Returning From China

[SirLancelot]

Just a few comments on dual citizenships.

 

The US doesn't really recognize dual nationalities from countries who also do not recognize dual nationalities, so really the US does not recognize dual nationalities of Chinese citizens as China doesn't recognize dual nationalities of its citizen. One is either a Chinese national or one is a national of another country. One can't be both in the eyes of the Chinese.

 

Also, as a general rule, dual nationalities are reserved for children of minor age. Almost every country which allows for some kind of dual nationalities require that when the child grows up to choose one or the other country as it's sole citizenship. I think the max age is usually 27 or 28. After the age limit, you can't be a dual national anymore.

 

I don't know of any country which allows a new adult immigrant to that country to apply for citizenship and then also retain citizenship of his or her previous country. One always renounces citizenship of one's previous country when being recognized as the new country's citizen. The only exception are minors as minors generally do not have a choice in becoming a citizen of the new country. So minors are allowed to be dual citizens until they reach a certain age when they can decide. Then they are given a certain amount of time until they have to choose to either become one or the other national.

 

This is a general rule and I'm sure there might be some exceptions for certain countries, but it does hold up for most countries.

[NY-Viking]

Not exactly, but it is true that many countries (the US not included) do require you to denounce your previous citizenship if you immigrate and become citizens of them. It seems to me that even if China does not recognize dual citizenship, the US at least implicitly recognizes it with Chinese immigrants, as stated in the State Department web pages I quoted above.

 

Here is what the State Department says about the subject generally:

 

Dual Nationality

 

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

 

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

 

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

 

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

 

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

 

from: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

 

So for the US, it seems to be about intent.

 

Just for fun, here's what Norway's Directorate of Immigration states:

Pursuant to Norwegian law a person cannot in principle be a national of two countries. A Norwegian national who has been granted citizenship in another country after he/she has applied for it, has given notification to be a citizen of another country or has explicitly agreed to be a national of another country automatically forfeits his/her Norwegian citizenship. This also applies in the case where a child becomes a citizen of another country as a result of the parents'/guardians' s application, notification or agreement. If you apply for Norwegian citizenship, you can be required to renounce your previous citizenship if you do not automatically forfeit it.

 

In certain cases, however, the law permits an applicant to be a citizen of more than one country. This applies in the following cases, among others:

*If you are born with dual nationality because you have Norwegian and foreign citizenship through your parents (for example a Norwegian mother and a foreign father)

*If you are born to Norwegian parents in a country that applies the territorial principle (anyone born in a country becomes a citizen of that country) In that case, you can have both Norwegian citizenship and citizenship of the country of your birth.

*If you have applied for Norwegian citizenship and it is not possible for you to renounce your original citizenship

*If a child born before 1 Septmeber 2006 becomes Norwegian by notification, see ...

from http://www.udi.no/templates/Tema.aspx?id=7397

Edited January 26, 2007 by NY-Viking (see edit history)

[toy_rn65]

Here is the senario before I ask the question:

 

A Chinese American want to go back to China for about a year. He still holds a Chinese passport on top of his new US passport. He uses his US passport to exit the US and after he landed in China, he stuffed his US passport in his pack before immigration and used his Chinese passport to enter. All is well and it's time for him to come back to the US after a 11 months stay in his hometown. Now he's got a problem. When he exit China, which passport should he use? He won't have a US visa in his Chinese passport to show Chinese IO and if he use his US passport, there will be no Chinses visa and no prove as to how he enter China.

 

Does that mean he is stuck in China?

[NY-Viking]

Here is the senario before I ask the question:

 

A Chinese American want to go back to China for about a year. He still holds a Chinese passport on top of his new US passport. He uses his US passport to exit the US and after he landed in China, he stuffed his US passport in his pack before immigration and used his Chinese passport to enter. All is well and it's time for him to come back to the US after a 11 months stay in his hometown. Now he's got a problem. When he exit China, which passport should he use? He won't have a US visa in his Chinese passport to show Chinese IO and if he use his US passport, there will be no Chinses visa and no prove as to how he enter China.

 

Does that mean he is stuck in China?

 

This is the dilemma I discussed above. The way I know people have gotten around this is to leave China on their Chinese passport to Hong Kong, or alternatively to some country that it's easy for PRC citizens to get a visa to (like Thailand), and then continue on to the US.

 

I know a few of years ago I heard a rumor that China was considering allowing "Returnees" into China without a visa (that is, it was considering allowing Chinese that had obtained citizenship in the US or Europe back into China without getting a China visa ... don't know if they meant for them to enter on their foreign of Chinese passport). The idea was to stop the brain drain that was happening as educated Chinese left the country.

