Daoism

[Guest Rob & Jin]

I like the purity and simplicity of Zen, just its a hard thing for the wondering western brain and spirit, maybe a conflict between between the complex pursuit of of a logical justification of materialism and spiritual calmness.

[david_dawei]

I didn't realize that putting the thread in the sub-forum required 'approving' each post.. so I moved it back out for now...

[david_dawei]

I like the purity and simplicity of Zen, just its a hard thing for the wondering western brain and spirit, maybe a conflict between between the complex pursuit of of a logical justification of materialism and spiritual calmness.

I think there is some truth to this... we have a harder time to settle our minds on 'nothing' for very long. Probably what I don't care for about Zen, and which the chinese didn't seem to embrace as a populous, is the meditation as a prescribed path. Early Zen didn't have the emphasis that the later periods and particularly Japan applied.

 

Whereas Zen was more about 'no-mind' (wu xin), dao was more about 'no-action' (wu wei). On some level the two meet and really complete each sides concept. Although alot is written about their differences, I still like the similarities of the two.

 

Zen benfits from the strong Buddhist metaphyics and thus could settle into a school of thought and go from there... but I think they left some it it behind as just unnecessary to deal with; No need to talk about reincarnation or non-existence of the soul, etc.

 

When Buddha was asked to explain the contradiction of these two concepts... he took a burning candle, lit a second candle, then blew out the first flame... and asked, "Is this the same flame?"

 

Dao benefits from a long history of naturalistic observation about nature and man's interaction with it; thus, this became the model to follow.

 

LaoZi said supreme goodness is not water, benefiting all life.

[chrisnhong]

I've been a practising Daoist for about 18 months. In some ways there is an overlap with other religions, promise of an afterlife, belief in God etc.

 

Where it differs? Mastering your own behavior comes first, faith comes later. In a lot of ways it's been copied into much of the stuff in the self help industry.

[david_dawei]

I've been a practising Daoist for about 18 months. In some ways there is an overlap with other religions, promise of an afterlife, belief in God etc.

 

Where it differs? Mastering your own behavior comes first, faith comes later. In a lot of ways it's been copied into much of the stuff in the self help industry.

This sounds like following the daoist religion (µÀ½Ì - Daojiao) more than daoist philosophy (µÀ¼Ò- Daojia) , only because the latter would not get into religious issues.

 

I know of a guy who following daoist religious medicine, which is really a meta-level above traditional chinese medicine.

 

----

 

So I'm curious what aspects you follow in terms of texts (do you read LaoZi or other daoist text), herbal medicine, ying/yang, meditation (or tai ji, gi gong), others?

 

I ask only because I rarely find someone who follows the taoist religious side and curious what you focus on... or maybe you have a book you recommend that describes it...

[chrisnhong]

Unfortunately, much of the texts is in extended pamplet form. And the translations from chinese are often pretty rough. There is some ritual connected to the religious side, rather like the various churches. But the focus is definitely more on the philosophical side.

[david_dawei]

When you said overlap to religions.. which of the western or eastern ones?

 

How about the application of yin and yang foods? (or the focus is really mostly behavioral/belief and not as much on health).

[Guest Rob & Jin]

I like the purity and simplicity of Zen, just its a hard thing for the wondering western brain and spirit, maybe a conflict between between the complex pursuit of of a logical justification of materialism and spiritual calmness.

I think there is some truth to this... we have a harder time to settle our minds on 'nothing' for very long. Probably what I don't care for about Zen, and which the chinese didn't seem to embrace as a populous, is the meditation as a prescribed path. Early Zen didn't have the emphasis that the later periods and particularly Japan applied.

 

Whereas Zen was more about 'no-mind' (wu xin), dao was more about 'no-action' (wu wei). On some level the two meet and really complete each sides concept. Although alot is written about their differences, I still like the similarities of the two.

 

Zen benfits from the strong Buddhist and thus could settle into a school of thought and go from there... but I think they left some it it behind as just unnecessary to deal with; No need to talk about reincarnation or non-existence of the soul, etc.

 

When Buddha was asked to explain the contradiction of these two concepts... he took a burning candle, lit a second candle, then blew out the first flame... and asked, "Is this the same flame?"

