k3 status

[warpedbored]

I am assuming she filed for advanced parole so she could travel to China before AOS. The question should be, if the I-130 is withdrawn is the advanced parole still valid. I seriously doubt it.

[keelec]

Interesting Dilemma,

 

I would hope that part of the 9/11 fallout would be the ability for the USA to track whether or not a visa is valid. The woman has had a documented divorce. I presume the divorce information was filed with the INS. This should invalidate her visa.

 

Hmmm, there was a lot of discussion about “Machine Readable Visas”….. I.E. A visa number that is embedded into the visa so that it could be tracked electronically. If this is the case, I would assume that it would be electronically invalidated as soon as the divorce papers were filed with the INS. Those members that actually have visas could indicate whether or not it appears as if the USA is actually using the Machine Readable Visas yet.

 

WHY WOULD THE USA EVER GRANT A VISA WITHOUT A CLAUSE INDICATING THAT IT COULD BE WITHDRAWN AT ANY TIME IF MITIGATING CIRCUMSTANCES INDICATED THAT IT SHOULD NO LONGER BE VALID? For example, if she was here on a straight K3 visa and committed certain crimes, she would be deported and have the visa cancelled. A divorce should be no different and the visa should be cancelled.

 

Unfortunately, the only way to be certain would be to come to the USA and hope to get in (with the risk of being put on the next plane back to China). If one called the INS to inquire whether the visa is valid, they would likely invalidate it.

 

If my Fiancée, Irina, could get a “tourist/visitor’s” visa to the USA, I would be extremely happy. Even if she had to return to Russia in 6 months or a year for an interview, that would be ok. I am sure she would be happy to have an excuse to visit her family, and we would be able spend the next year together rather than just holding onto e-mails.

 

If the woman had a valid visa to visit the USA, that would be a tremendous benefit, even if all of the processing had to begin again from scratch. She could be here in the USA, and just return to China after a year to have the interview as necessary. Assuming the interview went well, she could return to the USA once again with the new visa.

 

-------------------------

 

Now, a second way to approach the problem is:

 

If a person comes to the USA on a tourist visa, and returns to China as required, then it is supposed to be MUCH EASIER to get a second tourist visa for the next trip.

 

At this point, the woman may be able to apply for a standard tourist visa. She would be able to demonstrate to the INS officials that she had willingly returned to the USA after the prior divorce. With a little luck, she might be granted a tourist visa.

 

Or, perhaps she could start a small business and apply for a business visa, again assuring the immigration officer that while, at one time, she did come to the USA as a K3, she had returned to China once the visa was terminated. The trick would be to tell the truth, and to redirect questioning in the appropriate manner.

 

If a second (tourist/business) visa would be granted, then it is possible that future visas would be granted without interviews.

 

-----------------------------

 

One word of caution. I was advised against mixing visa types. It is possible that an application for a tourist visa while a K1/K3 visa application is pending would cause the K1/K3 visa to be cancelled.

[warpedbored]

One thing we have overlooked here is that a K-1, K-3 visa is one time use visa. It is no longer usable to enter the country once it has been entered in on once. This applies until the intended immigrant recieves probationary AOS for two years or advanced parole. The question then, is the AOS or advanced parole revoked. if the I-130 is withdrawn?

[Eric&Yuhui]

I am assuming she filed for advanced parole so she could travel to China before AOS.  The question should be, if the I-130 is withdrawn is the advanced parole still valid.  I seriously doubt it.

You're right. AP dies with the withdrawal...

AP is a "parole" document issued while the adjustment is being processed.. Meaning ..we "forgive" you for temporarily traveling ( the burden of proof that you are not abandonning your permanent residence application rests with the applicant ) while we burry your AOS application in the INBOX warehouse..Have fun overseas ! It'll still be burried when you come back !

 

I'm not a lawyer but will accept any checks for this short and unsubstanciated statement

Any currency.. Turkish liras preferred. I want to be a billionaire.

[warpedbored]

Whoa the train! Too much disinfo.

