Interesting situation, need help

[Shanghai John]

Hello all,

 

I've been lurking here on and off for a few months but just returned from my first visit to China to meet my girl. We really hit it off and I am hoping to go back this summer. We are both overanxious and it's going to seem like a long time! (I've only been back in the US for 2 weeks).

 

Anyway, this is all still hypothetical but I could see myself proposing to her this summer. That would mean the whole K-1 process, etc, or getting married in China and doing K-3. Right.

 

Straightforward to this point, yes? Well the anomaly is that my girl was previously engaged to a US citizen (not me) and was denied for her K-1 early last year. The result was that he broke things off with her, and that was that.

 

EDIT: the visa application was denied due to "lack of evidence of a bona fide relationship" I think it was a white slip, I'm not totally certain as we've only discussed this a little.

 

I'm just wondering how the fact that she was denied once, and what's more, to someone besides myself -- will impact the interview and screening process.

 

I'm 100% certain that she is genuine in her feelings towards me, she just had the (mis!)fortune of getting serious with two Americans.

 

Thanks!

Edited April 11, 2009 by Shanghai John (see edit history)

[chilton747]

In my opinion, you will need to address the previous denial when you petition for her. Therefore, you really need to dig deep and find out to the best of your ability the reason for the previous denial. Perhaps it would be unwise to be in a hurry with a petition at this point.

 

Good Luck!!

[Randy W]

If they suspected that she was a scam artist, having a new petitioner may not help things.

 

You definitely need to look into this.

[chilton747]

If they suspected that she was a scam artist, having a new petitioner may not help things.

 

You definitely need to look into this.

 

Also I want to add the suggestion to perhaps hire an attorney that specializes in previous denials in GZ. Her denial is either on the way or at the USCIS at this time. The petition at this stage needs to be dealt with in some way.

[Shanghai John]

Yes, I guess I'll need to hire a lawyer in any event, given the added complexity of this. I'm just wondering how big of a hurdle that's going to be. Seems like something that could go either way.

 

Her job was a position that put her in touch with a lot of Americans, so that's how guy#1 met her. About 8 months later, I met her from a dating site. She speaks near-perfect English and is really charismatic, so it's not hard to imagine two guys falling for her. I just wonder if a VO would be able to realize these things or just frame it as "oh she got denied once and now she's back with a second guy, must be trouble!"

[chilton747]

Yes, I guess I'll need to hire a lawyer in any event, given the added complexity of this. I'm just wondering how big of a hurdle that's going to be. Seems like something that could go either way.

 

Her job was a position that put her in touch with a lot of Americans, so that's how guy#1 met her. About 8 months later, I met her from a dating site. She speaks near-perfect English and is really charismatic, so it's not hard to imagine two guys falling for her. I just wonder if a VO would be able to realize these things or just frame it as "oh she got denied once and now she's back with a second guy, must be trouble!"

 

 

IMO, you can never think of what a VO might think. They are very unpredictable. The best thing you can possibly do is prepare your case to the best of your ability, hire a lawyer to help you sort out the complexities of her previous case, and get to know you gal better.

And yes you are correct..........it could go either way.

[Sebastian]

You might want to ask her to scan in the white slip and email it to you as a graphic file. Then let us know what it says...

[LeeFisher3]

Attempting to provide evidence that her previous non-bona fide relationship was an incorrect finding can only hurt your case because you want to prove YOU have a bona fide relationship, not the previous petitioner.

 

The actions of her previous petitioner by not following through validate the finding by GUZ in her previous case, or at least in the mind of GUZ they do, otherwise he would have fought through the process and continued.

 

The direction I would suggest is to include evidence with your I-129F or I-130 that addresses her situation and that you are fully aware of this situation.

 

This would include a notarized statement from her as to her relationship with the previous petitioner and how he abandoned her after receiving resistance from GUZ to issue a visa. Use this as a way to somehow thank GUZ, without thanking them, for helping her to see that the previous petitioner was not true in his intentions and after a reasonable period of time she began to seek a TRUE relationship with another man. She will want to present a contrasting difference between the previous relationship and her true relationship with you and why she knows this to be the real thing.

 

You on the other hand must present this evidence in a good light, showing she made this previous relationship known to you in the proper time and a full up to date evolution of your relationship. This is how you introduce her notarized statement.

 

The evidence requirement for the USCIS is minimal in most cases to get an approval, but you are wanting to provide as much as possible to the USCIS to address this issue than the ordinary petitioner. You're evidence requirements will be much more than most in proving your relationship due to the previous case. The quantity of evidence is less important than the quality. You need to knock it out of the park on your first at bat.

