Make an appeal or start over?

[warpedbored]

It is in your best interests to keep the file in GZ. Even if you start over by marrying it will still be in your file and just as likely to be denied the second time around. As others have said, fighting a denial stateside can take years. I would get an attorney in GZ that knows the inner workings of the consulate. They can find out more than you can about why your case was denied.

[dnoblett]

This one has been written about, sounds much like this scenario:

 

Lawyers ¨C Be Careful Here!

 

Now in many cases where a K-1 has been delayed, refused or denied at a US Consulate, lawyers have advised clients to simply get married and file and I-130. That is not good advice, unless the attorney also advises the petitioner to pay close attention to the K-1 that has been sent back to the Service Center from the consulate.

 

If a Service Center begins a revocation proceeding for that K-1 petition, a petitioner¡¯s failure to respond will mean that DHS will revoke the approval of the petition. When that happens, the 212(a)(6)(c )(i) that is pending in our beneficiary file, will become hard finding of Misrepresentation, under 9 FAM 40.63 N10.1 (above).

 

A Rude Surprise at the Second Consular Interview

 

Our love birds have followed their lawyer¡¯s advice and forgotten about the K-1 petition. A NOID (Notice of Intent to Deny) letter comes in the mail and petitioner calls his lawyer. The lawyer says,

 

¡°Don¡¯t worry about it. She¡¯s your wife now. The K-1 petition is irrelevant.¡±

 

The lovebirds have taken the plunge and married. The petitioner has made another costly visit to the foreign country; bought another round trip airplane ticket, and maybe he has even sprung for a costly wedding ceremony.

 

An I-130 Petition for his new bride has been filed. And it is approved by the DHS Service Center. What will happen when his new wife appears at the US Consulate for her next interview?

 

Because the petitioner did not respond to the K-1 revocation notice, the beneficiary has a 212(a)(6)(c )(i) finding on her record. Even if the petition for her is approved, she is permanently barred from entering the US, unless she can obtain a waiver to that ground of inadmissibility.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

[chilton747]

This one has been written about, sounds much like this scenario:

 

Lawyers ¨C Be Careful Here!

 

Now in many cases where a K-1 has been delayed, refused or denied at a US Consulate, lawyers have advised clients to simply get married and file and I-130. That is not good advice, unless the attorney also advises the petitioner to pay close attention to the K-1 that has been sent back to the Service Center from the consulate.

 

If a Service Center begins a revocation proceeding for that K-1 petition, a petitioner¡¯s failure to respond will mean that DHS will revoke the approval of the petition. When that happens, the 212(a)(6)(c )(i) that is pending in our beneficiary file, will become hard finding of Misrepresentation, under 9 FAM 40.63 N10.1 (above).

 

A Rude Surprise at the Second Consular Interview

 

Our love birds have followed their lawyer¡¯s advice and forgotten about the K-1 petition. A NOID (Notice of Intent to Deny) letter comes in the mail and petitioner calls his lawyer. The lawyer says,

 

¡°Don¡¯t worry about it. She¡¯s your wife now. The K-1 petition is irrelevant.¡±

 

The lovebirds have taken the plunge and married. The petitioner has made another costly visit to the foreign country; bought another round trip airplane ticket, and maybe he has even sprung for a costly wedding ceremony.

 

An I-130 Petition for his new bride has been filed. And it is approved by the DHS Service Center. What will happen when his new wife appears at the US Consulate for her next interview?

 

Because the petitioner did not respond to the K-1 revocation notice, the beneficiary has a 212(a)(6)(c )(i) finding on her record. Even if the petition for her is approved, she is permanently barred from entering the US, unless she can obtain a waiver to that ground of inadmissibility.

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

 

Lesson learned here is to respond to all notices. A variance here is that some of us do not get notices. There are several ways to get around this. Having a true bonafide relationship is your greatest ammo in this war of truth. The rest is playing the game that GZ puts forth. I suggest getting the advice from a competent attorney without delay. The sooner you do then the more options you might have.

[larsenea]

Considerng the time that has already past, in theory our case should already have left Guangzhou. All attempts to verify where it is get the same answer "it will take several months..."

 

We talked with several Lawyer firms while I was there. We also got bad advice from the consultants down stairs. I can only guess how much damage we did not knowing what to do. Being scared and confused makes for bad decision making.

 

Because they are trying to revoke our petition I am assuming we are being accused of fraud. At this point we can only guess why. They asked for more tax info from me and I supplied it. My income is fine(not great). I own my house(no mortgage). the only thing left to consider is our history together. It was an unexpected and brief meeting but, I did not need more to know I wanted to pursue a relationship.

 

Unfortunately a lawyer is not an option. we tried that on the first interview denial and found it far from our budget (especially after a trip to guangzhou then to Shenyang then to Guangzhou, shenyang and back to US) Broke the bank on this visit. Money well spent though, I needed to spend some time with her and her family again.