 

K-3 is a two-year multiple entry visa. AP is not  required. A K-3 can come and go as they wish while the visa is valid.

 

A marriage that terminates early - within two years - does not  automatically mean anything. The visa holder is the one who is filing for the benefit of adjusting status. They only need to prove that they  entered the marriage in good faith.

 

The I-130 has no bearing on the K-3 status. The AOS filed in conjunction with the K-3 replaces  the I-130. It's the I-130 that is terminated, not the K-3 at some point in the AOS process.

I believe you Don. You always do your home work. What puzzles me now though is if the K-3 is a multiple entry visa, why do you need AP or AOS to leave and re-enter the country? Perhaps the answer to my own question is if it is only valid for re-entry if accompanied with AP or AOS.

[warpedbored]

Thank you Don. The room has stopped spinning now.

[keelec]

A marriage that terminates early - within two years - does not  automatically mean anything. The visa holder is the one who is filing for the benefit of adjusting status. They only need to prove that they  entered the marriage in good faith.

Ok, Don.....

 

You seem to have too much inside info, are you sure you don't work for the INS?

 

Anyway,

so you are saying that the "status" of the applicant is only changed with:

 

1) Time (for example, 2 years expires)

2) Petition for an "upgrade" in status.

3) Some crime committed

 

Is the couple supposed to report the dissolved relationship/marriage to the INS? If they do report it, then what happens.

 

It just doesn't make any sense. If a condition of the visa is that a marriage exists. Then, if the marriage doesn't exist, then it would seem most logical that the visa doesn't exist.

 

------ Clifford -----

[Dave G.]

Okay...I'm jumping back in on this one.

 

Great reality testing by Don, as always. Makes sense.

 

I got busy yesterday so I couldn't finish my chat with CM. I read the posting and sat down to breakfast with JM. I posed the following hypothetical to her yesterday:

 

If you got a business visa to work at your cousin's restaurant, knowing full well that we were trying bypass the wait for a K1 visa (assuming the business visa was faster), would you have done it? Her answer was no. She didn't want to risk the chance of being "caught."

 

I've shared I worked in federal prisons before. Come on folks...face it. The US gov has power. Do you really want that power dumped squarely on your shoulders? Yeah...you'd likely get a way with it....the system is too disorganized. But, for me it's not worth it. I like keeping the gov OUT of my life. By following the rules, I do just that. Same reasons I file/pay taxes. If I didn't, I'd have the feds planted in my backyard for years. Nope...got better things to do than fight them. Does that make me a moral absolutist? Naw...just someone who knows how to fully enjoy what he has with the fewest hassles. Some might call it being a pussy too. You decide.

 

One last note to CM: After I explained the reason for asking they hypothetical to JM, I told her what the real story was. I heard long stories of "bad girls" in China who didn't want love in America...only the chance to live her. JM knows many. She cited [some] Air China stewardesses as examples. They know they are beautiful and slender. They work the planes looking for some rich dude to marry on trips to the US. They have no plans to stay with him...just to use him and his money to have a nice life and bring the entire family over. What does it cost them? A little uncomfortable sexual encounters from time to time. Of course, we know this is not the norm. But folks...it exists! JM felt that CM's example of that gal with the K3 fits the "bad girl" norm. Hell...JM didn't even want me talking to CM about it. Is JM a moral abosutist too? Or, does she also like to stay out of harm's way???

 

Thought???

 

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/sehrgrosse/large-smiley-007.gif

[Chairman Meow]

"If a woman comes here on a k3, finds out that her marriage isn't working, gets a divorce after three months in the USA, can she then remarry another American? Or must she start all over again from China? She had an AOS but the I-130 was withdrawn...."

 

The original question says she had AOS. Must mean filed AOS not finished or she would have her green card. Unless she withdraws the application, she will be scheduled for an interview. At that point, she only needs to convince the officer that she entered the marriage in good faith. Another question would be how long she had married prior to the divorce and interview.

 

AOS can be denied, but rarely is, and there is an appeal process.

