I looka lika Zhong guo ren

[knloregon]

...all good points... I'd have to live there, though, to get to your point, Bill..

 

...the other thing is to compare that to the trials of Chinese in the US-----or those who want to be... No racism there? I've been through the visa process three times now, and I'm plenty jaded about Chinese prospects in America, or trying to come here.... I can go to China any time.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

...My opinion is that GZBill offers a cynical, but legitimate perspective as an ex-pat in China. I think he has been there for a considerable amount of time, and is fluent in Cantonese, at least. An asset to The Candle.

 

 

Bill is the real deal. He's here, and has the value of personal experience. I can see how any American would become cynical living in China over a long period of time. I'm sure if he thinks back hard enough, he will remember the rosy early days.

 

I do remember them ... and most of those rosy days do continue until now. But not all.

 

Someone mentioned or implied that racism and discrimination are not problems exclusive to China. This is true. But racism and discrimination in China are institutionalized to such an extent that, in many cases, it defies logic.

 

There are quite a few people on this forum currently living and working in China. I dare any of them to walk into any bank in China -- even the so-called foreign banks -- and apply on your own for a credit card. 99.9% of the time, in the end your application will be declined because -- and they usually will put it bluntly -- you are not Chinese.

 

Up until just recently, you could not open cellular service on any terms other than pre-pay if you were not Chinese.

 

Try getting home phone, gas or electricity service in your name even if you happen to own the home.

 

 

I agree Bill. I'm only now beginning to learn about and see some of these things happening. I made a post here on CFL quite a while back about transferring money to my US bank account. Because I still have financial obligations in America, I need to transfer money there every month. However, my wife must make that transfer, even though my Chinese bank account is listed in my name only. My employer deposits my pay directly into that bank account.

 

A short time ago, my wife had to travel to the US for biometrics for her ten-year green card. While she was gone, I needed to make that transfer from China to the US. I had all the paperwork completed as I should, using previous forms. I took them with me to the bank of China, and was told in no uncertain terms, that I could not make the transfer because I was not Chinese. I then asked one of my Chinese co-workers to complete the transaction and transfer, and it was completed easily and quickly.

 

It is my wife, who established all our cell phone accounts, home telephone, cable, water, gas, and so on. She is the one that makes the payments every month. I've never done it, and wouldn't have a clue where to start.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Prejudice started when Cain slewed Abel.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Tony n Terrific (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

Prejudice started when Cain slewed Able.

 

That little story was more related to "jealousy," rather than prejudice. Cain was reported by the media at that time, as having killed (slew, slay, slayed, slain) his brother because the big guy liked him better.

 

Prejudice:noun: a partiality that prevents objective consideration of an issue or situation

[whome?]

...My opinion is that GZBill offers a cynical, but legitimate perspective as an ex-pat in China. I think he has been there for a considerable amount of time, and is fluent in Cantonese, at least. An asset to The Candle.

 

 

Bill is the real deal. He's here, and has the value of personal experience. I can see how any American would become cynical living in China over a long period of time. I'm sure if he thinks back hard enough, he will remember the rosy early days.

 

I do remember them ... and most of those rosy days do continue until now. But not all.

 

Someone mentioned or implied that racism and discrimination are not problems exclusive to China. This is true. But racism and discrimination in China are institutionalized to such an extent that, in many cases, it defies logic.

 

Ever tried getting a visa for your Chinese spouse ... or for had a Chinese person you know want to get a visa to visit the US? Compare that to what it took for you to get a visa/apporval to come to China --

 

 

There are quite a few people on this forum currently living and working in China. I dare any of them to walk into any bank in China -- even the so-called foreign banks -- and apply on your own for a credit card. 99.9% of the time, in the end your application will be declined because -- and they usually will put it bluntly -- you are not Chinese.

 

I must be one of the 0.1% since Bank of China gave me one ... of course it took me 6 months and providing a copy of my passport 5 different times.

 

Up until just recently, you could not open cellular service on any terms other than pre-pay if you were not Chinese.

 

The pre-pay is true for many Chinese also and depends on the company and where you are in China (north/south/etc and small/large city. etc)True - but now you can

 

Try getting home phone, gas or electricity service in your name even if you happen to own the home.

 

Again .. maybe it is related to location in China. Not a problem for me. My company did help but everything is in my name.

 

I do not consider what you describe as racism but rather a service economy that is still trying to understand the meaning of "customer service" ...

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

...My opinion is that GZBill offers a cynical, but legitimate perspective as an ex-pat in China. I think he has been there for a considerable amount of time, and is fluent in Cantonese, at least. An asset to The Candle.

 

 

Bill is the real deal. He's here, and has the value of personal experience. I can see how any American would become cynical living in China over a long period of time. I'm sure if he thinks back hard enough, he will remember the rosy early days.