[warpedbored]

I know lawyers can be expensive but.... This is the most important person in your life. You can't put a price on that. When my wife got a blue slip money considerations went out the window. I pulled out the plastic and was on a plane to China as fast as I could get there. I wold advise pulling out all the stops and doing what ever you have to to overcome this, money be damned.

Considerng the time that has already past, in theory our case should already have left Guangzhou. All attempts to verify where it is get the same answer "it will take several months..."

 

We talked with several Lawyer firms while I was there. We also got bad advice from the consultants down stairs. I can only guess how much damage we did not knowing what to do. Being scared and confused makes for bad decision making.

 

Because they are trying to revoke our petition I am assuming we are being accused of fraud. At this point we can only guess why. They asked for more tax info from me and I supplied it. My income is fine(not great). I own my house(no mortgage). the only thing left to consider is our history together. It was an unexpected and brief meeting but, I did not need more to know I wanted to pursue a relationship.

 

Unfortunately a lawyer is not an option. we tried that on the first interview denial and found it far from our budget (especially after a trip to guangzhou then to Shenyang then to Guangzhou, shenyang and back to US) Broke the bank on this visit. Money well spent though, I needed to spend some time with her and her family again.

[chilton747]

When our case was denied I attended ACH shortly afterward and was never given an answer to why we were denied. Furthermore, the CO that I spoke to at ACH suggested that we get married and apply the CR1/K-3 route. It may give us a better chance.

 

Well.. Fast forward 7 months and our K-3 was just recently approved by USCIS. So it all depends on you, wait or just start over.

Wishing you good luck Derek

[larsenea]

We looked at everyones advice and decided to just wait for the USCIS reply for the moment. I will not have the money for another trip to China for several months anyway.

 

So for now its 2 months and counting...

 

I hope everyone has a happier Newyear ...especialy those of us starting it looking at the unknown.

 

Larry & Guijuan B)

[chilton747]

We looked at everyones advice and decided to just wait for the USCIS reply for the moment. I will not have the money for another trip to China for several months anyway.

 

So for now its 2 months and counting...

 

I hope everyone has a happier Newyear ...especialy those of us starting it looking at the unknown.

 

Larry & Guijuan B)

 

Good luck Larry and I wish you much patience.

[david_dawei]

I thought you only get into the appeal process once USCIS agrees with the consulate findings to revocate the petition; and there are good reasons that USCIS does not like to get caught up in a legal battle over these issues. So, from my limited view of this stage, I don't think too many are upheld but are rather sent back to the consulate. One guy here had his case go back to USCIS who allowed the petition to expire.. which is an easy out for them since they make no decision that way.

 

If you start over, the same issue could very well be still present in their minds... so you have to do some soul searching to see if you can figure it out and try to deal with it in the next submission (should it come to that).

[larsenea]

For those leeping count...response to email arrived today...once again a non-answer. "it will take several months...

 

I noticed the uscis website has a backlog list page. it says all k1 appeals are curent. Does anyone know if GUZ has such a page? I could not find one.

 

Any one here who is still waiting for a denial to arrive at USCIS? and how long you have waited?

 

Larry

[LeeFisher3]

For those leeping count...response to email arrived today...once again a non-answer. "it will take several months...

 

I noticed the uscis website has a backlog list page. it says all k1 appeals are curent. Does anyone know if GUZ has such a page? I could not find one.

 

Any one here who is still waiting for a denial to arrive at USCIS? and how long you have waited?

 

Larry

It would be nice if GZ was forthcoming in how long it took for a case to be returned to the US.

 

I have heard of cases being returned within 3-6 months, but then I know a few that have been over a year with little information. The official policy is for the case to be returned to the US within week or two, but GZ is apparently above all that being busy and all.

 

A while back I recall someone contacting DOS Consular affairs asking for intervention with their case and due to the circumstances was successful in moving things along based on a hardship issue.

 

I wonder if the same track might be followed based on the delay and the DOS's inability to inform you as to the location of the case. There is a reasonable time for the consulate to document and return the case to the US. There was a memo sent to all consulates in July 2001 SUBJECT: GUIDANCE ON PETITION REVOCATIONS that would be a basis for your request for assistance from DOS.

 

You would be asking them to provide you with the opportunity to address the issues raised by the post but it appears the consulate in GZ had either decided to "sit on the case" or "Deep Six" your case preventing you from addressing the issues or questions raised by the VO.

 

Quoting the following section of the memo and asking if the post in question has decided to sit on the case or deep six the case might be appropriate.

 

9. Once post has decided that a case warrants return to USCIS, the memo requesting revocation should be prepared expeditiously and the case returned as quickly as possible. Keeping a case for a lengthy period because officers do not have time to prepare the revocation memo is not fair to the applicant or petitioner, only invites more work in the long run in the form of congressional inquiries and calls about the case, and can even lead to litigation. It places an unfair burden on the petitioner and beneficiary, who in many cases would choose to contest the revocation but cannot do so until USCIS has received the file and sent a notice of intent to revoke to the petitioner. As a rule of thumb, posts should not allow petitions earmarked for return to USCIS to languish more than a week or two. Our e-mail poll revealed that by-and-large posts are aware of this need for quick processing and are preparing revocation memos with dispatch.

