Starting the process before getting engaged

[monkeyking]

your confusing two issues which is common to do.

 

your passport only proves you were in china; not that you actually spent time with her. The former gives them some knowledge about your being in the country... the latter will be what they really want to know; how much time did you spent together; how can you 'prove' that?

 

I realize the passport says nothing about the relationship, but everyone keeps telling me I need to have copies of plane tickets, receipts, hotel reservations, etc. Those don't prove a relationship, either, so why is it necessary to keep all of that? The residence permits at least show that, for 18 months, I lived in the same city she lives in. Wouldn't that have more weight than a plane ticket?

 

As Randy said, everything that painted a picture of a loving relationship. With the initial petition: pics together over several years' time in different places, pics together with family and friends, evidence of email communication over time when apart, copies of letters when apart, a letter about our relationship history and feelings (usually people here call this an "Evolution of Relationship" letter, but I just included this information in my "Letter of Intent to Marry" document).

 

I've only been back in the US for a few months, so I don't have a terribly long Skype call history or e-mail archive. What I do have is about 20 pictures of us together in different seasons, but they aren't date-stamped. I have this sinking feeling that this isn't a good portfolio. I didn't know the K1 process was so demanding, otherwise I would have been keeping everything and taking three times as many photos.

Edited April 12, 2010 by clarkisdark (see edit history)

[knloregon]

It is demanding.

 

It requires you to show (document) proof not only your relationship with her, but also that its a sincere, and exclusive relationship. your documents that show you were in the same place, same time, without documenting a sincere, and genuine relationship with her doesn't mean squat. You could have had another woman every night of your stay, and some men do.

 

The idea is to show, as every VO in the American Consulate knows----genuine, and loving and extended contact with her-----AND HER FAMILY ~ !. So those who suggest hotel rooms, and airplane tickets (while that helps) ---that doesn't necessarily, PAINT A PICTURE of your relationship to her. To do that, its extensive photographic family gatherings, at restaurants, (and one very compelling backup piece of evidence here is the dated receipt for the dinner listing the dishes on the table at the time the photo was taken) ---let the VO try to question that: Item by item: "SEE? here's the fishhead soup, heres the pig's feet, heres the coiled 'five-spice' snake....." etc...

 

Hope you get the drift. But given what I've read here, I sure as sh-t would NOT got ahead with what you've got so far----if you truly love this woman.

[weiaijiayou]

your confusing two issues which is common to do.

 

your passport only proves you were in china; not that you actually spent time with her. The former gives them some knowledge about your being in the country... the latter will be what they really want to know; how much time did you spent together; how can you 'prove' that?

 

I realize the passport says nothing about the relationship, but everyone keeps telling me I need to have copies of plane tickets, receipts, hotel reservations, etc. Those don't prove a relationship, either, so why is it necessary to keep all of that? The residence permits at least show that, for 18 months, I lived in the same city she lives in. Wouldn't that have more weight than a plane ticket?

 

As Randy said, everything that painted a picture of a loving relationship. With the initial petition: pics together over several years' time in different places, pics together with family and friends, evidence of email communication over time when apart, copies of letters when apart, a letter about our relationship history and feelings (usually people here call this an "Evolution of Relationship" letter, but I just included this information in my "Letter of Intent to Marry" document).

 

I've only been back in the US for a few months, so I don't have a terribly long Skype call history or e-mail archive. What I do have is about 20 pictures of us together in different seasons, but they aren't date-stamped. I have this sinking feeling that this isn't a good portfolio. I didn't know the K1 process was so demanding, otherwise I would have been keeping everything and taking three times as many photos.

Since your relationship is genuine, I¡¯m sure you have enough to make a great case.

 

Include a sample of whatever call/email logs you have since you¡¯ve been back in the US; they¡¯ll understand that you weren¡¯t calling and emailing each other while you lived together.

 

Twenty good pictures is plenty. Our pictures didn¡¯t have date stamps either. What I did was neatly staple them on computer paper, two pictures per page. Under each picture, I wrote who was in it and where and when it was taken. The different seasons (and possibly your fiancee¡¯s changing hairstyles, as in our case) will help corroborate the timeframe. One other thing I did was looked around for ¡°evidence¡± from trips we took together: for example, old train tickets and pamphlets/maps from parks we visited together. I put these with their corresponding pictures. If you haven¡¯t saved any of this type of stuff, perhaps your fianc¨¦e has, or, if you look around in your ¡°junk drawer¡± and the bags you only use for traveling, perhaps you¡¯ll find some useful stuff there.

 

Look for whatever evidence you might have available, including things unique to your own case/experience that wouldn¡¯t necessarily be discussed or expected. For example, my wife worked at a kindergarten in China. One of the months I was with her, I volunteered there (which saved them a good deal of money on a waijiao laoshi and allowed their kids to get 5 times more lessons that month). To help our case, we then asked the kindergarten to write and stamp a short document saying that my wife worked there and I volunteered there during x period of time. They agreed and even allowed us to write the document, so all they had to do was stamp it and agree to be available in case the consulate had any questions. (Of course, according to the letter, my wife and I both had amazing work ethic and were a fantastic team.) This is just to give you some ideas about the range of stuff you could possibly use to corroborate your relationship and lessen any doubts in the VO¡¯s mind that this could all be some sort of immigration scam. Having lived together for some time, you may be able to put together this kind of evidence which is perhaps more unorthodox for a K1 application.

