Split Topic: The Middle Kingdom - Öйú > American Citizen Services

[Rob and WeiLing]

On July 20, 2010, American Citizen Services (ACS) at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing launched our first Facebook page. On this page, Americans traveling or residing in China can find information about the services ACS Beijing offers, hours of operation, location, and miscellaneous updates from the Department of State. If you have a Facebook account and would like to receive regular updates on the Embassy and Expatriate communities in Beijing, we invite you to visit our page.

 

**Please note that this Facebook page is intended as a supplement to, not a replacement for, the American Citizen Services webpage http://beijing.usembassy-china.org.cn/service.html and warden message system.

 

How to Join: From your Facebook page, search for ?U.S. Embassy Beijing American Citizen Services? and click the ?like? button at the top right of the page. This will allow you to access the page and receive updates.

 

If you do not have a Facebook account, you can go to www.facebook.com and follow the registration procedures. This is a free service.

 

Wow, thanks to the embassy for that . Now for the question: How do those traveling or residing in China access this service?

 

Is ACS:

• Recommending users break local law and use proxies to bypass China's internet censorship, or
  
• Assuming that expatriates and visitors are already breaking the law, or
  
• Ignorant of the fact that China's firewall blocks Facebook?
  

 

I'm going to go with the last, and think that time spent on Facebook is a waste of their time...

 

{edit} Of course, I may or may not commonly be on Facebook

Edited July 22, 2010 by Rob and WeiLing (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

I know a few Chinese in China using Facebook, as well as a few China based companies.

 

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=25652138460 (China Highlights Travel) Well this one is based in Guilin but also have overseas offices.

 

Hey if there is a will there is a way to get around that firewall, and with many Chinese if a law or rule is inconvenient they simply go around it.

[Randy W]

I know a few Chinese in China using Facebook, as well as a few China based companies.

 

http://www.facebook....gid=25652138460 (China Highlights Travel) Well this one is based in Guilin but also have overseas offices.

 

Hey if there is a will there is a way to get around that firewall, and with many Chinese if a law or rule is inconvenient they simply go around it.

 

 

I would be surprised if there actually were any kind of law in China against using Facebook or Youtube, or against using proxy servers or VPN's. Facebook and YouTube are blocked because of specific content on their sites.

 

With Google, the issue was not whether it was legal to use them or not, but whether access to their servers would be blocked. That is, would it be legal for them to continue to operate in China.

 

That is, it's the content that's illegal, not the access.

[Rob and WeiLing]

I would be surprised if there actually were any kind of law in China against using Facebook or Youtube, or against using proxy servers or VPN's. Facebook and YouTube are blocked because of specific content on their sites.

 

With Google, the issue was not whether it was legal to use them or not, but whether access to their servers would be blocked. That is, would it be legal for them to continue to operate in China.

 

That is, it's the content that's illegal, not the access.

 

I agree that China is mostly concerned about content, but I have to disagree with most of the rest. Without getting too technical, I can say that Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc are not blocked on content, but blocked entirely. Neither of us is part of the CCP, so we can only speculate as to the reasons--but I'd say that these sites are not blocked on the content already there; instead to prevent Chinese from posting to widely popular social websites not under Chinese control. Websites not blocked entirely are filtered (including CFL). WikiPedia, for example, mostly works. Try accessing pages on certain events at Tian'anmen square, and you'll run into a block on specific content. Further, the great firewall is not actually run by the government, but is required of all ISPs in China. A website that is blocked in one region is not necessarily blocked nationwide. That said, the above listed websites are blocked in all parts of mainland China.

 

(I don't know why Google was brought up; the main search engine has never been blocked. They pulled out of China originally due to hackings. You can read their carefully worded "f-you" message to China at http://www.google.com/press/new-approach-to-china/update.html, though it's Chinese only. They're only recently looking to renew their content license in China because of the large loss in China's search engine market-share. All of Google's social oriented websites have been blocked for quite a while. Note that the search engine is not a social website.)

 

So while access to Facebook specifically may not be illegal, I would find it very strange if they didn't take issue with intentionally circumventing a government-mandated censor to access specifically-selected blocked sites.

[Kyle]

Split off from this thread:

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42010

 

Ok guys, carry on!