 

However, that was a conversation I had at least 4-5 years ago with a headhunter in Shanghai at some AmCham event, and I haven't heard anything more about it since ... either officially from Chinese government announcements or otherwise. So, right now the individual would be stuck in China and need to obtain a visa to exit as far as I know.

[shanghaigale]

I don't believe he would be allowed to exit the USA on th US passport without a chinese visa in his passport. I know everytime I went to China the airline would always check my passport for a valid visa otherwise they wouldn't issue the boarding pass. Several times I had to show them where it was at because I had so many past entries in the passport. I think where he would end up in trouble would be when he showed his US passport to exit, they would see that he had overstayed his visa which would most probably be a short term visa. Also it wouldn't even show an entry for when he entered china in the first place, this would also be a problem.

Gale

 

Here is the senario before I ask the question:

 

A Chinese American want to go back to China for about a year. He still holds a Chinese passport on top of his new US passport. He uses his US passport to exit the US and after he landed in China, he stuffed his US passport in his pack before immigration and used his Chinese passport to enter. All is well and it's time for him to come back to the US after a 11 months stay in his hometown. Now he's got a problem. When he exit China, which passport should he use? He won't have a US visa in his Chinese passport to show Chinese IO and if he use his US passport, there will be no Chinses visa and no prove as to how he enter China.

 

Does that mean he is stuck in China?

[toy_rn65]

I don't believe he would be allowed to exit the USA on th US passport without a chinese visa in his passport. I know everytime I went to China the airline would always check my passport for a valid visa otherwise they wouldn't issue the boarding pass. Several times I had to show them where it was at because I had so many past entries in the passport. I think where he would end up in trouble would be when he showed his US passport to exit, they would see that he had overstayed his visa which would most probably be a short term visa. Also it wouldn't even show an entry for when he entered china in the first place, this would also be a problem.

Gale

 

Here is the senario before I ask the question:

 

A Chinese American want to go back to China for about a year. He still holds a Chinese passport on top of his new US passport. He uses his US passport to exit the US and after he landed in China, he stuffed his US passport in his pack before immigration and used his Chinese passport to enter. All is well and it's time for him to come back to the US after a 11 months stay in his hometown. Now he's got a problem. When he exit China, which passport should he use? He won't have a US visa in his Chinese passport to show Chinese IO and if he use his US passport, there will be no Chinses visa and no prove as to how he enter China.

 

Does that mean he is stuck in China?

 

 

I see what your saying. In another word, there is no way exiting the US to China using a US passport without a Chinese visa unless he uses his Chinese passport but in it would indicate he over stayed since his last US entry. Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me that there is no way to exit the US without using a US passport?

[PapaBear]

I see what your saying. In another word, there is no way exiting the US to China using a US passport without a Chinese visa unless he uses his Chinese passport but in it would indicate he over stayed since his last US entry. Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me that there is no way to exit the US without using a US passport?

 

Practically and Theoretically....no. With the current terrorist threat and security being focused on identifing aliens plotting to enter a country fraudulently, I wouldn't want to be the one trying to circumvent the governments passport security system.

 

PapaBear

[NY-Viking]

Before reading my responses to the following, please note that I recommend travelling only on your US passport once you obtain one. This means getting PRC visas and following their restrictions during trips to China.

 

I see what your saying. In another word, there is no way exiting the US to China using a US passport without a Chinese visa unless he uses his Chinese passport but in it would indicate he over stayed since his last US entry. Correct me if I am wrong, it seems to me that there is no way to exit the US without using a US passport?

 

See the section I quoted from the US State Dept's website above. The US requires US passport holders (i.e., citizens) to enter and exit the US on their US passports, even if they claim dual nationality and have another passport. So, yes, you need to exit on your US passport if you have one.

 

I don't believe he would be allowed to exit the USA on th US passport without a chinese visa in his passport. I know everytime I went to China the airline would always check my passport for a valid visa otherwise they wouldn't issue the boarding pass. Several times I had to show them where it was at because I had so many past entries in the passport. ...

 

Yeah, I think all of us that have frequented China before have encountered that problem and had to show the airline check-in agent where the valid visa was. A couple of times they just laughed and handed me back my passport and asked me to find it because there were too many visas to look through; other times they tried to tell me I didn't have a valid visa before I found it for them.

 

However, the airline only looks for a visa if the country you are travelling to requires one. So, if you are going directly to China, then they'll look. On the other hand if you go to Hong Kong first, you don't need a visa, so they won't give you a problem.

