Illegals are protesting.... on the streets.

[Guest alex062872]

Me, an immigrant from P. R. China 7 years ago. I am an immigrant myself. I make $45,000 a year.

 

my calculations, correct me if I am wrong.

 

one illegal come in (assumed female here)...sneak in, bus in, walk in…whatever, she came to US….illegally.

 

she can't work legally...she can work for cash and she will....no income tax paid to our government at all....

 

she can't spend much, (she doesn't have extra to spend).....no sales tax collected (basic food, milk doesn’t pay tax in California).

 

she walks on the street....we paid for the pavement.

 

she takes buses.....we paid our city (property tax) to keep buses going.

 

she drives without insurance (she can't buy insurance).....we have to pay "uninsured motorist" and the Freeway system to make the road FREE for her to drive.

 

she has a cold.....we paid the emergency room (local tax). My friend went to ER and she paid $2500.00 for that fever. She is legal, not insured. I was there when the bills came. $2500.00, no kidding.

 

then she get knocked up.....we pay the physical exam and medical espenses (California government pays, we pay state income tax to cover that).

 

she delivers a beautiful baby.....pretty baby, one thing, citizenship, another nightmare.....we pay her medical bills, at least $3000, and her baby's medical.

 

Why? because she is illegal and she is poor. but, but, but...the baby is innocent........AND, the baby is an US citizen.

 

Now, you think the nightmare is over. Wrong, it just gets started…..yeap, the baby….the illegal’s baby, who is a legal citizen. (assume the baby is a boy)

 

The boy need to eat……food stamp…..and cash allowance.

 

Food stamp: $300-$400. yeap, you right, we pay for that. What, “that is not my baby, why I have to pay?”………….shut up, just pay. From you income tax, state tax, property tax, sales tax……..remember the baby is innocent….and he is a citizen.

 

Cash allowance: $400-$600. yeap, you right, we pay for that. Cash allowance for what? We don’t know. The boy may need extra good, some burgers. Orange juices, whatever. His mom, the illegal, need something to eat too.

 

The boy’s medical. We pay for that too. (his mom, the illegal, pay $0-$6 per month)…..we pay all of his medical…..until………….he is 18 years old.(California’s HEALTHYFAMILY program makes that a law)

 

OK, he is a good kid and time for him to go to school……school, god. We pay that. From our property tax and property fees…….text books, teachers, classrooms….we pay.

 

After 12 years of school……the boy is smart, he is going to college…..in California, he is legal (a citizen), graduated from a California High School, he doesn’t need to pay “out of state tuition”……we pay for him…..how much? Well, currently in Spring 2004, roughly $200 per quarter unit, 4 years college, need over 150 units….what, right, that is right….about $30,000.00….we pay for that.

 

His mom, the illegal, may have more than one kid, normally speaking….about 3-5 kids, that is common. Multiple it 3-5 times…..you can pray the dear God.

 

From my calculation, over 18 years, we have pay over $250,000 for her and her boy. Conservatively calculated and we only assume she only has ONE child, that’s rarely happens, they usually have more than one kids, 3-5 normally in California.

 

And NOW, after we, tax payers, paid all that. They, the illegals want a strike in California (December 12th 2003 ) and claim that the society descrimate against them.

 

I am sorry, dear Lord. I am lost. They took my hard earned money and tell me that I should apologize to them…….

[se_lang]

AMEN

[JerryL]

I think you just explained why there are some many illegals in this country...

 

Jerry

[keelec]

I can't stand being given the nth degree to try to get my finacee to the USA while others receive charity for walking across the border. However, there are always two sides to every story.

 

There is a mix of people from South of the boarder, as well as from right here in the USA.

 

I have heard that many Mexican Americans are extremely hard working. Often they take jobs that are not favoriable to Americans. They are often forced to work at below minimum wage so that we can save a few cents on our Apples at the supermarkets.

 

Yes, I admit that the system may be abused by some, but many Mexicans come to the USA for a piece of the American Dream, and they work hard to get it.

 

On the other hand, I have met Americans (both blacks and whites) that live off of the system. One black woman I know is in her early 30's. She has 6 children from ages 5 to 17. Since I met her 6 months ago, she has worked about 2 weeks. I can't quite figure out where her money comes from, but it certainly isn't from her own work.

 

And, I doubt that she will be outworking any hispanic laborers out on the farm.

 

---- CK ----

[JerryL]

This is certainly a complex issue with many different sides. After all, it is certainly very possible for an illegal immigrant to be hard working AND a drain on the social service infrastructure. I've no doubt many immigrants, both legal and illegal, are hard working, most likely more so than many of the 'citizens'. It takes a certain amount of will power and desire to better your lot in life to move yourself to another country to start a new life. At the same time, poor people use more services than they pay in taxes, and I would assert that most illegal immigrants fall in that category.

 

I saw Lou Dobbs on CNN Moneyline a few days calling for a national debate on immigration policy, as we do on many other issues like Medicare. I tend to agree with him. As a country, we need to figure out what we want, pass the laws, and enforce them. If we need agricultural laborers and no Americans want to do the job, then set up some kind of guest worker program to bring in folks who want to work, and pay them enough so they don't end up relying on social services. But just closing one eye to people sneaking over to take on jobs for artificially low wages is bad for everyone, be it citizens, legal immigrants, or illegal immigrants.

 

As it is now, the economics of the system is distorted. Take agriculture as an example. You have the food growers taking advantage of the status of the workers to pay them artificially low wages. But then people need to consume a minimum amount of resources to live. They have families, kids get sick, etc. So they end up relying on the social service service safety net, which all taxpapers pay for.