 

I do remember them ... and most of those rosy days do continue until now. But not all.

 

Someone mentioned or implied that racism and discrimination are not problems exclusive to China. This is true. But racism and discrimination in China are institutionalized to such an extent that, in many cases, it defies logic.

 

Ever tried getting a visa for your Chinese spouse ... or for had a Chinese person you know want to get a visa to visit the US? Compare that to what it took for you to get a visa/apporval to come to China --

 

 

There are quite a few people on this forum currently living and working in China. I dare any of them to walk into any bank in China -- even the so-called foreign banks -- and apply on your own for a credit card. 99.9% of the time, in the end your application will be declined because -- and they usually will put it bluntly -- you are not Chinese.

 

I must be one of the 0.1% since Bank of China gave me one ... of course it took me 6 months and providing a copy of my passport 5 different times.

 

Up until just recently, you could not open cellular service on any terms other than pre-pay if you were not Chinese.

 

The pre-pay is true for many Chinese also and depends on the company and where you are in China (north/south/etc and small/large city. etc)True - but now you can

 

Try getting home phone, gas or electricity service in your name even if you happen to own the home.

 

Again .. maybe it is related to location in China. Not a problem for me. My company did help but everything is in my name.

 

I do not consider what you describe as racism but rather a service economy that is still trying to understand the meaning of "customer service" ...

 

 

Let me also be clear about this. I do NOT consider the Chinese as being racist regarding any of these issues. The word "racism," is over-used and usually incorrectly these days. If you look up the definition, it has nothing at all to do with how the Chinese behave to foreigners. Racism manifests itself in a way that there is no mistaking it. It is outright hatred and obsession that your race is superior and that other races should be eradicated through any means necessary.

 

If you were not born in China, then you will always be a foreigner, unless you look like a Chinese person and can speak like one also. It's really not surprising though. It's not a nation of immigrants like the US.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Talk about predjudice. Take a look at the binding contract we have to sign with the I 864 agreement. These anti-American insecure SOBs who fawn off of the American taxpayer and dream up this stuff are the 1st to call you a bigot if you do not have X number of woman or minorites working for you.

[whome?]

If you were not born in China, then you will always be a foreigner, unless you look like a Chinese person and can speak like one also. It's really not surprising though. It's not a nation of immigrants like the US.

 

That's a good point Jesse. I was looking for a reason why the Chinese see us a so very different in regards to giving you cell phone service, banks, etc. and I could only come up with the fact that in the past customer service never really mattered and they had no competition thus no need to try and get customers to choose them...

 

But you make a very good point also in they are not as used to seeing and interacting with people from different cultures.

 

For the record I too have had this problem with the bank transfer from China back to USA. Even though I was able to get the credit card basis my own bank account (with a friend helping me with the application process since even though they could speak English they refused to discuss it with me) I have to get my wife to transfer money from my account in China to my account in USA. Interesting that it is never a problem for me to transfer money from my account in USA to my China account ..

 

It is also interesting that in China they do not allow joint bank accounts .. does not matter if you are Chinese or Foreign...and it seems that all married Chinese have an account for the wife and one for the husband or else they have one account in the wife's name.

[GZBILL]

If you were not born in China, then you will always be a foreigner, unless you look like a Chinese person and can speak like one also. It's really not surprising though. It's not a nation of immigrants like the US.

 

That's a good point Jesse. I was looking for a reason why the Chinese see us a so very different in regards to giving you cell phone service, banks, etc. and I could only come up with the fact that in the past customer service never really mattered and they had no competition thus no need to try and get customers to choose them...

 

But you make a very good point also in they are not as used to seeing and interacting with people from different cultures.

 

For the record I too have had this problem with the bank transfer from China back to USA. Even though I was able to get the credit card basis my own bank account (with a friend helping me with the application process since even though they could speak English they refused to discuss it with me) I have to get my wife to transfer money from my account in China to my account in USA. Interesting that it is never a problem for me to transfer money from my account in USA to my China account ..

 

It is also interesting that in China they do not allow joint bank accounts .. does not matter if you are Chinese or Foreign...and it seems that all married Chinese have an account for the wife and one for the husband or else they have one account in the wife's name.

 

For painless currency conversion and international remittances -- all in English -- open an account at ICBC and register for their online banking. B)

 

Joint accounts are a new old concept here. They used to have them before the liberation, but ended them. Now they are just starting to reappear.

[GZBILL]

...My opinion is that GZBill offers a cynical, but legitimate perspective as an ex-pat in China. I think he has been there for a considerable amount of time, and is fluent in Cantonese, at least. An asset to The Candle.

 

 

Bill is the real deal. He's here, and has the value of personal experience. I can see how any American would become cynical living in China over a long period of time. I'm sure if he thinks back hard enough, he will remember the rosy early days.

