US and China Frenemies?

[Jeikun]

Interesting background on ethnic makeup of Japanese, Jason.

 

My sources are antidotal (except the Dutch part---read in my past a western historical source that attributed this influence in Japan's racial makeup, the Dutch were in Japan long enough to have that kind of an influence)

 

But mostly, its from my Chinese family, (not supporters of the Japanese) who love to point out the waves of Chinese invading Japan over the centuries, settling huge Chinese communities, which traded routinely with China, introducing Confusian thought and Taoism, which informed Japanese design and life style even more than in China, and in fact----that kanji----the oldest surviving written language in Japan-----is Chinese----and Han....

 

 

Yes, the oldest recorded mention of Japan is in Chinese texts and it was referred to as "the kingdom of the slaves" basically. And it was Chinese who taught Japanese to read and write. Even their other writing systems Katakana and Hiragana are based from Chinese characters.

 

But Chinese love to overstate the influence of China in Japan, just like Koreans love to do the same. (My Korean teacher used to tell me how Japanese were all decended from Korean political exiles and criminals).

 

I would also question the veracity of the book stating dutch intermixed enough to alter Japanese racial makeup. How long ago did you find that source? I only ask because the influence of the Ainu wasn't so obvious until fairly recently, and in past decades western sources loved to make the west seem way more important than they are (as you well know). For one, the west had to consider Japan as more of an equal earlier than they did the other asian nations, so considering them to have white blood was a good excuse...

[knloregon]

"....so considering them to have white blood was a good excuse... "

 

Sorry Jason, can't remember the exact source---maybe 15, 20 years ago? but you have to admit---having a bunch of mixed race children running around the Dutch merchant's house is sort of proof-positive of racial intermingling, and if memory serves, they were there long enough to have a racial impact at least in the more populated cities.

 

I think most concede that the same happened here in the US during our colonial times, (and to this day) even though the black slaves were considered well below whites socially, as were the native Americans..

[Jeikun]

"....so considering them to have white blood was a good excuse... "

 

Sorry Jason, can't remember the exact source---maybe 15, 20 years ago? but you have to admit---having a bunch of mixed race children running around the Dutch merchant's house is sort of proof-positive of racial intermingling, and if memory serves, they were there long enough to have a racial impact at least in the more populated cities.

 

I think most concede that the same happened here in the US during our colonial times, (and to this day) even though the black slaves were considered well below whites socially, as were the native Americans..

 

 

I'd be interested to see the source. But from what I had read the Dutch presence in Japan was not large enough to alter the racial characteristics of the general population. Also There's no significant (observed) difference from 16th century Japanese and 21st century Japanese.

 

Although anecdotally, I can see where there was at least some effect. A Japanese friend some years ago had a friend who married an Englishman. Their daughter came out with blonde hair and blue eyes... her friend as far as she knew was "pure Japanese", but it would be impossible for her to have a blonde blue eyed daughter unless she was carrying those caucasian genes.

 

One interesting thing is (though with people moving so freely now it is changing) that southwestern Japanese nearer to the coast facing Korea tend to have more Korean and/or Chinese like traits (smaller nose bridge, wider jawbone, opaque skin), while those in the north and into Hokkaido tend to have more Ainu influenced traits (Deep set eyes, prominent nose bridge, translucent skin). I never heard about Japanese around Nagasaki having more caucasian traits, but I'll see what I can find. I always thought ethnicity and the evolution of language as people migrated around the world was an interesting subject.