I looka lika Zhong guo ren

[whome?]

Sometimes it might just be a case of feeling self-conscious.

 

Funny, but I've made some very good friends from those who have made insensitive comments that they foolishly believed I didn't understand and I subsequently verbally ripped them apart in public for it.

 

One of my favorites has to be in the elevator when a couple and their child were talking about what a big nose the foreigner has. So I pretended to be talking to my imaginary kid and commented in Chinese about the mother's anatomy. Funny as all hell!

 

Funny ,,,

[knloregon]

now (I think) we're getting somewhere...

 

Personally, my opinion is that banking is a lousy example, mostly, since service is so bad at all Chinese banks. Imagine Bank of China lasting even one year in America--- "take a number and sit down!" (the security guard).

 

Then try to cash a traveler's check---BOC the only place that will dependably take TC's---expect an emotional, and time consuming experience---clerk holding it up to the light, calling over managers, also holding up to the light---coming back to ask for even more ID... all about covering their asses really..

 

But Bill makes a point, and it is about China, and foreigners --- when I was first there in 1997---to meet my first daughter, one of the women on the street who surrounded us---as they always did in the early 'novel' days of international adoption---stated something that I thought was telling---- " ...very good! Adopt a Chinese daughter and improve your family line!"

 

Sure, I know I should be offended by that, but I think some here would admit---maybe there is something to it-----it wasn't on a whim that we all went to China to find wives...

 

Does that excuse poor behavior by Chinese towards westerners? It doesn't. And as they gain more international experience in customer service, it will improve---as Bill suggests---vote with your dollars to those businesses which treat you better----one thing you can be sure of in China, over America---they want your business---they just haven't figured out exactly how to get it.

[weiaijiayou]

I've never once heard that from my wife, or any other Chinese person when we go to a restaurant or any other place.

I doubt most people would say to you or me that they are feeling animosity from random chinese people because of being seen with us. that in itself is somewhat embarrassing and is rather critical of chinese.

 

I've always been treated kindly by everyone.

Are you serious? I want to live where you live.

 

If they feel embarrassed, or like a criminal, it's got to be one of the most well-hidden emotions I've ever witnessed on earth.

i'm not saying that all or most other chinese people feel the way my wife feels in response to what they experience. my wife is a very sensitive person. but i don't doubt for a minute that you and your wife experience glances, subtle comments, and the kind of treatment that prompted my wife's comment on an almost daily basis. put it this way: the vast majority of people in china are NOT going to treat your wife and you like two ordinary people. i can't imagine anyone disputing that comment. sometimes the special treatment is cute and nice, sometimes it is (usually passively) hostile. brash things are often said between two people with smiles on their faces. (e.g., "they're probably going to get married!") i imagine that many chinese women who would marry a westerner would be likely to brush-off things like that easily and forget them.

[weiaijiayou]

when I was first there in 1997---to meet my first daughter, one of the women on the street who surrounded us---as they always did in the early 'novel' days of international adoption---stated something that I thought was telling---- " ...very good! Adopt a Chinese daughter and improve your family line!"

this reminds me of something a chinese woman said a few days ago at a chinese restaurant. i got some napkins and wiped off a tray before handing it to her. she said to my wife, "wow, he has such good manners. he must have studied chinese people!"

[GZBILL]

 

I also have been able to obtain credit -- now quit easily. But the vast majority of expats here are denied credit unless they meet certain specific conditions whereas practically any Chinese high school student can easily obtain a credit card. Again, the issue is race.

 

There is only pre-pay now in southern China, but in Beijing you can get on a billing plan but only after placing an initial security deposit. Local Beijing residents are exempt from that.

 

Getting utilities in your name without being the owner of the property is tough. But as an expat, even owning the property they'll try and get you to find a Chinese relative or invent one. I am pretty lucky because I know how to deal with the issue, but I have several friends who were forced to put up a security deposit to get utility service in their own name in spite of owning the property.

 

My dictionary calls taking adverse action against a person exclusively because of their race racism.

 

I usually agree with a lot of what you say but I still find this not to be racism or so different from anywhere else.

 

Makes sense to me that there are stricter conditions to give credit to foreigner than to a Chinese person ... more than likely the Chinese person cannot just leave China without paying the credit card bills...an expat can ...