 

Dao benefits from a long history of naturalistic observation about nature and man's interaction with it; thus, this became the model to follow.

 

LaoZi said supreme goodness is not water, benefiting all life.

 

Thers is no "metaphyics" in zen and zen roots lie in shinto as well , " no mind" is not seperate to "no action" but when action is required its swift. Although similiar in their use of meditation, Zen seems more pure in its relation and acceptance of nature, without trying to bend it.

[david_dawei]

Thers is no "metaphyics" in zen and zen roots lie in shinto as well , " no mind" is not seperate to "no action" but when action is required its swift. Although similiar in their use of meditation, Zen seems more pure in its relation and acceptance of nature, without trying to bend it.

I don't think I can agree with this...

 

Zen's teaching on:

- the unity of all things (being and nonbeing as one)

- the unconscious conscious

- Mind is being

- eternal now; NOWness; ISness

- no-mind; no-ego; no-self

 

is just some examples... but buddhism metaphysics are much fuller than zen buddhism, I would agree.

 

Shinto is indigenous to Japan; Zen was imported to Japan from China, where it originated...

 

Once Zen washed ashore of Japan, I don't doubt it's mixing with Shinto... but now we're talking Japanese Zen; I usually refer to Zen in it's more original start in China (which I should of clarified)... where upon it's entry it would eventually get mixed with aspects of the native thoughts on daoism... Although some argue that some form of dao went to India and came back as Zen.

[Guest Rob & Jin]

I have to agree, I look of Zen as Japanese, Buhddist as from India and Dao from China, they are mixed, guess thats a result of 20 + years doing yoga and kendo (bushido)

[Dennis143]

I follow DOHist Homer philosophy.

[david_dawei]

I have to agree, I look of Zen as Japanese, Buhddist as from India and Dao from China, they are mixed, guess thats a result of 20 + years doing yoga and kendo (bushido)

and if we want to add more, we can say, Chinese Zen and Zen Buddhism... it's a winding history and to say Zen is not very pointed sometimes.. so my bad.

 

The only Japanese Zen master I read is Dogen, found of the Soto Zen School... here's a writeup on:

The Metaphysics of Dogen

[chrisnhong]

The overlap with western religion and Tao is interesting. Tao actually regards Jesus, Mohammed as "sages" along with LaoTse, Confucius and some others. If you look closely, many of the requirements of good character and behavior are similar.

 

Tao directs that it's followers should be vegetarian (not vegan, so eggs, milk products etc are allowed). I'm not there yet, but I've cut my meat consumption down to under 500 grams per week.

[Don]

I have to agree, I look of Zen as Japanese, Buhddist as from India and Dao from China, they are mixed, guess thats a result of 20 + years doing yoga and kendo (bushido)

and if we want to add more, we can say, Chinese Zen and Zen Buddhism... it's a winding history and to say Zen is not very pointed sometimes.. so my bad.

 

The only Japanese Zen master I read is Dogen, found of the Soto Zen School... here's a writeup on:

The Metaphysics of Dogen

 

 

 

Shinto rules everyday life, but buddism is the high minded thought (maybe educated life) and to prepare for death. I have not seen a big mixing of the thoughts.

 

I hung out in the temples a lot in Japan and saw the monks and even meet a few of the high monks in the Tokyo area (just for blessing and to hear the chants). Been to Niko to meet Nantai-san (spelling), mountain god from Shinto. It was great to see all of this, but still do not really know or understand more! Plus, i have done the practice in Zen a few times, but again not as a real practice just to see what it is. I am too much of a generalist and never really focused on one area.

[david_dawei]

The overlap with western religion and Tao is interesting. Tao actually regards Jesus, Mohammed as "sages" along with LaoTse, Confucius and some others. If you look closely, many of the requirements of good character and behavior are similar.

 

Tao directs that it's followers should be vegetarian (not vegan, so eggs, milk products etc are allowed). I'm not there yet, but I've cut my meat consumption down to under 500 grams per week.

interesting... thanks for sharing what your doing.

 

and I think that the vegetarian diet is more a sect decision... since there is alot in Taoist medicine (of yin and yang) where meats and animal organs are ok to treat certain issues.