 

The idea is to remove the previous petition from the picture by having the USCIS approve it with full knowledge of it's existence and by doing this making it extremely difficult for GUZ to use it against you.

 

There is no magic bullet to remove the previous denial from her record, but you can minimize it and make it difficult for GUZ to bring it up.

 

I would be so bold as to use the A# previously assigned and a copy of the white slip with your evidence. The A# should be on her previous paperwork, hopefully she has not discarded it. Some will argue that you don't want to do this, but the previous denial links her to it so don't try to hide this from the USCIS, you want to make a bold statement that you have absolutely nothing to hide.

 

Knowing that the bar will be set higher for you you need to begin preparing your evidence for the interview now. Things like multiple trips to see her, lots of pictures with the two of you with family and friends doing the normal things couples do, phone records, letters (real mailed ones), emails, a log of emails (how many each month or week) and anything else you can think of as providing for a real relationship are what you want to have for the interview. Maintain a journal of your relationship and start working on a letter showing the evolution of your relationship, both of you need to do this.

 

Start keeping it now and organize well for the interview.

 

Also, take a look in your background for anything that could be considered a red flag and address it with the initial petition as well.

 

More is better for the petition, but it needs to be well thought out, not just a hundred emails that require the person reviewing the case to see how you love each other.

 

Most attorneys will have no experience in this type of situation, PM me or Chilton747 for contact info for one who has experience with difficult cases.

[Shanghai John]

That's really awesome advice, thanks a lot Lee. You managed to capture my worries and a potential way to mitigate them all at the same time.

 

I totally agree with you about not wanting to invalidate her past relationship. From what I gather, the guy only visited her once, and filed for the visa after that trip -- perhaps not surprisingly, it got turned down.

[credzba]

That's really awesome advice, thanks a lot Lee. You managed to capture my worries and a potential way to mitigate them all at the same time.

 

I totally agree with you about not wanting to invalidate her past relationship. From what I gather, the guy only visited her once, and filed for the visa after that trip -- perhaps not surprisingly, it got turned down.

 

Consider marriage/I-130 instead of K1 ?

If you are serious about this woman, and she about you, why not marry?

Your visit through USCIS will probably be longer than normal anyway, might as well get a green card on entry. In fact, if they drag it out, you would get a 10 year green card on entry.

 

Marriage also helps with gathering relationship evidence.

 

As fiancees you can show pictures, and visits, and that is about all.

As a married couple you can buy property together, add her name to you insurance, make her the beneficiary of your life insurance.

 

There are MANY more things a married couple can do than an engaged couple.

 

I agree with all the things Lee said, you want the USCIS to approve your petition with full knowledge of this woman's previous issues. They absolutely will know anyway, it is just a matter of having this documented during the review in the USA instead of letting GUZ have a go with it.

 

You didn't mention what province she is from. There are some provinces that are "known" for their seeking Americans for women.

I have never thought of this before, but is there any reason that the Chinese partner has to stay living in their home province?

 

 

I wish you both a long and happy marriage.

[Shanghai John]

She's from Guangdong, west of Guangzhou.

[david_dawei]

I agree with alot that was already said. I would focus on figuring out how this relationship differs from her first one. I would try to st that apart at the very beginning so USCIS sees it (and approves what was submitted) and GUZ will hopefully not hold anything against you based on her previous filing.

 

I don't have such a good feeling about the scenario... but if not you, she'd maybe be trying to file with the next 'john'. I'd just ask you to step back and really see if this is the best for you.

 

Also, does she have children? her age? Difference to you?

 

One way to really show this relationship is different and serious is to marry, as was mentioned. You just need to be very thoughtful at every step. I'm just not sure that someone should put themselves through much concern when they could be other's which present no concerns.

[Dennis143]

Try to get the name and contact information of the prior petitioner and ask him what happened.

[IllinoisDave]

A lot of good advice so far. I'd just add to what others have said that you should put some time between her previous denial and your engagement or marriage. Assuming you can afford to, I'd make at least one more visit before getting engaged and filing K-1 or getting married and filing K-3. TIME is your best friend in these circumstances IMHO. More time spent together and communicating and more time put between her petitions. It won't get you together faster but it may ultimately be the difference whan a VO takes a look at your case down the road. Best of luck.

Edited April 12, 2009 by IllinoisDave (see edit history)

[warpedbored]

Proceed with caution. How well do you know this woman? The fact she had a previously denied petition while not a deal breaker is a red flag. The consulate will be dubious about it at best.