Children: Passport and Travel Issues

[kdavid3]

My wife (Chinese) and I (American) had our first child this last August. My job ties me to China for the next 5 - 6 years. I'd like to take my son home to America so that he can meet his American family.

What is the best way to go about getting him issued a passport and visa?

An American passport seems like a no-brainer, but would cause problems once we return to China after a short visit to America. As I said above, all three of us will be in China for the next several years.

I need to find an option that will be the least amount of hassle in regards to passports, visas, etc.

Candid personal experience and stories would be a big help. Thanks in advance!

[dnoblett]

Register birth abroad at your nearest consulate or US embassy, they will issue a US passport. Then I beleive you visit a PSB office for a chinese exit visa.

 

You can find info about registering birth abroad on the consulate website.

[Randy W]

Documenting a Child Born Abroad Who Acquires U.S. Citizenship at Birth - http://guangzhou.usembassy-china.org.cn/ne...gistration.html (GUZ)

Your child, as the child of an American citizen, is entitled to citizenship and an American passport. He/she may need an (Chinese) exit visa in order to leave China.

Please note, as soon as a U.S. passport is issued, the baby's parents must apply for a Chinese visa to ensure that they don't have problems leaving the country. However, if one parent of the child is a Chinese citizen and the child was born in China, the Chinese government may consider the child a Chinese citizen. In that case, the child will have to obtain a Chinese passport before leaving the country. The child will still be a U.S. citizen and should always use his/her U.S. passport for international travel after departing China. Please contact the exit and entry administration office of the local Public Security Bureau for more information.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Randy W (see edit history)

[shanghaigale]

When our daughter was born in China we had a birth abroad certificate issued by the American Consulate in Shanghai and and filed for the passport at the same time. We did have to take her to the local security bureau and get an exit visa to leave China. However, once you have left China, you will have no other choice than to get a visa for your son to come back into China once he has exited. With luck you will be able to get a long term visa for him if you explain the situation.

Gale

 

My wife (Chinese) and I (American) had our first child this last August. My job ties me to China for the next 5 - 6 years. I'd like to take my son home to America so that he can meet his American family.

 

What is the best way to go about getting him issued a passport and visa?

 

An American passport seems like a no-brainer, but would cause problems once we return to China after a short visit to America. As I said above, all three of us will be in China for the next several years.

 

I need to find an option that will be the least amount of hassle in regards to passports, visas, etc.

 

Candid personal experience and stories would be a big help. Thanks in advance!

[dnoblett]

When our daughter was born in China we had a birth abroad certificate issued by the American Consulate in Shanghai and and filed for the passport at the same time. We did have to take her to the local security bureau and get an exit visa to leave China. However, once you have left China, you will have no other choice than to get a visa for your son to come back into China once he has exited. With luck you will be able to get a long term visa for him if you explain the situation.

Gale

 

My wife (Chinese) and I (American) had our first child this last August. My job ties me to China for the next 5 - 6 years. I'd like to take my son home to America so that he can meet his American family.

 

What is the best way to go about getting him issued a passport and visa?

 

An American passport seems like a no-brainer, but would cause problems once we return to China after a short visit to America. As I said above, all three of us will be in China for the next several years.

 

I need to find an option that will be the least amount of hassle in regards to passports, visas, etc.

 

Candid personal experience and stories would be a big help. Thanks in advance!

Another option is to see about getting a Chinese Passport too, China recognizes the child as a Chinese citizen until age 18 at which time the child decids to give up one or the other citizenship. Children under 18 are allowed dual citizenship.

 

Use the US passport to travel to USA and Chinese passport to return to China.

[kdavid3]

Another option is to see about getting a Chinese Passport too, China recognizes the child as a Chinese citizen until age 18 at which time the child decids to give up one or the other citizenship. Children under 18 are allowed dual citizenship.

 

Could you please supply a link to an official government website that states this?