 

So in essence, what you have going on is that all taxpayers end up subsidizing the payroll of people who employ illegal immigrants. This happens in all sorts of industries here such as restaurants or landscaping. I believe the government does not crack down on illegal immigration simply because these companies don't want to give up this hidden payroll subsidy. If the subsidies go away, the demand for illegal workers would fall off.

 

Just my two cents...

 

Jerry

[MoonCarolCafe]

Defacto underclasses are so 1950s.

 

Make Them Legal ... or ... Kick Them Out.

 

Here is an idea, if I locate 10 illegal immigrants (of any nationality) my wife gets a free pass to the front of the line! To keep things fair, I pay a $2500 fine to any person I falsely accused of being here W.O.P.

[JerryL]

Just curious... Would you consider guest workers as an underclass? I'm thinking something like the H1-B program for high tech workers.

 

Actually, the H1-B's have it much better than us in some regards. Only takes them a month for the paperwork to bring a spouse over...

 

Jerry

[warpedbored]

Defacto underclasses are so 1950s.

 

Make Them Legal ... or ... Kick Them Out.

 

Here is an idea, if I locate 10 illegal immigrants (of any nationality) my wife gets a free pass to the front of the line!  To keep things fair,  I pay a $2500 fine to any person I falsely accused of being here W.O.P.

Interesting debate. I can see the issue of creating an underclass but on the other hand the fact is that few americans are willing to do the work that migrant workers are doing. Jerry's point on it actually being a hidden subsidy is a real eye opener. Besides like it or not we have an underclass already in janitors, maids, gas station attendants and many other menial underpaid jobs.

[tonyontherock]

Legal, Illegal: work hard __good.

Legal, Illegal, citizens: Lazy and on wellfare___bad.

social services:___Bad.

Work, no pay____ Bad.

Pay, no work ____ worse.

Me pay, they get ____ worst.

Serious, I borrowed to pay the $500 for painting two rooms in my house. Could not afford new wood floors for my living and dinning room, I ended up with different color floors upstairs and down stairs. Had to call other people to find out if I am getting the usual bonus so that I can buy my son a Christmas present or face foreclosure if I don't pay my mortgage. Coerced my ex to pay for kid's weekend school trip to London and firmly told him no to the Spain trip in the spring, even though it is school trip for Spanish classes and caused him to become real upset. Then, the government took more than $50,000 from my pay to date. Talk about hating illegal immigrants putting a burden on taxes?

Yet, we have to realize, anti-illegal immigration has always been used by some to advance causes against alll immigrants.

Funny thing is, on the wall behind the Criminal court in Manhattan, they got this murals. A group of Irish on the construction job, jews with large suitcases going to the Garment District, Chinese with funny pig tails working in a street side shop, and then some Mexican looking guys sitting on a stoop drinking beer. Of course, there was a protest and the last one was taken down. I was so innocent at the time and asked my friend, who happen to be latina married to a P.R. " You sure those are Mexicans not P. Ricans? Guatalupai was the hardest working kid I know and he is from Mexico."

[keelec]

Ok,

 

Say I owned a factory making furniture.

 

What would be the difference between staffing my factory with Mexican immigrants North of the Border, or staffing it with Mexicans South of the Border?

 

Of course, having it north of the border, the property values are higher, and I would imagine that income taxes would be higher. In theory, one would also have to pay social security, medical, retirement, and everything else.

 

Having the factory south of the border.... cheaper land, cheaper labor, cheaper retirement benefits, .......

 

And, with NAFTA, the finished products can be imported into the USA duty free!!!!!!!!!!!! In fact, with NAFTA, one can ship the raw products south for processing and bring the finished product back up here...... And, if one is lucky, even call it made in the USA (or, at least made in Mexico out of US materials).

 

-----------------------------

 

Yes, I admit that black-market workers are very bad.

 

Most Americans cringe at the thought of bribing to get stuff like passports in foreign countries.

 

With that in mind, it is not reasonable to then say it is ok to break the law by hiring undocumented laborers, and likely cheat on the taxes because there is no way to legally pay social security and income taxes.

 

Plus, as others have pointed out, while many Mexican Americans contribute lots of hard work to our society, by not paying taxes, and not legally having drivers licenses and insurance, and other things, then they can actually be as much of a drain as a benefit.

 

-------------

 

It looks like I am rambling and jumping from one side of the fence to another.

 

I think what we really need is to figure out a way to make it not profitable to hire "illegal aliens" in the USA and regulate the flow of "legal" workers from Mexico into the USA.

 

* The first step would be to make exorbitant fines for hiring illegal / undocumented workers. For example, fine businesses $100,000 PER EMPLOYEE.

 

* Allow both prime contractors and subcontractors to be fined. The responsibility shouldn’t be solely born by the subcontractors.

* Fine the undocumented employees a significant amount as well as sending them packing south. Of course, much of the money may never be collected, but it is something that could be held over their heads should they ever return.

 

* Make visas accessible in a “reasonable” amount of time for a “reasonable” cost.

 

 

----- CK -----

[keelec]

Here is an idea, if I locate 10 illegal immigrants (of any nationality) my wife gets a free pass to the front of the line!  To keep things fair,  I pay a $2500 fine to any person I falsely accused of being here W.O.P.

I bet you could park a pickup along some of the southern borders and pick up your quota in a single night!!!!

 

------

 

Hmmm, could I add a couple of "Americans" to your list for deportation?

[JerryL]

Or any of the Home Depot parking lots around here...

 

Jerry