so we are she

[warpedbored]

When my wife first got here she would sometimes confuse her pronouns but always had the gender correct. I remember once talking to a friend of ours and told my wife I was talking to Gwen. She replied "tell she I say hello."

[Rob and WeiLing]

Ta sounds the same for both he or she but they are written different.

---------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun

 

"In modern Chinese, there is no gender distinction in pronouns in the spoken language: the pronoun Ëû (t¨¡) means 'he', 'she' or 'it'. However, around the time of the May Fourth Movement, a new written form Ëý of the pronoun was created to specifically represent 'she', and Ëû is now sometimes restricted to meaning 'he'."

 

That is fascinating. Chinese culture seems to be moving away from gender-neutral pronouns, while American culture has been pushed toward them. (wikipedia/Singular_they#Gender-neutral_language_movement).

 

In my own experience, WeiLing has always been conscious of the (previously mentioned) Western focus on gender. When describing mixed-gender groups, she'll commonly type "Ëû£¨Ëý£©ÃÇ", and is very receptive to my corrections when she misuses "he/she" or "his/her" on the phone. She's made great strides, but is still plagued by one pronoun-related problem. WeiLing is uncomfortable pronouncing "her." Instead, she'll just say "he" and drop the r. She's aware of the differences between pronouns, but just can't jump this hurdle. Anyone else run into this problem?

[david_dawei]

Ta sounds the same for both he or she but they are written different.

---------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun

 

"In modern Chinese, there is no gender distinction in pronouns in the spoken language: the pronoun 他 (tā) means 'he', 'she' or 'it'. However, around the time of the May Fourth Movement, a new written form 她 of the pronoun was created to specifically represent 'she', and 他 is now sometimes restricted to meaning 'he'."

I thought I had read that the masculine character 'ta' was acceptable for either gender (particularly if a group of people); but the feminine character 'ta' was only for women. So, i wonder, if, when in doubt, a masculine may come out(?).

 

But add together some odd linguistic aspects:

1. Chinese has one to many compared to some English usage

2. Lack of use of personal first name, replaced by generalized names

3. Grammar rules which don't sync with English

4. Often times, the context explains the word; those there or those missing

 

What interests me alot is the influence (or interconnection) of this on thoughts and action... but maybe that's another thread !

 

As an added note: subject and pronouns are sometimes left out in writings/poems; maybe more popular and classical... which often leads to varying translations

Edited June 28, 2009 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[Guest Pommey]

I dont know David, but seems everyone is a "she" will make mikey happy

[weiaijiayou]

[quote name='DavidZixuan' date='Jun 28 2009, 05:03 PM'

I thought I had read that the masculine character 'ta' was acceptable for either gender (particularly if a group of people); but the feminine character 'ta' was only for women. So, i wonder, if, when in doubt, a masculine may come out(?).

 

seems right to me. i'm not chinese, but i always write ËýÃÇ if every person in the group is female, and ËûÃÇ if there is a mix of women and men or only men. you could also write ËûÃÇ for a group of women, but never ËýÃÇ for men...

 

[quote name='DavidZixuan' date='Jun 28 2009, 05:03 PM'

As an added note: subject and pronouns are sometimes left out in writings/poems; maybe more popular and classical... which often leads to varying translations

 

i think this "pro-drop" aspect of chinese language confuses a lot of westerners when they first start learning chinese. a common reply like "»¹¿ÉÒÔ" is so simple it's mind-blowing at first. i remember when i started to learn chinese i wanted to make everything way more explicit -- and therefore way more complicated -- than it needed to be.

Edited June 30, 2009 by weiaijiayou (see edit history)

[Randy W]

There are many cases where you might correct your spouse in grammar, by saying, "don't say that! Say this instead", the only difference being that "this" is grammatically correct. We recogize "that" as being grammatically or situationally incorrect, even though it would mean exactly what the speaker intended.

 

Chinese doesn't have the ambiguities (at least not nearly as many)

 

The pronouns are often redundant

Edited June 30, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)