 

I've heard this before, but have seen no official record that contradicts what is stated here: http://www.immd.gov.hk/ehtml/chnnationality_1.htm

 

Article 3 The People's Republic of China does not recognize dual nationality for any Chinese national.

 

It seems that even children would, by becoming an American citizen, automatically be renouncing their Chinese citizenship.

[Randy W]

Article 4 Any person born in China whose parents are both Chinese nationals or one of whose parents is a Chinese national shall have Chinese nationality.

 

Children born to a Chinese citizen and an American citizen parents thus have dual citizenship and may simply apply for an American passport (citizenship for both countries was granted at birth) - Chinese citizenship by Chinese law, and American citizenship by American law. No law is violated.

 

From the Dept of State:

China considers a child born within its borders to hold Chinese citizenship if one parent is a Chinese national, even if the child applies for and receives a U.S. passport while in China. In these cases, when parents want to travel overseas with their child, they should contact their local Public Security Bureau for information on obtaining a travel document (lu xing zheng).

 

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1089.html

Edited January 18, 2010 by Randy W (see edit history)

[Randy W]

I'm not sure where what I said about "age 18" came in - consider that hearsay.

 

There's a good discussion about this and the hukou issue at

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=534559

 

The child needs to renounce his Chinese citizenship by entering China on a foreign passport, but in order to do that he needs to leave China in the first place, hence the need for the exit permit.

 

I guess he could retain his dual citizenship for a while by not returning to China, or indefinitely by not LEAVING China.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Randy W (see edit history)

[thelocaldialect]

Right. What we've heard from the PSB in Beijing is that even children are not allowed dual citizenship. Using a foreign passport is considered an act of renouncing your Chinese citizenship. We asked about this particularly because we were planning a trip to Thailand last year and didn't realize you needed the exit permit to use your American passport. This is all explained under a section of the Chinese visa laws regarding "conflicting nationality." I have a link, but it is entirely in Chinese so I don't know if it would be much help?

 

Now I think it is possible to keep your kids' Chinese passport on the DL -- keep quiet about it -- and have both, but it is not what you're supposed to do and I imagine if at some point you were found out the Chinese authorities would force you (or your kid) to choose. Also, if you don't leave China, your kids don't technically need any sort of registration. They're just Chinese kids without hukous in the eyes of the government.

 

Honestly I would not get my child a Chinese passport or register him to your wife's hukou. Considering that American citizenship is easy to get, and the exit permit, while a bit of a hassle, is also relatively straightforward, there really isn't any advantage to being a registered Chinese citizen, especially if your wife's hukou isn't registered to someplace like Beijing or Shanghai, but is a countryside or small town hukou. In fact, it could actually be a disadvantage, since if your children are appearing on your wife's hukou book then you are opening yourself up to scrutiny under China's family planning laws. If your kids are only American citizens they can't do anything about it, but I know people who had their children put on the wife's hukou and who were subject to a bit of harassment by the local authorities over having too many kids. I've never heard of foreign/Chinese families being fined under family planning laws, but it is just a hassle you'd rather not deal with all the same.

[Randy W]

But do they in effect renounce their Chinese citizzenship by even getting the exit visa? Or is it only when they return to China with the American passport that that would happen?

[thelocaldialect]

But do they in effect renounce their Chinese citizzenship by even getting the exit visa? Or is it only when they return to China with the American passport that that would happen?

 

It is my understanding that returning to China on the US passport would be what renounces the Chinese citizenship, but I am not 100% positive. I had friends who needed to get the exit visa and the PSB would not issue it until they'd given up their Chinese hukou, which seems to sort of imply that getting the exit visa is linked to not having Chinese citizenship. Another acquaintance couldn't get the exit permit without applying first for a hukou, and then renouncing it, which just seems ridiculous and pointless, because why go through the hassle of getting a hukou just to turn around and give it up?!