 

Additionally, I'm not sure what the rules are. I think the airline won't give you a boarding pass because they don't want to be held responsible if you are denied entry on arrival in the foreign country. In other words, they don't want to have to put you right back on a plane (that might be booked solid), and they don't want you suing them when you get back to America for not telling you that you needed a visa.

 

But if you made a big stink about it at the airport and said you'd get on the plane and be responsible for not having a visa and not hold them responsible, I'm not sure what they'd do. Even though US airlines collect the I-94 stubs for foreigners that are exiting, the airlines aren't the "visa police". They're private companies providing passage. Chances are they would let you on the plane. I think I remember having to explain to them once that my wife (then girlfriend) didn't need a Chinese visa because she was a Chinese citizen. And as you stated in your post, you have to show them sometimes that you have a valid visa. Seems to follow that you could argue with them that you are entitled to travel to a certain country without having the visa. But this is all conjecture.

 

Of course, one alternative is that you could always obtain a China visa and show it to the airline, but then not use it when you get to China and enter there on your Chinese passport. If you do that, however, the Chinese Consulates may be hesitant to issue you a visa for a later trip.

 

...

I think where he would end up in trouble would be when he showed his US passport to exit, they would see that he had overstayed his visa which would most probably be a short term visa. Also it wouldn't even show an entry for when he entered china in the first place, this would also be a problem.

 

I believe the question involved leaving the US on your US passport, and then entering China on your Chinese passport, in which case you wouldn't be restricted by the Chinese visa while in China. If you did enter China on a US passport with a China visa, however, I'm not sure if when you attempt to exit on your Chinese passport you'd necessarily have a problem, since at that time they'd be looking for your ability to leave (i.e., a visa or permit from another country or region in your Chinese passport - not evidence of when you entered). Nonetheless, you may encounter some problems as they do monitor foreigners stays in China. When you enter you have to indicate where you will be staying and if you do not stay in a hotel, you fill out the infamous yellow slip at the local PSB (and if you do, the hotel fills out a record for you). Given that, if you do choose to use your US passport to enter China, you should follow the visa restrictions and not attempt to later use your PRC passport to exit.

Edited January 31, 2007 by NY-Viking (see edit history)

[SirLancelot]

 

However, the airline only looks for a visa if the country you are travelling to requires one. So, if you are going directly to China, then they'll look. On the other hand if you go to Hong Kong first, you don't need a visa, so they won't give you a problem.

 

Additionally, I'm not sure what the rules are. I think the airline won't give you a boarding pass because they don't want to be held responsible if you are denied entry on arrival in the foreign country. In other words, they don't want to have to put you right back on a plane (that might be booked solid), and they don't want you suing them when you get back to America for not telling you that you needed a visa.

 

But if you made a big stink about it at the airport and said you'd get on the plane and be responsible for not having a visa and not hold them responsible, I'm not sure what they'd do. Even though US airlines collect the I-94 stubs for foreigners that are exiting, the airlines aren't the "visa police". They're private companies providing passage. Chances are they would let you on the plane. I think I remember having to explain to them once that my wife (then girlfriend) didn't need a Chinese visa because she was a Chinese citizen. And as you stated in your post, you have to show them sometimes that you have a valid visa. Seems to follow that you could argue with them that you are entitled to travel to a certain country without having the visa. But this is all conjecture.

 

I strongly agree with Viking here. The US has NO exit boarder control. When you leave the US, the US government doesn't care at all. The airlines do check to see if you have the proper visa for your intended destination because they want to cover their asses, in case you are rejected by immigrations at the destination country. In most countries, they are held liable to return the rejected party back to the country of origin. So the airlines care if you have the proper visa but the US government could care less.

 

Where I disagree with Viking is where he says conceivably the passenger could disclaim the airlines from liability and demand that he be allowed to board the plane without a proper visa. That I think is highly unlikely. If the airline has a policy in place, then no amount of negotiation is going to allow the passenger to board without the proper visa.

 

For travel to China, it's difficult in these scenarios because both countries require visitors to have visas. That's where the crux of the problem lies. If you are a citizen of both countries then that means you have NO green card for either. Then that means no matter which passport you use to enter, when you return, you'll need to use the same passport as the one you entered because of the visa requirements. You can't get around it very easily.

 

One possible work-around is to travel to a country which doesn't require a visa to enter first. For example, if you travel to Japan first. A US visitor does not need any visas to visit Japan. So a USC holder with US passport could travel to Japan and then when traveling from Japan to China, the USC can switch to his or her Chinese passport. But then how do you exit Japan on a Chinese passport? You probably needed a visa to enter Japan on the Chinese passport. So you're screwed there too.

