GDBILL
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Posts posted by GDBILL
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Aren't there some good tax benefits to working overseas? I had heard that the first $90,000 in foreign income is not taxable. Is that true?
True.
The problem is that in, for example, China you must pay Chinese taxes on your income and the tax rates here can be much higher in the US.
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Mike,
Don't know how it is now, but when we were seriously considering money transfers and conversions as you suggested three years ago, we were advised against it. Creates a very serious money trail, and invites scrutiny from bank examiners. It may be legal, but this is China---appearances matter too, and bank examiners need to prove their existence, particularly, if their institutions many not be entirely on the up & up with much lager clients.
You're absolutely correct. When I was considering "upgrading" Jin's car to a TANK - for safety (Toyota Land Cruiser) I talked with the BOC VP about the restrictions. He basically said bringing money in to purchase something - i.e. a house or car or business - was NO problem and they could actually convert USD to RMB for that purpose, in excess of the $50K USD a year restriction. The issue was getting it back out. He said that "at that time" there was no method to "reverse" the process - i.e. sell house - convert all the money to USD at once and move back to the US. This issue, the repatriation of the money, was what caused me not to buy investment properties or spend money on something that I might not have gotten any use out of.
I also did lightly touch on the issue that you brought up - tracking inflows and outflows - his position, and my eventual position, was that "legal activities" such as Real Estate investments, advantages in RMB-USD rates, China CD's, Stock market, and legitimate businesses - all properly documented would not in any way cause the Bank or the individual problems. Sort of like in the US. Unfortunately, it's always not easy to know what is a legal investment/business in China - part of my decision to not do anything other than enjoy my fiance/now wife, food and my attempt to learn to speak Mandarin!
If you sell real estate you can now get approval from SAFE to convert your RMB into foreign currency without limit. You do need to provide documentation which makes it extremely difficult to game the system.
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True. One person can only convert 50K per year. 10 people can 50x10, half a million/yr. So after they linked all the banks online, people start using 10, 20 people to help convert by sending 50kUS to each friends and relative and then after conversion, have the money send to him or her in the PRC bank account.
End of last year, BOC said, there is a limit. You can only send up to 5 people from an offshore account a year to convert. Say if you send to 10 people, the other 5's application to convert may be denied. But they only track the account number of the sender. If you have two or three separate accounts offshore, you can send to 5 people from each account and have them help you convert.
On the way out, there is also the same 50K USD conversion limit, but you can also use multiple people to help.
Larger amounts can be done through swap, arranged, sometimes by your private banker to match outward and inward remittance needs. I would certainly avoid the latter, as it is in violation of the foreign exchange rules.
One legal way to get money in and out for large, large amounts is through banks, called Nei Bao Wai Dai, through company.
This is how it work: you have a PRC business, say with 100 million RMB cash and no book profit yet. You deposit this 100 million with a PRC bank, which will issue a standby letter of credit in favor of your PRC company's offshore subsidiary. The subsidiary borrows against this LC in the same amount of deposit in USD. When the RMB is free to be remitted out, the thing is reversed. The standby LC is registered with state administration of foreign exchange (SAFE) and follow the procedure set up by SAFE, so it is perfectly legal. The cost is quite reasonable at present. Only limit is the bank's quota for this. Some banks have bigger quota and some have a small quota or none. But getting 300 to 500 million RMB out should not be that difficult.
If you default on the offshore loan, your RMB is taken by the bank.
Thanks Tony - for the information - good to know.
Additionally, when I was bumping into this issue when I lived in China - I realized - that I could get RMB another way - albeit slowly. I had three bank cards - two of which "reimburse me for ATM fees", so I could essentially convert - and withdraw 9000 RMB per day. (I realize if I opened a BofA account - I could do it free as well with CC....Bank as well - but I was ok with the 6000/or/9000 RMB a day.) In theory - I could open a couple of BofA accounts and the existing ones I had - now with my wifes separate accounts/cards I could run about 24,000 RMB a day - quickly adding up to serious money - with the only cost being the currency conversion by the card company - something I saw as equal to the BOC charges for conversion. However - a lot of work - and once it's in the bank in China - you have the same problems bringing it BACK!