 

I don't think the divorce is required to be reported prior to the AOS interview. At that time, the record should be updated.

 

The I-130 withdrawal can be done by the petitioner - the USC. He can also try to withdraw his I-864 and not attend the interview. It might raise some questions about the validity and reason she married, but a good story can win the day.

Right. She returned to China after filing the AOS but before the interview...

Her understanding is that she can come and go as she likes....I don't know if that is true or not......now she is back in China.....with her family. At this time they are legally separated but not yet divorced, although that seems imminent.

CM

[Chairman Meow]

Okay...I'm jumping back in on this one.

 

Great reality testing by Don, as always. Makes sense.

 

I got busy yesterday so I couldn't finish my chat with CM.  I read the posting and sat down to breakfast with JM.  I posed the following hypothetical to her yesterday:

 

If you got a business visa to work at your cousin's restaurant, knowing full well that we were trying bypass the wait for a K1 visa (assuming the business visa was faster), would you have done it?  Her answer was no.  She didn't want to risk the chance of being "caught." 

 

I've shared I worked in federal prisons before.  Come on folks...face it.  The US gov has power.  Do you really want that power dumped squarely on your shoulders?  Yeah...you'd likely get a way with it....the system is too disorganized.  But, for me it's not worth it.  I like keeping the gov OUT of my life.  By following the rules, I do just that.  Same reasons I file/pay taxes.  If I didn't, I'd have the feds planted in my backyard for years.  Nope...got better things to do than fight them.  Does that make me a moral absolutist?  Naw...just someone who knows how to fully enjoy what he has with the fewest hassles.  Some might call it being a pussy too.  You decide.

 

One last note to CM:  After I explained the reason for asking they hypothetical to JM, I told her what the real story was.  I heard long stories of "bad girls" in China who didn't want love in America...only the chance to live her.  JM knows many.  She cited [some]  Air China stewardesses as examples.  They know they are beautiful and slender.  They work the planes looking for some rich dude to marry on trips to the US.  They have no plans to stay with him...just to use him and his money to have a nice life and bring the entire family over.  What does it cost them?  A little uncomfortable sexual encounters from time to time.  Of course, we know this is not the norm.  But folks...it exists!  JM felt that CM's example of that gal with the K3 fits the "bad girl" norm.  Hell...JM didn't even want me talking to CM about it.  Is JM a moral abosutist too?  Or, does she also like to stay out of harm's way???

 

Thought???

 

http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0903/sehrgrosse/large-smiley-007.gif

Dave G.,

While this lady may fit the profile of a "bad girl," there are two holes in that idea....

1) Had she wanted to, she could have stayed...she had married in good faith, did the AOS, etc...she could have demanded a lot more before leaving...she asked for nothing and returned to China of her own accord.

2) she did not initiate this question - she has no intention to do anything at this point in regards to coming back - I am the one who asked a "hypothetical" , wanting to know what her options were for the future...just curious.....

CM

[Chairman Meow]

It seems to me that in returning to China, and starting the entire process over, she would only be obeying the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law....afterall, she already passed god only knows how many clearances...she has permision to live in this country for two years legally...so what's really bugging you guys is that she came over with one guy, and then, when that didn't work out, stayed on with another? Is that right?

What if her divorce was not her choice? what if he opted out? she must go back? Not only does she lose face in her home country amongst her family and friends but then we should exile her as well?

Furthermore, what about the rights of the American man, who meets a woman who legally has the right to be in this country - he should be deprived of her company because of the strict enforcement of the law? ReallY?

Lastly, it was suggsted that she may fit the profile of a "bad girl..." can anyone explain to me what the characteristics are? do we dare go there?

CM

[Chairman Meow]

Could she return to the the USA, live with someone else, and then if they decide to marry, initiate paperwork while here in the states but return to china for the interview? thanks,

CM

[se_lang]

Look at it this way

1. she is still married so she has to return to US to go to court for her divorce, many states require a waiting period after a divorce before getting married again.