 

It's very difficult. You need a visitor visa to HK too as well, UNLESS you are transiting through HK to China, but then you need to show a Chinese visa stamped in your US passport. Otherwise the USC needs to have a HK visitor visa in his US passport.

Edited January 31, 2007 by SirLancelot (see edit history)

[PapaBear]

Where I disagree with Viking is where he says conceivably the passenger could disclaim the airlines from liability and demand that he be allowed to board the plane without a proper visa. That I think is highly unlikely. If the airline has a policy in place, then no amount of negotiation is going to allow the passenger to board without the proper visa.

 

Lance I agree with you here....makes perfect sense.

 

One possible work-around is to travel to a country which doesn't require a visa to enter first. For example, if you travel to Japan first. A US visitor does not need any visas to visit Japan. So a USC holder with US passport could travel to Japan and then when traveling from Japan to China, the USC can switch to his or her Chinese passport. But then how do you exit Japan on a Chinese passport? You probably needed a visa to enter Japan on the Chinese passport. So you're screwed there too.

 

It's very difficult. You need a visitor visa to HK too as well, UNLESS you are transiting through HK to China, but then you need to show a Chinese visa stamped in your US passport. Otherwise the USC needs to have a HK visitor visa in his US passport.

 

But I don't see the point to your rational here. What's the point you're trying to express?

 

Like I said earlier....using two passports? I don't think so!! You're just asking for serious trouble!! A room with bars!!!

 

PapaBear

[Tom R]

Ok, I know this is really old thread but the question I have pertains to the thread title.

 

So, I have been living in China with my Chinese wife since January on a 10yr-180 day-Q2 visa. My wife has a B1/B2 visa for the US and has been to the States many times, as this is her third or fourth visa.

 

We are travelling back to the States together for a month to visit my family in a couple days. So, when going through the US POE, should we just go through together in the US citizen line? Because if I remember right, they want families to go through together.

 

Or should she go through the foreigner line and I through the US citizen line? In which case, do we say that we're travelling together or not?

 

Also, should she bring anything along with her to prove that she will return to China, as she has already done many times before?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any and all advice,

 

Tom

Edited June 2, 2015 by tomrebbe (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

Ok, I know this is really old thread but the question I have pertains to the thread title.

 

So, I have been living in China with my Chinese wife since January on a 10yr-180 day-Q2 visa. My wife has a B1/B2 visa for the US and has been to the States many times, as this is her third or fourth visa.

 

We are travelling back to the States together for a month to visit my family in a couple days. So, when going through the US POE, should we just go through together in the US citizen line? Because if I remember right, they want families to go through together.

 

Or should she go through the foreigner line and I through the US citizen line? In which case, do we say that we're travelling together or not?

 

Also, should she bring anything along with her to prove that she will return to China, as she has already done many times before?

 

 

Thanks in advance for any and all advice,

 

Tom

In this case no, she is not immigrating so would go through the visitor's line, however you can always ask the helper at the beginning of the line, they may direct you to stick with her in the visitor's line, or they may direct her to stay with you in the resident/citizen line.

[jonathantwu]

 

The US requires citizens to only travel on their US passport.

Is the only time a Chinese would need a visa would be if they have a U.S. Passport? I have noticed on the Visa Application form it is in English and Chinese. It states applicants born in China who apply Chinese visa with his or her new foreign passport is required to submit his or her Chinese passport or last foreign passport.

 

 

Just applied for my Chinese Q2 visa and knew a thing or two about holding a Chinese passport or even a Taiwanese passport.

 

First: Always use US passport when exit US. It is required or you will be in trouble when there is no record of you leaving when you come back from your trip.

Second: You need a Chinese visa to enter China thus you have to go to one of the consulates for your states (fun time, I know).

Then: Upon seeing your birthplace on your US passport, they will require to see your old passport if it says China, Taiwan, etc.

Finally: You will get your Chinese visa attached to your US passport along with your cancelled Chinese passport since China does not allow Dual citizenship. That's the SOP for Chinese consulate. See, there is really no chance for the two passport scheme to work here.

 

If for some foolish reasons you don't get a Chinese visa and try to use your Chinese passport to enter China, you would:

1. Get busted at the airport if they already have a file on you being a citizen of another country, or

2. Upon leaving China, you have a Chinese passport that does not have a US visa that the airline will let you on the plane nor does your US passport have a stamp for an entry in their system. You will get busted.

 

So having a dual passport against Chinese laws only going to get you hassles with no real benefits.

Edited June 3, 2015 by jonathantwu (see edit history)