue. For these reasons I have a joint sponsor, and do have all of his pay stubs, W2's, etc.

 

My 2010 tax return would prove nothing - I'm probably below half the poverty level. If the VO has any idea what a University ESL teacher makes in China they will be aware of this. I'm just concerned that the VO is in a bad mood and demands my 2010 return just because they can.

 

I opted to file my 2010 return just to play it safe. My wife had her passport notarized, we mailed that along with the ITIN application materials, and I thought I was in the clear until today Beijing called me and told me that they will be sending it all back to me, as I am filing my return Married Filing Separately and the ITIN is only for joint returns (I must have misunderstood when I called asking about it before...). I explained my reasoning for filing to the rep who called me about sending my return back and she said that as long as the interview was before April 15 or my extension was approved, which she said in almost all certainty would be, I would just use 2009's return as my most recent tax year.

 

Not being able to get a concrete answer on this is driving me bonkers. It could very well be because no concrete answer exists, but not knowing if you have what is required (because what is required is not made entirely clear) is hard to stomach.

 

Randy: I was aiming for transcripts because I thought I read the opposite somewhere in that a transcript carries more weight than a copy of your return. A transcript means you filed and paid taxes on usually a verifiable income source whereas a copy of your return means nothing more than you wrote some numbers on a paper, signed it, photocopied it, and then possibly used it as a liner for the kitty litter box. If a transcript is less useful than a copy of the return I won't worry about a copy of 2010's transcript, but I am still unsure about filing 2010. Are you certain the return does not even need to be accepted/processed? If that is the case I could just use a copy of my now-rejected return that I sent to Beijing? Or I could re-do the return, photocopy it, and mail it to the US (or put it in my desk drawer for that matter)? Or trust the IRS agent about 2009 being alright because my 2010's won't be due yet? Demanding 2010's return in cases with just the single sponsor seems reasonable but it wouldn't make much sense in a case where I freely admit that I did not make near enough money last year to sponsor alone. I'm only providing any tax documentation at all because they ask for it, it does nothing to help our cause. There is no guarantee they will agree with that logic though, I suppose.

[dnoblett]

A transcript only shows filing a return, however you should be exempt from paying tax on foreign income up to s certain amount.

 

Again a copy of current return is sufficient.

 

What is more pressing is proving you maintained US Domicile, and having a Joint sponsor.

[NickF]

My problem is also tax return-related. I haven't filed 2010 yet because I'm waiting for additiona K-1 (IRS Form) from my accounting firm. My attorney here sent a copy of my 2010 W-2 and 3 moths of my previous pay stubs, along with an explanation of why I haven't filed yet. My fiancee is a worrier, and she took all our paperwork to an immigration lawyer in Nanning. He told her that I must file before her interview, and send him a copy of the return, plus 6 months of previous bank statements for all of my bank accounts.My attorney here says that this is horsecrap.

 

ChunMei's semi-hysterical about this, and I don't know what to do.The Chinese lawyer has also told her that he needs a notarized photocopy of every page in my passport, even the blank pages, and he needs my ex-wife's social security number, a copy of my 15 year old daughter's birth certificate, copies of credit card statements showing how I paid for the airfare for my two visits, and copies of my utility bills to prove I actually live in the US. This soulds like a perfect blueprint for an identity theft.

 

Any thoughts on this?

[dnoblett]

My problem is also tax return-related. I haven't filed 2010 yet because I'm waiting for additiona K-1 (IRS Form) from my accounting firm. My attorney here sent a copy of my 2010 W-2 and 3 moths of my previous pay stubs, along with an explanation of why I haven't filed yet. My fiancee is a worrier, and she took all our paperwork to an immigration lawyer in Nanning. He told her that I must file before her interview, and send him a copy of the return, plus 6 months of previous bank statements for all of my bank accounts.My attorney here says that this is horsecrap.

 

ChunMei's semi-hysterical about this, and I don't know what to do.The Chinese lawyer has also told her that he needs a notarized photocopy of every page in my passport, even the blank pages, and he needs my ex-wife's social security number, a copy of my 15 year old daughter's birth certificate, copies of credit card statements showing how I paid for the airfare for my two visits, and copies of my utility bills to prove I actually live in the US. This soulds like a perfect blueprint for an identity theft.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

The consulate treats I-134 as a light I-864 so uses same types of evidence. The standard is if employed (Past 3 years returns, past 6 months pay stubs, letter from employer.)

 

Here is what I-864 suggests:

 

http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad334/dnoblett/Immigration%20Stuff/I-864income.jpg

 

If not filed current year return (2010) then either attach a copy of extension or a note as to why have not filed yet waiting for paperwork. The consulate can always toss a blue for the return, and leave it up to you to provide it, they wont cancel over it, just hold up the process.

 

There rest of the stuff the lawyer is asking for is actually quite common for the consulate to ask for in a blue-slip, the lawyer is actually trying to cover these basis. (Much of this could have been attached to the petition when initially filling)

 

Some things like CC statements, you can black out the account numbers.

 

If you plan on being overseas when attending interview, you can always have fiancee have passport on hand when interviewing, this is what my wife did. Or send a certified copy of passport for the interview.

[chilton747]

My problem is also tax return-related. I haven't filed 2010 yet because I'm waiting for additiona K-1 (IRS Form) from my accounting firm. My attorney here sent a copy of my 2010 W-2 and 3 moths of my previous pay stubs, along with an explanation of why I haven't filed yet. My fiancee is a worrier, and she took all our paperwork to an immigration lawyer in Nanning. He told her that I must file before her interview, and send him a copy of the return, plus 6 months of previous bank statements for all of my bank accounts.My attorney here says that this is horsecrap.

 

ChunMei's semi-hysterical about this, and I don't know what to do.The Chinese lawyer has also told her that he needs a notarized photocopy of every page in my passport, even the blank pages, and he needs my ex-wife's social security number, a copy of my 15 year old daughter's birth certificate, copies of credit card statements showing how I paid for the airfare for my two visits, and copies of my utility bills to prove I actually live in the US. This soulds like a perfect blueprint for an identity theft.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

 

The Chinese lawyer is right except for the copy of your 15 year old daughter's birth certificate. Ex-wife's SS# has been asked for before in GZ so it it best to get it IF YOU CAN. Best go along with your fiancee cause if you don't do what she wants and you get denied, life will be very tough for you.