 

Millions of Chinese people have immigrated to Canada / Australia and, to a lesser extent, over the last couple of years. There are several hundred thousand that are immigrating in 2009 alone. That they worry about a few hundred expats stealing 10,000 RMB and not untold amounts of Chinese is nothing but racism.

 

They give credit to any student with a pulse in spite of the fact that the default rate for students is over 75%. An expat working for a decent company who earns 20,000+ RMB per year is denied. Racism.

 

If it were to happen in the US, see how fast multi-billion $ lawsuits are filed ... and won.

 

I'm lucky. I can get anything I ask for at virtually any bank in China. I have expat employees earning 75k RMB per month who get declined left and right ... until I call the bank and put in the good word.

[GZBILL]

 

 

As far as secuity deposits for utilities ... I own my own house in USA and I had to pay security deposits to get water and electrical service. They still have my deposits after 16 years. I think this is fairly common in the USA also.

 

 

If you have to pay a security deposit for utilities and your next door neighbor -- whose economic and credit conditions are identical to yours -- doesn't and he's of a different race, you're in line to win a million dollar discrimination lawsuit.

 

Too bad you can't sue like that in China.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

In my travels to China I never felt any predjudice towards me. Mostly I was treated very kindly and with respect from people. Yea I recieved some stares like I was from Planet X but that was about it.

I am sure there is predjudice in any part of China. Look around here in the US we are not exempt from it. Jeff Foxworthy's "You might be a Redneck if" is a substitute for ethinic slurs that use to be hurled at Polish, Italians, Jews and Blacks to name a few.

[Guest jin979]

I have opened many accounts here in Usa from wireless card to electric always ask for security deposit, up to $400.

 

However most I decline as I now just open Accounts with Hua Rin (chinese in USA) no deposit required and service better and mostly half the price for monthly bill.

 

This reinforcess GZbill that institutional racism exists and I add in both countries.

 

As for people in china, yes some see chinese women with Lao Wai as low, however we have seen this here as many whites here see Rob as low as he has married chinese. We have experienced this here as I think many of have or will.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

I have taken some good natured kidding about being married to a Chinese gal now. Some of those guys wish they had the confidance in themselves to venture outside their little fiefdoms. I have had some run ins with a relative over my course of action. I have also been told by an ex lady friend why would I want one of those things as a wife. Things? Jealousy, fear, ignorance? It most likely a little bit of all. A number of years ago my son told me that a Chinese girl had a crush on him and what should he do about about it. I told him that she should stay with her kind and he should stay with his kind. This was my ignorance showing and the fear of the unknown. 10 years latter I am standing in Nanning, China, married to fine woman. Things do change for the best.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

..

Edited June 20, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I've never once heard that from my wife, or any other Chinese person when we go to a restaurant or any other place.

I doubt most people would say to you or me that they are feeling animosity from random chinese people because of being seen with us. that in itself is somewhat embarrassing and is rather critical of chinese.

 

I've always been treated kindly by everyone.

Are you serious? I want to live where you live.

 

If they feel embarrassed, or like a criminal, it's got to be one of the most well-hidden emotions I've ever witnessed on earth.

i'm not saying that all or most other chinese people feel the way my wife feels in response to what they experience. my wife is a very sensitive person. but i don't doubt for a minute that you and your wife experience glances, subtle comments, and the kind of treatment that prompted my wife's comment on an almost daily basis. put it this way: the vast majority of people in china are NOT going to treat your wife and you like two ordinary people. i can't imagine anyone disputing that comment. sometimes the special treatment is cute and nice, sometimes it is (usually passively) hostile. brash things are often said between two people with smiles on their faces. (e.g., "they're probably going to get married!") i imagine that many chinese women who would marry a westerner would be likely to brush-off things like that easily and forget them.

 

Sounds like you're quite sensitive as to what you think others may be thinking. I didn't take the time to conduct a scientific poll and analysis as to how interracial marriages are perceived in China, or anywhere else in the world. I do pay pretty close attention to what my family and friends, and what my wife's family and friends, my employer, and my colleagues think about things.

 

In America, a team of thought police got together and decided that if you say, do, act, move, write, blink, read, or ask questions in a certain way, that falls within their definition of offensive, then you will be directly or indirectly tarred and feathered by these police and their followers.