 

My suspicion is that, as we often say (fondly) on another board that I frequent, this is a case of TIFC -- this is f'in China -- and different local PSBs interpret and enforce these laws in different ways. You'll see people with conflicting experiences regarding the Chinese beaurocracy all the time because the rules change depending on the time of day, the alignment of the planets, and the outcome of that particular officer's majiang game the night before.

[knloregon]

I guess I would discourage a duo passport passage between China and the US for a very young child----unless the child clearly looked of mixed blood. And not to hold two passports at the same time.

 

My experience (multiple times) in trying to exit China with my daughters when they were young, is that they always drew the attention of border officials, even though they always had the exact documentation necessary to exit China. First, of course, with Chinese passports, but even afterwards, on US passports.. The apparent problem is that exit visas (and passports) can be stolen----and specific age groups targeted---ie. I need an exit visa for my 6 yo girl--- so thieves look for that profile----in westerners in country---adopted (usually).

 

Or the second aspect----a child has been stolen from legitimate parents, and is set up with false documents to exit

 

The end result is that Chinese border patrols are particularly sensitive to insure these children don't exit China, since there is almost no chance to get them back.

 

So my advice, if the kid LOOKS Chinese, play it on the exact straight & narrow. Don't introduce anything into the national data base (which the border officials will be going through----furiously---and in great detail)---that could delay, particularly, your exit from China.

[kdavid3]

This is all explained under a section of the Chinese visa laws regarding "conflicting nationality." I have a link, but it is entirely in Chinese so I don't know if it would be much help?

 

I can read and speak fluent Mandarin, so this isn't a problem. Please provide the link.

 

My suspicion is that, as we often say (fondly) on another board that I frequent, this is a case of TIFC -- this is f'in China -- and different local PSBs interpret and enforce these laws in different ways. You'll see people with conflicting experiences regarding the Chinese beaurocracy all the time because the rules change depending on the time of day, the alignment of the planets, and the outcome of that particular officer's majiang game the night before.

 

I've been here long enough to be used to this. However, I'm not willing to gamble on the ²î²»¶à nature of big issues like this. The last thing I want is for anyone to be detained, deported, refused entry, etc.

 

At this stage, I'm pretty sure we're just going to go ahead and register him as an American, get his passport and exit visa, and go from there.

 

Now, the million dollar question is: how do I keep my son with me in China as an American with an American passport indefinitely? I have a work resident permit which is renewed each year. What about my son?

[yangxifu]

I 2nd the "dual citizenship isn't a possibility in China" info. I would also add that as this site daily reminds us, getting a long term US visa for loved ones is usually a very long and difficult process whereas it is very easy to get Chinese visas for loved ones (though admittedly the length of the visa can vary greatly between 3 months to 1 year)

 

My baby was also born a year ago in China (Feb 22- I can hardly believe it!!!), and we waited until she was 3 months old to make the trip to Beijing (the nearest US embassy to our residence) in order to do a report of birth abroad. We got a passport for her at the same time and a SSN so I can claim her on my taxes.

 

Next, we had to go to the local (local to where the baby was born; not local as in her parents hometown) PSB with her US passport in hand to file for her exit visa. We had some difficulty getting this due to the particularly locality and the extreme uncooperativeness of the PSB (in the end a red envelope greased the sticky wheel and we were able to get the exit permit).

 

The exit permit had a validity of only 3 or 6 months... I'll have to check which. If we let it expire we would have to return to the local PSB (again, local to the birthplace of the child) to get another one.

 

We were told by our local PSB that in order to renounce her Chinese citizenship, we had to take her back to the U.S. specifically, and that she would not be allowed to reenter China until doing so. However, we heard from others that any country would suffice, so we exited to Hong Kong where we very easily got her a Chinese L visa (for visiting relatives) and then reentered China. The embassy in Hong Kong insisted that they could only give her a 6 month visa, but that it could be renewed within China.

 

I have heard from another Chinese/American couple living in China with several children that these L visas (for visiting relatives) can not be continually renewed within China. I think she said the limit was 3 before having to return to your home county to renew. Personally, we haven't gotten that far yet... my baby's 1st Chinese visa expires next month and we are moving to the States before that.