[monkeyking]

Look for whatever evidence you might have available, including things unique to your own case/experience that wouldn¡¯t necessarily be discussed or expected. For example, my wife worked at a kindergarten in China. One of the months I was with her, I volunteered there (which saved them a good deal of money on a waijiao laoshi and allowed their kids to get 5 times more lessons that month). To help our case, we then asked the kindergarten to write and stamp a short document saying that my wife worked there and I volunteered there during x period of time. They agreed and even allowed us to write the document, so all they had to do was stamp it and agree to be available in case the consulate had any questions. (Of course, according to the letter, my wife and I both had amazing work ethic and were a fantastic team.) This is just to give you some ideas about the range of stuff you could possibly use to corroborate your relationship and lessen any doubts in the VO¡¯s mind that this could all be some sort of immigration scam. Having lived together for some time, you may be able to put together this kind of evidence which is perhaps more unorthodox for a K1 application.

 

Before I read this, I was already thinking about the possibility of having friends (both Chinese and American) who know us both to write letters. But then you made me realize that my girlfriend and I worked at an English training school together for two months (that's actually how we met). A letter from the school's boss would probably have more weight than a letter from a personal friend. Great advice. Thank you!

[weiaijiayou]

Great. I¡¯d just suggest that 1) the letter be from the school (not just the boss) and include the school¡¯s stamp and 2) it should be clear in your application that you met your girlfriend/fiancee spontaneously. Generally it¡¯s good to avoid giving the appearance that you were set up by somebody.

[david_dawei]

your confusing two issues which is common to do.

 

your passport only proves you were in china; not that you actually spent time with her. The former gives them some knowledge about your being in the country... the latter will be what they really want to know; how much time did you spent together; how can you 'prove' that?

 

I realize the passport says nothing about the relationship, but everyone keeps telling me I need to have copies of plane tickets, receipts, hotel reservations, etc. Those don't prove a relationship, either, so why is it necessary to keep all of that? The residence permits at least show that, for 18 months, I lived in the same city she lives in. Wouldn't that have more weight than a plane ticket?

you need proof of your trip (or time in china) and proof of your relationship. I don't care where the proof comes from, only GUZ does.

[monkeyking]

you need proof of your trip (or time in china) and proof of your relationship. I don't care where the proof comes from, only GUZ does.

 

I know you don't care, and I know there are two parts to this. I got that already. My concern, the one that was being ignored, was that, in the event that I no longer have copies of plane tickets or hotel reservations or what have you, wouldn't a residence permit be just as good? Again, this isn't about proving the relationship. But as many times as I see "keep copies of plane tickets, etc." on this site, I feel like that was a valid concern.

Edited April 16, 2010 by clarkisdark (see edit history)

[shenzhen]

you need proof of your trip (or time in china) and proof of your relationship. I don't care where the proof comes from, only GUZ does.

 

I know you don't care, but the whole point of this website is to get help and advice, and the issue I've been asking about, the one that's been frequently ignored, is that, in the event that I no longer have copies of airplane tickets or hotel reservations or what have you, wouldn't a residence permit in my passport be just as good? I'm not talking about the relationship half. I already know I don't have enough paperwork for that. But I see "copies of plane tickets, etc." come up all the time, and that's something I don't have.

You need to prove that you have been in China and had a relationship with your girlfriend. For people who did not live in China then they need to have documentation of trips to China. If you lived in China then you need to proof it by some means (not necessary plane tickets, hotel reservations, etc) have other proof you can use.

 

I had for proof:

1) copies of my plane tickets for my trips BACK to USA

2) residence permit and entry/exit stamps in passport

3) china work contract

4) letter from HR department (stating where I worked, my apt address, and that they were aware of my relationship/marriage with my wife)

5) airplane tickets from trips she/I took togehter

6) hotel invoices with both our names on them from trips togehter

7) pictures

 

The concept should not be so hard to understand and 1-stop instructions does not work. You are in a different circumstance then most (live in USA and visit China) so think about the documentation you can gather and submit to prove you really lived in China and had a relationship with your girlfriend. It is not so hard to do yourself but others have already given you the advice. I dont understand why you are so stuck on airline tickets and the fact that you don't have them.

 

And to answer your question bluntly and directly -- just a copy of your residence permit is not enough proof.

Edited April 16, 2010 by shenzhen (see edit history)

[Randy W]

you need proof of your trip (or time in china) and proof of your relationship. I don't care where the proof comes from, only GUZ does.

 

I know you don't care, and I know there are two parts to this. I got that already. My concern, the one that was being ignored, was that, in the event that I no longer have copies of plane tickets or hotel reservations or what have you, wouldn't a residence permit be just as good? Again, this isn't about proving the relationship. But as many times as I see "keep copies of plane tickets, etc." on this site, I feel like that was a valid concern.

 

 

A VERY simple rule of thumb - send evidence that you DO have, DON'T send evidence that you don't have.

 

Don't sweat the little stuff, especially when you have it covered. It's easy enough to prove that you were there, the part to concern yourself with is the relationship evidence - paint a pretty picture ovf a loving relationship.

[warpedbored]

you need proof of your trip (or time in china) and proof of your relationship. I don't care where the proof comes from, only GUZ does.

 

I know you don't care, and I know there are two parts to this. I got that already. My concern, the one that was being ignored, was that, in the event that I no longer have copies of plane tickets or hotel reservations or what have you, wouldn't a residence permit be just as good? Again, this isn't about proving the relationship. But as many times as I see "keep copies of plane tickets, etc." on this site, I feel like that was a valid concern.

There are many forms of evidence that can be use. Try to put yourself in the VO's shoes. If a petitioner supplied a residence permit showing he was in the same city as his girlfriend and read an evolution of relationship letter explaining how they met and how long they had been going together that would be pretty compelling evidence that they had a bonafide relationship. Don't sweat the plane ticket. You have to prove that you have met in the last two years. The residence permit does that as well as a plane ticket.