Using fee-free relationships between, say, Bank of America and China Construction Bank is one way to avoid the $50k annual conversion limits. Another way is to use the money changers commonly found near most major branches of Bank of China. Yes, there is some risk, but it is usually minimal.
What most major multi-national companies in China do to get forex for staff overseas travel is to use a trusted money changer. You call them, they come to your office and conduct the transaction. Again, very minimal risk.
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Want to start this new thread if it is not already out there yet.
How about for us who marry Chinese and decide to stay in China.
What kind of job opportunities are out there for professional Americans in the technical field ? Where ? I think Shanghai is probably the best....
Let's start a discussion . Thanks.
I'd say a lot depends on what field you are qualified in, the exact qualifications you have, what position within that field you would accept, salary requirements and what your target employer is.
If you are looking for a job teaching English, it seems the only requirement is that you have a pulse. If you are looking for a job in a different industry and are willing to work for sub-par local wages, you'll find it is, DOQ, not impossible.
If you are looking for an employer amongst the Fortune < 500, it is virtually impossible. We, for example, virtually never hire in-country regardless of ones qualifications or one's willingness to work on a local package. You would have to be an overseas employee of ours for some time and then "seconded" to our China office.
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What's the best way for a U.S. citizen to invest in RMB with USD? I have heard there are restrictions on who can open RMB accounts, also on how much you can transfer in and out. Anyone have some experience?
If you are physically in China and have valid ID, anybody can open a bank account without restrictions.
There is no limit to how much foreign currency you can transfer into China, but there is a $50k per year limit on:
1. Exchange of foreign currency into RMB; and
2. Exchange of RMB into foreign currency; and
3. Wiring foreign currency out of China.
There are exceptions to the limits, above, most notably for investment in real estate. It seems, however, that real estate investment as a way to leverage the rise of the RMB is no longer attractive. Seems that ship has sailed.
What can someone without a valid ID do?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Banks are quite strict with ID and they check every ID card in the Ministry of Public Security database when you open an account.
You must have either a Chinese ID card, valid passport, valid military ID or a Chinese hukou book.
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True. One person can only convert 50K per year. 10 people can 50x10, half a million/yr. So after they linked all the banks online, people start using 10, 20 people to help convert by sending 50kUS to each friends and relative and then after conversion, have the money send to him or her in the PRC bank account.
End of last year, BOC said, there is a limit. You can only send up to 5 people from an offshore account a year to convert. Say if you send to 10 people, the other 5's application to convert may be denied. But they only track the account number of the sender. If you have two or three separate accounts offshore, you can send to 5 people from each account and have them help you convert.
On the way out, there is also the same 50K USD conversion limit, but you can also use multiple people to help.
Larger amounts can be done through swap, arranged, sometimes by your private banker to match outward and inward remittance needs. I would certainly avoid the latter, as it is in violation of the foreign exchange rules.
One legal way to get money in and out for large, large amounts is through banks, called Nei Bao Wai Dai, through company.
This is how it work: you have a PRC business, say with 100 million RMB cash and no book profit yet. You deposit this 100 million with a PRC bank, which will issue a standby letter of credit in favor of your PRC company's offshore subsidiary. The subsidiary borrows against this LC in the same amount of deposit in USD. When the RMB is free to be remitted out, the thing is reversed. The standby LC is registered with state administration of foreign exchange (SAFE) and follow the procedure set up by SAFE, so it is perfectly legal. The cost is quite reasonable at present. Only limit is the bank's quota for this. Some banks have bigger quota and some have a small quota or none. But getting 300 to 500 million RMB out should not be that difficult.
If you default on the offshore loan, your RMB is taken by the bank.
I'm still confused.
Are you saying that I can only wire money out to six different overseas accounts?
Or that only 6 people in China can wire money to the same overseas account?
Or that only up to 6 people in China can receive money from the same overseas bank account?
ICBC just opened up overseas mortgages in US$, for what it's worth. I might take them up on one.
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hummm, not sure how stores deal with such problem here in China.
Cuzzins, any of ya'll wanna try for the PowerBall?
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hummm, not sure how stores deal with such problem here in China.