 

I do remember them ... and most of those rosy days do continue until now. But not all.

 

Someone mentioned or implied that racism and discrimination are not problems exclusive to China. This is true. But racism and discrimination in China are institutionalized to such an extent that, in many cases, it defies logic.

 

Ever tried getting a visa for your Chinese spouse ... or for had a Chinese person you know want to get a visa to visit the US? Compare that to what it took for you to get a visa/apporval to come to China --

 

 

There are quite a few people on this forum currently living and working in China. I dare any of them to walk into any bank in China -- even the so-called foreign banks -- and apply on your own for a credit card. 99.9% of the time, in the end your application will be declined because -- and they usually will put it bluntly -- you are not Chinese.

 

I must be one of the 0.1% since Bank of China gave me one ... of course it took me 6 months and providing a copy of my passport 5 different times.

 

Up until just recently, you could not open cellular service on any terms other than pre-pay if you were not Chinese.

 

The pre-pay is true for many Chinese also and depends on the company and where you are in China (north/south/etc and small/large city. etc)True - but now you can

 

Try getting home phone, gas or electricity service in your name even if you happen to own the home.

 

Again .. maybe it is related to location in China. Not a problem for me. My company did help but everything is in my name.

 

I also have been able to obtain credit -- now quit easily. But the vast majority of expats here are denied credit unless they meet certain specific conditions whereas practically any Chinese high school student can easily obtain a credit card. Again, the issue is race.

 

There is only pre-pay now in southern China, but in Beijing you can get on a billing plan but only after placing an initial security deposit. Local Beijing residents are exempt from that.

 

Getting utilities in your name without being the owner of the property is tough. But as an expat, even owning the property they'll try and get you to find a Chinese relative or invent one. I am pretty lucky because I know how to deal with the issue, but I have several friends who were forced to put up a security deposit to get utility service in their own name in spite of owning the property.

 

I do not consider what you describe as racism but rather a service economy that is still trying to understand the meaning of "customer service" ...

 

My dictionary calls taking adverse action against a person exclusively because of their race racism.

[carl.hops]

There are definitely different degrees of racism, some like to think that the less humiliating kind don't qualify, but they do. And yes, it exists everywhere, in varying degree's, I didn't plan to make this a racism post though, just a funny story.

[weiaijiayou]

when i mentioned today about going back to china, my wife said that when she goes outside or walks into a restaurant with me in china she has a "Ïñ·¸×ïÄÇÖָоõ", in other words, people make her feel like she's committing a crime. it's a strong enough feeling that she says she'd rather live here.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

when i mentioned today about going back to china, my wife said that when she goes outside or walks into a restaurant with me in china she has a "Ïñ·¸×ïÄÇÖָоõ", in other words, people make her feel like she's committing a crime. it's a strong enough feeling that she says she'd rather live here.

 

I've never once heard that from my wife, or any other Chinese person when we go to a restaurant or any other place. I've always been treated kindly by everyone. If they feel embarrassed, or like a criminal, it's got to be one of the most well-hidden emotions I've ever witnessed on earth.

[GZBILL]

Sometimes it might just be a case of feeling self-conscious.

 

Funny, but I've made some very good friends from those who have made insensitive comments that they foolishly believed I didn't understand and I subsequently verbally ripped them apart in public for it.

 

One of my favorites has to be in the elevator when a couple and their child were talking about what a big nose the foreigner has. So I pretended to be talking to my imaginary kid and commented in Chinese about the mother's anatomy. Funny as all hell!

[whome?]

 

I also have been able to obtain credit -- now quit easily. But the vast majority of expats here are denied credit unless they meet certain specific conditions whereas practically any Chinese high school student can easily obtain a credit card. Again, the issue is race.

 

There is only pre-pay now in southern China, but in Beijing you can get on a billing plan but only after placing an initial security deposit. Local Beijing residents are exempt from that.

 

Getting utilities in your name without being the owner of the property is tough. But as an expat, even owning the property they'll try and get you to find a Chinese relative or invent one. I am pretty lucky because I know how to deal with the issue, but I have several friends who were forced to put up a security deposit to get utility service in their own name in spite of owning the property.

 

My dictionary calls taking adverse action against a person exclusively because of their race racism.

 

I usually agree with a lot of what you say but I still find this not to be racism or so different from anywhere else.

 

Makes sense to me that there are stricter conditions to give credit to foreigner than to a Chinese person ... more than likely the Chinese person cannot just leave China without paying the credit card bills...an expat can ...

 

As far as secuity deposits for utilities ... I own my own house in USA and I had to pay security deposits to get water and electrical service. They still have my deposits after 16 years. I think this is fairly common in the USA also.

Edited June 19, 2009 by whome? (see edit history)