Edited July 22, 2010 by Kyle
Discussion going in another direction. (see edit history)

[Randy W]

I agree that China is mostly concerned about content, but I have to disagree with most of the rest. Without getting too technical, I can say that Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, etc are not blocked on content, but blocked entirely. Neither of us is part of the CCP, so we can only speculate as to the reasons--but I'd say that these sites are not blocked on the content already there; instead to prevent Chinese from posting to widely popular social websites not under Chinese control. Websites not blocked entirely are filtered (including CFL). WikiPedia, for example, mostly works. Try accessing pages on certain events at Tian'anmen square, and you'll run into a block on specific content. Further, the great firewall is not actually run by the government, but is required of all ISPs in China. A website that is blocked in one region is not necessarily blocked nationwide. That said, the above listed websites are blocked in all parts of mainland China.

 

(I don't know why Google was brought up; the main search engine has never been blocked. They pulled out of China originally due to hackings. You can read their carefully worded "f-you" message to China at http://www.google.co...ina/update.html, though it's Chinese only. They're only recently looking to renew their content license in China because of the large loss in China's search engine market-share. All of Google's social oriented websites have been blocked for quite a while. Note that the search engine is not a social website.)

 

So while access to Facebook specifically may not be illegal, I would find it very strange if they didn't take issue with intentionally circumventing a government-mandated censor to access specifically-selected blocked sites.

 

 

 

To me. that says "censorship", not that it's illegal to access these sites."They can "Take issue with" anything they want, whether legal or illegal.

 

What is filtered at CFL?

 

Is it legal to watch CNN International? That's something that's not available to most Chinese.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Rob and WeiLing]

To me. that says "censorship", not that it's illegal to access these sites."They can "Take issue with" anything they want, whether legal or illegal.

 

What is filtered at CFL?

 

Is it legal to watch CNN International? That's something that's not available to most Chinese.

 

Usually censorship comes with clauses that make it illegal to circumvent the censors. Circumvention of censorship is what I believe to be illegal, especially as certain sites have been specifically selected. So access may not be illegal directly, but by requiring an illegal circumvention to access, the access itself can be considered illegal. Again, I'm not a lawyer (and especially not a Chinese lawyer) so I can't state definitively that anything in China is illegal or legal.

 

It's different from CNN International in that CNN is not censored. It doesn't require censor-circumvention to watch. Censored sites are unavailable, but unavailable doesn't necessarily mean censored...

 

China uses "DNS hijacking" to redirect traffic from certain specifically censored domain names. Of course, they also employ other methods in the event users don't use Chinese-controlled DNS servers (for example http://opendns.org)...

 

As for CFL, it's clumped in with the rest of the internet. Everything you browse on the web is filtered through what's called a "transparent proxy". Certain patterns cause the connection to be broken. Repeated attempts will cause subsequent connections to the site to be blocked for a short time. I could drop a message here to trigger this. Each time you try to read it, the page will get cut off. Depending on what internet browser you use, this could result anywhere from a partially rendered page to an error message. Of course, refreshing a few times would cause your Chinese ISP to block connections to CFL for a short while, preventing you from reading anything here. However, in the interest of not bringing unwanted censor attention here (however insignificant it may be), I'll simply state that triggers include things such as the name of a politically sensitive religion. This includes English, Chinese, and probably the name as transliterated to other languages as well. I'm sure you know which religion I'm talking about...

 

Anyway, the Great Firewall is pretty sophisticated and employs a multitude of methods. It's not documented, and the triggers and blocked sites change subtlely almost daily. It is also implemented to be as invisible as possible, in effort to not expose exactly what is censored. Sometimes the triggers require a certain threshold of occurrence before they'll fire the censor.

[Randy W]

You could say Falun Gong rather than beating around the bush.

 

Tibet, Falun Gong - we'll see if "they" notice, or care.

 

Chinese internet access seems to be more load sensitive than any active censoring. Mine generally goes out completely on the last day of a holiday for about 2 hours. Can you say "QQ"?

[Randy W]

In watching it refresh several times, it pauses on the Facebook accesses. Now I'm not paranoid enough to think that someone might come to my door because I'm trying to access Facebook.

[Randy W]

Even so, you seem to be saying that because something is censored, that means it is illegal. And also extending that to ways of getting around the censorship.

 

I'll let the Chinese interpret their own laws, thank you. So far, I see no indication of any active censoring. I doubt that there would be anyone who cares what I look at. But then, I won't feel any need to try to explore the limits of that, either.

[Rob and WeiLing]

Even so, you seem to be saying that because something is censored, that means it is illegal. And also extending that to ways of getting around the censorship.

 

I'll let the Chinese interpret their own laws, thank you. So far, I see no indication of any active censoring. I doubt that there would be anyone who cares what I look at. But then, I won't feel any need to try to explore the limits of that, either.