 

 

Also, I was thinking that if you didn't already file for a report of birth abroad, then you may be interested in the following.

 

I believe the longer you wait the more difficult it is to get a report of birth abroad.

 

When we filed (our baby was 3 months old) the Consulate website didn't say that any proof of relationship was required other than our daughter's original Chinese birth certificate. So we didn't bring any. Both of the parents and the child are required to go to the consulate for a short interview in order to get the report of birth abroad.

 

When we were interviewed, the interviewer made a comment about my husband not speaking any English... might have just been off the cuff, but it felt like a strike against us. Then he asked to see proof of that I was indeed our daughters birth mother. I handed him the birth certificate. He asked me didn't I have any other proof. I said that the website didn't say I needed to bring any. (And I was thinking, "Do your really expect me to show you the scars!?") So he asked me to describe in some detail the birthing experience. I think I might have been a little too detailed 'cuz he handed the cert over pretty soon after that.

 

Anyway, I guess my point is that Americans adopt Chinese babies and the longer you wait to get a report of birth abroad the harder you might have to work at convincing the consulate that you not trying to pull a fast one to speed up adoption.

 

Best of luck to you!

[thelocaldialect]

This is all explained under a section of the Chinese visa laws regarding "conflicting nationality." I have a link, but it is entirely in Chinese so I don't know if it would be much help?

 

I can read and speak fluent Mandarin, so this isn't a problem. Please provide the link.

 

My suspicion is that, as we often say (fondly) on another board that I frequent, this is a case of TIFC -- this is f'in China -- and different local PSBs interpret and enforce these laws in different ways. You'll see people with conflicting experiences regarding the Chinese beaurocracy all the time because the rules change depending on the time of day, the alignment of the planets, and the outcome of that particular officer's majiang game the night before.

 

I've been here long enough to be used to this. However, I'm not willing to gamble on the ²î²»¶à nature of big issues like this. The last thing I want is for anyone to be detained, deported, refused entry, etc.

 

At this stage, I'm pretty sure we're just going to go ahead and register him as an American, get his passport and exit visa, and go from there.

 

Now, the million dollar question is: how do I keep my son with me in China as an American with an American passport indefinitely? I have a work resident permit which is renewed each year. What about my son?

 

Here's the link: Beijing Entry/ExitLook at article 4, where it says Òò¹ú¼®³åÍ»£¬³ÖÓÐÍâ¹ú»¤ÕÕ»ò¾ÓÁôÐí¿É²»ÒËÇ©·¢Öйú»¤ÕÕµÄ, that part. Keep in mind that this is for Beijing, and some smaller places might interpret/enforce the law differently. I'd just call up and ask. As it turns out, we have to get our kids' documents in Kunming because that's where my husband is from.

 

After you get the exit permit and exit, it is like yangxifu says, you will get visas for your kids. If you have a work visa your job can actually get residence permits for your kids, or your kids can get L visas (should be year long, but not always) based on their relationship to their Chinese mom (or dad, in our case).

 

knloregon gives another reason why dual citizenship is not a good idea. Kidnapping and human trafficking is a big concern in China and a parent leaving the country with an American passport while the kids are on Chinese passports could set off some people's red flags. I've actually had a couple of friends in international marriages in Japan have trouble taking their kids home, while traveling without their Japanese husbands, on the kids' Japanese passports, which they are allowed to have because Japan recognizes dual citizenship.

 

My experience with my Chinese husband applying for our son's American passport was actually fairly simple, and our son was nearly a year when we applied. I think the fact that our son looks very clearly mixed made the process simpler. He has very light hair and is quite obviously not an adopted Chinese baby. We brought a lot of stuff to prove that I had lived in America for 5 years after the age of 14, as the rules state, but they didn't ask to see anything, just gave us a bit of hassle for waiting till he was almost a year to apply and sent us on our way with a receipt for his passport.