 

2. If she was a "Bad Girl" she could have just jumped in bed with someone else or done many other things to stay, but she returned to China.

 

3. Relationships fail, look at Chinadave he didn't even get to the "I do" part so 3 months into a marriage is ok.

 

My advice is have her return and fight for her rights "By the law" but if she has to return to China then so be it, Basicly do the right thing and let the card fall where they will.

[keelec]

It seems to me that in returning to China, and starting the entire process over, she would only be obeying the letter of the law, rather than the spirit of the law....afterall, she already passed god only knows how many clearances...

No,

 

I think you have it backwards.

 

Assuming Don is correct, staying in the USA to seek another spouse would be following “the Letter of the Law”.

 

Returning to China would be following the “Spirit of the Law”.

 

Occasionally an American Citizen will fall in love with a foreign citizen. Sometimes it is during travels. Sometimes while doing business internationally, or otherwise working internationally. Several members of the Candle were working in China and happened to meet a loved one. The K1-K4 immigration laws were written to help facilitate AMERICAN CITIZENS to bring their loved ones back home with them.

 

This bred a business of “Mail-Order-Brides”. Actually it is a very old business which existed even before Visas were invented. However, with computers, telephones, and e-mail, along with no longer needing to increase the US population, the business has evolved considerably.

 

Women use the “Mail-Order-Bride” business to improve their lives through marrying a man in a different country. Likewise, men also use it to find someone very special for improving their lives.

 

The laws are not written to facilitate women finding and marrying a “Rich American”, but rather to allow the American to marry (and live with) the woman he loves no matter whether she is an American, or from another country.

 

The INS does everything it can possibly do to discourage the “Mail-Order-Bride” business. But, unfortunately, it is far too difficult to rank the validity of one person’s love, relationship, or marriage over another’s.

 

The difficult things in this case are:

1) Should she find and meet another American that would want to bring her back to the USA, the visa clearances would have to be repeated. And, it would likely mean an additional year wait (assuming she was lucky enough to find someone she loved). I see no indication that the USA would bother streamlining the process for someone who had already been through it once. And, obviously there would be no reason to repeat all of the checks. But, of course, most of our applications seem to spend more time sitting someplace than actually being processed.

 

2) It would likely be easier for her to meet someone to make a long term, stable relationship with if she was already in the USA (and didn’t just opt for a “marriage of convenience”.

 

3) She already has what seems to be a valid visa to the USA. If she returned to the USA, even if she overstayed her visa, she would likely be able to remarry, and remain in the USA during processing of the new visa.

 

4) HOW WILL SHE PAY FOR THE RETURN AIRLINE TICKET AND THE COST TO STAY IN THE USA? I assume she doesn’t have a green card yet, and may not be able to get one if the marriage is dissolved. I guess I will have to carefully read the affidavit of support. I thought it was to indicate that a person had the means to support a family while married, not necessarily to indefinitely support her if the marriage is dissolved. (Alimony Agreements?)

 

5) She doesn’t HAVE to attend the divorce proceedings. I believe that the ex-husband just needs to show that he made a “reasonable effort” to invite her, and that she didn’t bother to show up.

 

Now, one other note.

One might consider the marriage to be only 3-months. In reality, it is at least 1 year and 3 months.

 

------ Clifford ------

[Joseph-1]

Really, what we are talking about is "FEAR" Fear that our beloved has used us as the All American Patsy. Some people are cold enough to do that. We played the game and we all ask ourselves "What Was I Thinking" but even so we have to admit that we are insecure or we would not make it a priority to know. We men want to know if we have all been made fools of and if our women have not taken us by the bean bag and we overruled our good sense. If so we have only ourselves to blame. Can they find another guy and dump us? Probably So. Would they get away with it? Maybe. I find it unlikely that if my wife dumped me for another fella that she would be required by law to stay with me. We cannott own another human being,even when we have been the unwitting hero. We cannott enforce morality nor can we legislate loyalty. Whether or not to harm is a decision that is left to the individual concience.