Any volunteers to find out?
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1/3 of the amount recovered, not a bad deal. GBILL, want to sign a retainer before you go?
Wait a second there Lone Ranger ...
You mean I give you 1/3 to handle the negotiations for me? Sounds ok to me.
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There is also a limit of transfer to 5 accounts from each offshore account. This is to curb people like me who use friends and relatives to convert 50k US a year. But you can still use multiple offshore accounts and tranfer to 250k total (5x 50k) for each account. To get money out, you can do the reverse or use other means to convert out. Once the money is in, there are some pretty conservative investment products such as libor linked (2.65% /yr for one to three months terms, interest and principal guaranteed, or longer term trust company products that give you about 6% yield). Real estate may be a good buy at year end or beginning of next year (right before Chinese New Year when developers have real tight cash flow problems), but right now it is too risky.
Tony - not only what do you mean - but I was under the impression that "1 person" could only transfer out of country or convert $50K USD per calendar year. Could you straighten me out on this please?
Why I think this: When I lived in China, albeit it was 2 years ago, I spent considerable time discussing this with BOC and HSBC. Essentially, they told me that there is a banking/Gov't computer system they must check each time that they convert or transfer money from-into USD - and that each person is limited to the $50k, per calendar year. Both HSBC & BOC (Premier and BOC Great Wall accounts) told me the same thing.
Additionally, two days ago I listed my house in Hawaii for sale - and the real estate lady - relayed a story of a Chinese guy who owns a Coal Mine - just bought a house in our building - and he had to get "lot's" of people to send/convert RMB to USD. She essentially said it took them almost a month to get the USD $1M here to buy the place. I was surprised at this as I would've thought a businessman could've found a way to circumvent the system. She also indicated it was almost as hard for him when he bought a place in Vancouver as well. News to me.
Thanks.
You are right about the online system. The State Administration of Foreign Exchange has a computer system which all banks must utilize when conducting foreign exchange operations. Unless the SAFE system ok's the transaction, there can be no exchange. It is updated in realtime so if you buy, say, $50k at ICBC and walk across the street to Bank of China they will see it in their system and decline the transaction.
There is a similar system for outgoing wire transfers. Incoming is no problem.
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Stand your ground China...Don't back down.
tsap seui
Ronnie you like myself are entitled to our opinions. I am surprised that you would you would take a stand against the USA. I read in your posts that you went beyond the call of duty in Nam. You demonstrated bravery and call to duty. You believed then in Duty, Honor, Country. Today according to your posts you have been able to have very sizeable VA benefits and pensions for your heroic efforts. Yea you and your Special Other got got a raw deal in Guangzhou.
If the US continues to loose jobs and wealth there will be no funds to help veterans like yourself and the American people. Looking out for each other begins at home.
Narrow-minded approach.
I guess using your logic it's ok to be intellectually dishonest, lie, steal ... maybe even murder ... if it's for your country.
I'm going to be right up front with you. I do not like you or your caustic remarks about the US. I complimented Tsap Seui for his courage and dedication. Ijust wonderd why he would be giving China credenance.
This is something that a person like you is not accustomed to. You have hostile contempt for our country and therefore you have contempt for my family and my way of life. Where I come from and you spoke of the US the way you have, you would need an athletic supporter, plenty of beef steak and your cologne would be of the scent of Ben Gay. Why don't you sign the necessary papers and become a person w/o a country and proclaim your self a true 5th columnist that you really are. You are a very angry insignificant zero. Your handle tells it all GDBILL thats where you will wind up at. You blasphemous loser. I have been shown some of your PMs to other members that you used nothing but idle threats and vulgarity towards them, When a person uses vulgarity the way you do toward people it shows your dedication to your low self esteem and poor self imaging. I do have to warn you some of these guys are real men and they do not like being threaten or called names by a zilch like you. I would recomend that you never go to a CFL get together. You may have the chance to meet someone from the 6 o'clock news.... All bad.
Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head at birth?
Your moronic drivel (i.e. comments) -- not to mention your blind, brain-dead tendency to believe the trailer-park-trash myth that everything "us" is good and everything "them" is bad -- shows just how many more light years a moron like you needs to move up to the Neanderthal step of the evolutionary ladder.