 

Today, US employers cannot ask a job candidate their gender, sexual preference, marital status, race, creed, or religion. Does that stop them from using what some might think to be unfair hiring practices anyway? Of course not. Attempting to control peoples thoughts has never worked, because people feel and think what they want to think. If they don't like mixed race marriages, they've learned to not speak about it on the job, so most have learned to be careful as to who they talk to about it.

 

I cannot give you scientific poll numbers, but I can cite to you my personal experience. Let's just say that I've seen an exponentially higher number of people in the US who are overtly unaccepting of mixed race marriages than I ever have in China.

 

Are there stares? Sure, of course. Everyone knows Chinese people stare at foreigners. However, I don't now, nor did I ever take the time to find out just why. I just make sure I carry my black sharpie with me and a few 8x10 glossy photos to hand out.

Edited June 20, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[carl.hops]

I don't think anyone is denying racism is in both country's, its everywhere. Its simply more blunt and open in China, and when your used to it being hidden from you it makes it harder to deal with now that its right in front of your face. So far I've spent much of my time wondering about what the person staring is thinking, lately, I've stopped caring and started smiling to any passerby who gives so much as a curious look or disgruntled face. Its the best way to handle it, not much else you can do other than move.

[Sebastian]

Carl - I've not stepped in to your topic yet - I wanted to read the 'rest of the replies' first, as I thought many someone else's would have the same aspect as me.

 

But..

 

I see, it didn't happen. No one else is mentioning 'whats to follow'..

 

So - I'll offer you some reverse stuff...

 

You know (I KNOW YOU KNOW) that - after about 3 weeks in China - you start to notice physiological differences...

 

Face Structure, Nose Shape/Size, height...

 

Limb structure - ratio of arm length to torso , torso length, leg length.. degree of eye slant..

 

Then.. finally - you realize -

 

EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT...

 

Big Deal - all wear label of 'Chinese' - but - physical appearance MOSTLY can divert back to location and province. I was totally shocked when I 'passed the wall' of physical appearance, that first time - ...

 

As Finally...

 

I could figure out the VAST differences in location, based on physiological attributes....

 

Ya, I know - migrant workers are everywhere - but - have you really noticed them? They're NOT, repeat, __NOT__ from 'that town'...

 

and if you pay attention...

 

You'll find some new friends, always eager to talk about 'home', as home is really NOT in 'this town' (wherever you may be, today)...

 

I swear, when it hit me, was total ephiphany... Then all of the map for the provinces 'locked into my brain', then I started noticing major regional differences in speech.

 

But I digress, a bit...

 

Your encounter with what I THINK is a migrant worker, is really, a cool thing... WITH the sunglasses, you passed as a local. Mondo Cool, IMO.

 

I think you are past the 'physiological differences' for 'where you live' - you've noticed them already, you have a good understanding of 'where' them folk are 'from', yes?

[carl.hops]

Yes definitely, I've been past that for most of my life actually (the physical features thing) I grew up in an area with a lot of Asians so other than being a Minority it wasn't much of a shock to notice people looked different. My best friend back home is Cambodian and his family is like my own, but I understand what your saying about people from different regions. You can easily tell who is from Tianjin and who is not, Tianjin had far too many Migrant workers come in far too quickly compared to places like Beijing (or that's what I'm told). It seems to be true.

[GZBILL]

I have opened many accounts here in Usa from wireless card to electric always ask for security deposit, up to $400.

 

However most I decline as I now just open Accounts with Hua Rin (chinese in USA) no deposit required and service better and mostly half the price for monthly bill.

 

This reinforcess GZbill that institutional racism exists and I add in both countries.

 

Because you have poor credit??

 

As long as your credit report is clean, you generally have no problems getting cellular service, electricity or home phone service without a deposit.

 

In any event, if everyone pays a deposit, it's not racism. If they only make Chinese people pay a deposit even though they have good credit, but don't make, for example, Caucasians with good credit pay, that is racism. Highly unlikely they'd do that in the USA while in China it is the norm.

 

Look also at employment ads. In China it is very common for ads to specify sex and age of those they will consider for a position. Show me where you have seen that in the US.