 

Pornography is censored and arrests have been made for publishing, distributing, buying, and viewing. The other day, my brother-in-law told me a story of a man who was watching porn on the computer. He was alone and curtains drawn, etc. A short while, he got a knock on his door from the police. My brother-in-law said that after this, all the local people know that the police watch what they do online. Porn is censored and illegal, I don't see why other censored topics or websites wouldn't also be illegal. It'd seem pretty inconsistent.

 

As for allowing Chinese to interpret their own laws--I agree with you, as long as I'm not obliged to abide by said laws. Being that I am in China, I don't pretend that US Constitutional rights still apply to me. I also avoid anything that can be potentially be misinterpreted as an attempt to undermine the government here. Sure, I occasionally VPN through my US home to access Facebook. I don't, however, setup pages that are blocked by censors and ask people in China to view them. Then again, the US State Department does back certain censorship circumvention projects.

 

Anyway, we can argue this forever. You won't change my mind, and I won't change yours. I'll be back in America in a month, and you can do as you please in China. One mention of a religion won't trigger any block, of course, but I also won't mention it needlessly. Start talking in depth about the religion, and some of the projects that it sponsors and you might start to see some active censors...

[Rob and WeiLing]

Here's an interesting blog post that is somewhat related:

 

http://www.ethanzuckerman.com/blog/2010/02/22/internet-freedom-beyond-circumvention/

[Randy W]

Pornography is censored and arrests have been made for publishing, distributing, buying, and viewing. The other day, my brother-in-law told me a story of a man who was watching porn on the computer. He was alone and curtains drawn, etc. A short while, he got a knock on his door from the police. My brother-in-law said that after this, all the local people know that the police watch what they do online. Porn is censored and illegal, I don't see why other censored topics or websites wouldn't also be illegal. It'd seem pretty inconsistent.

 

As for allowing Chinese to interpret their own laws--I agree with you, as long as I'm not obliged to abide by said laws. Being that I am in China, I don't pretend that US Constitutional rights still apply to me. I also avoid anything that can be potentially be misinterpreted as an attempt to undermine the government here. Sure, I occasionally VPN through my US home to access Facebook. I don't, however, setup pages that are blocked by censors and ask people in China to view them. Then again, the US State Department does back certain censorship circumvention projects.

 

Anyway, we can argue this forever. You won't change my mind, and I won't change yours. I'll be back in America in a month, and you can do as you please in China. One mention of a religion won't trigger any block, of course, but I also won't mention it needlessly. Start talking in depth about the religion, and some of the projects that it sponsors and you might start to see some active censors...

 

 

That's actually a LOT more reasonable - there's nothing to disagree with here.

[Rob and WeiLing]

Here's another from CNet News:

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-20001212-245.html

If the traffic is blocked at the domain name system level, users may get a "site not found" message; if the IP address is blocked the message may say "site unreachable;" and if the URL is blocked or a page contains sensitive content a "connection reset error" message may be displayed, according to Lih.

 

"China's Great Firewall system is so sophisticated and massive, it can tailor blocking for each individual Web surfer because it monitors a person's surfing activity to sites outside of China's domestic Internet, right down to what's contained inside the web page," Lih explains on his Web site (PDF).

 

"In the case of someone doing a Google search, each search engine results page (SERP) being sent back to a PRC user is being analyzed for sensitive keywords, and the user's Internet traffic to Google can be blocked within seconds. This is happening every day, constantly, regardless of whether the search engine is Google, Bing, or something else," Lih writes.

[Randy W]

Here's another from CNet News:

 

http://news.cnet.com...001212-245.html

 

 

 

He just seems to fall to victim to he himself pointed out.

By providing no guidelines and keeping citizens guessing about policies and enforcement, the PRC has less to do as citizens and sites heavily self-censor, erring on the safe side.

If they're as sophisticated as he claims, they can look inside proxied messages and get the same information as if it were direct to the site.

Web surfers in China are accustomed to the variability in performance and may be uncertain why any particular site is not accessible, he said, adding that most users will just give up and move on to another site when they can't easily get through.

Access to a particular site (to me) seems to be a LOT more consistent than what he says - it's the load factors which seem the most variable.

 

Of course things may be different where you (and he) are, but for the most part the heaviest principle seems to be, " the PRC has less to do as citizens and sites heavily self-censor, erring on the safe side" - which is to say that I don't concern myself with whether a site (or VPN's) is censored or illegal, but then, I'm not here to research pornography, Tibet, Tiananmen Square or the Falun Gong.

 

If the censorship were anywhere near as sophisticated as he suggests, you can bet there would be MASSIVE bottlenecks at the censor sites.

 

I'm not buying it.