 

I would suggest taking this memo and hitting up your congressman's office and following through with letters to the DOS starting with:

• President
  
• Congressman
  
• Senator
  
• Secretary Condoleezza Rice
  
• Patrick F. Kennedy, Under Secretary for Management
  
• Maura Harty, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Consular Affairs
  

Be sure to include a long cc list so that they know you are appealing to your Government and a large number of people know about this.

The last one on the list has been known to help, but you need to get through first, as I recall one of Maura Harty's assistants took interest in the case and moved it up the food chain.

 

You want your letters to be kind and a plea for assistance in dealing with an injustice. Don't rant. But do ask why the DOS, mainly GZ is not processing your case so that you can follow the process as they felt there were issues. Obviously they have processed thousands of visa cases since issuing the NOID, but they apparently are not concerned about completing their work on your case and this seems to be a great injustice as all you are asking is that they do their job, which is not an unreasonable request. It is even possible the original visa officer who issued the 221(g) is no longer at that post to complete the paperwork for the case to be returned.

 

Ask for a response within 30 days and follow up the letters with phone calls to the DOS. Directories for the departments listed above can be found at About State Department

 

Above all, keep your cool and make friends with everyone you speak with. If you get angry or loose it on the phone it will hurt your chances of getting anything out of these people. You are looking for the one kind hearted person who will champion your case and get a higher official to call GZ on the carpet for an explanation and immediate action.

 

It will not be easy and will take a bit of time, but you know how that goes. Be patient and work the system.

[MikeandRong]

In addition to Lee's list of people, you should also send to Michael B. Mukasey US Attorny General. He alone has the power to overturn any decision on a petition and the Consulate/VO has no say after he does (goes both ways, approved or denied).

 

Will he, who knows, most likely doubtful, but it is worth a shot.

[tsap seui]

Great info, Lee and Mike. For anyone wanting to take this route you guys have surely given some great road maps. My ol' floopy Aussie hat is off to you both for your good deed. With a smile on my face, and no malice whatsoever intended I ask one question. How many years do you anticipate a course like that would take?

 

Larry, I hope the best for you and your lady in this situation. I've been 7 months in the black hole of an administrative processing blue slip and who knows, after all that time it could wind up like yours just as easily as it could wind up with a visa awarded.

 

I feel your pain, Larry. If my fiancee wasn't so gung ho to live out her "American dream" I would have stopped wasting my time thinkin' about GUZ and the DOS 2 or 3 months ago. I continue to be very polite and subservient in my e-mails to GUZ and phone calls to the DOS, but I'm lying through my teeth and only doing this out of my extreme love for my fiance, as my American dream "got sick" back in 1970-1971 and "passed away" a few months ago.

 

tsap seui

[LeeFisher3]

Great info, Lee and Mike. For anyone wanting to take this route you guys have surely given some great road maps. My ol' floopy Aussie hat is off to you both for your good deed. With a smile on my face, and no malice whatsoever intended I ask one question. How many years do you anticipate a course like that would take?

 

Larry, I hope the best for you and your lady in this situation. I've been 7 months in the black hole of an administrative processing blue slip and who knows, after all that time it could wind up like yours just as easily as it could wind up with a visa awarded.

 

I feel your pain, Larry. If my fiancee wasn't so gung ho to live out her "American dream" I would have stopped wasting my time thinkin' about GUZ and the DOS 2 or 3 months ago. I continue to be very polite and subservient in my e-mails to GUZ and phone calls to the DOS, but I'm lying through my teeth and only doing this out of my extreme love for my fiance, as my American dream "got sick" back in 1970-1971 and "passed away" a few months ago.

 

tsap seui

How long? I don't know.

 

I know that the member I referenced went full guns at DOS and found a sympathetic ear. From that point things moved quickly, but this was a hardship case asking for special dispensation and not a demand that GZ do it's job.

 

With this being an election year the possiblities are endless. While the hope is to find someone who will see the injustice that GZ is causing and have the power to do something about because it is an injustice, it could easily be that someone wants to make political hay and accomplishes the same thing for their own personal or party gain. It doesn't really matter how the NOID gets freed up, just so long as it does.

 

And if no one is interested and blows him off there is always the media approach to embarass the DOS and Federal Government which might just work as well, but that's futher down the road and requires you to touch all the bases first which takes time.

 

It's not so much fighting the system as it is taking their own massive amount of information and using it for your advantage. It's a matter of discovering how to use the system to fight itself.

 

I wish there was something available to help those in Administrative hold or futher processing as well, who knows enough digging around and there might be some stick to be able to wedge a visa out of GZ.

[larsenea]

Thanks guys, your info has given me some new avenues to explore I had not thought of. I was planning on asking my congressman to be a little more agressive this time and require real answers. I was also interested in finding more ears to pull. I did leave a message at the DOS website but, have yet to hear back. I also was not sure how soon to start my request but, I am starting to think after four months I am not being unreasonable.

 

Larry