Enjoy your new double-wide.
Gee you must have read your Funk and Wagnels this week. Most likely in Braille. You are a flake. You use multiple CFL screen names to get your message across. One screen name you are a conservative then the next your are a USA hating SOB wack job. You are a phoney and a person with serious mental disorders. Is Damien calling GD Bill? Hearing strange voices lately? Talking to yourself and answering yourself by saying huh?
Earth is full. Go home.
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Not sure how many they can attract. Last time I was in the bay area, it seems that most of the computer programers are either Chinese, Indian or Russian. For the Chinese, at least the friends I know, they don't want to move back unless there is a big difference in pay. They are pretty well settled and the wives don't want them to come back. Don't think the Indians or Russians will come, either.
The last time China Investment Corp. went to wall street to recruit, offering salaries ranging from US100K to 150k/yr and did attract a few laid off second year analysts who has since moved on again. Not sure how much Baidu can pay for senior engineers.
Not sure what Baidu is thinking, but most of the time when the Chinese government is talking the "overseas talent" talk what they really mean is overseas Chinese talent.
Still, Baidu is going to have to make some very attractive offers. And those who take those offers are going to have to think long and hard whether it is worth it to take a high-paying job in China that is, at best, temporary.
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There is also a limit of transfer to 5 accounts from each offshore account. This is to curb people like me who use friends and relatives to convert 50k US a year. But you can still use multiple offshore accounts and tranfer to 250k total (5x 50k) for each account. To get money out, you can do the reverse or use other means to convert out. Once the money is in, there are some pretty conservative investment products such as libor linked (2.65% /yr for one to three months terms, interest and principal guaranteed, or longer term trust company products that give you about 6% yield). Real estate may be a good buy at year end or beginning of next year (right before Chinese New Year when developers have real tight cash flow problems), but right now it is too risky.
What do you mean?
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Just read on China Daily that Baidu is hiring American software engineers to work in China. Any of you guys qualified? If they pay in RMB, you will get the benefit of the rising Yuan.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2010...nt_10035299.htm
Probably only temporary contracts given the newest Chinese labor laws, but I'd bet the pay will be pretty decent.
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What's the best way for a U.S. citizen to invest in RMB with USD? I have heard there are restrictions on who can open RMB accounts, also on how much you can transfer in and out. Anyone have some experience?
If you are physically in China and have valid ID, anybody can open a bank account without restrictions.
There is no limit to how much foreign currency you can transfer into China, but there is a $50k per year limit on:
1. Exchange of foreign currency into RMB; and
2. Exchange of RMB into foreign currency; and
3. Wiring foreign currency out of China.
There are exceptions to the limits, above, most notably for investment in real estate. It seems, however, that real estate investment as a way to leverage the rise of the RMB is no longer attractive. Seems that ship has sailed.
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Enjoy your new double-wide.
I just wanted to add that some of the newest double-wides are extremely nice...
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Actually, it's not true until they are convicted.
Nope, liable/slander is a civil matter, Bill. While a conviction would be conclusive evidence, eyewitness testimony and videotape evidence would likely suffice in a civil trial. ...that said, your point about the goldmine remains valid.
I agree with you about the extortion...but just couldn't bring myself to admit the error of their method
That's for clarifying that.
I'm going home on a working vacation for two months so I'll try and find a nice Chinese supermarket to cash in on.
And I bet you will do just that!
Hell yes!!
I betcha a fellar can clear $4,000 a day. Better racket than shining.
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I am kinda on edge when I see articles like this. As I am typing, the wife is on a train to Jiangxi. Last week a train wrecked there because of an avalanche. I will feel a whole lot better when she gets off that damn train and is ok.
So many natural disasters lately. Makes you wonder about how fragile life really is and reinforces the idea that staying home, making youngins, tending to the crops and drinking shine are all we should be doing.
She'll be ok, cuzzin Ord. Next time tell her to fly.
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Actually, it's not true until they are convicted.
Nope, liable/slander is a civil matter, Bill. While a conviction would be conclusive evidence, eyewitness testimony and videotape evidence would likely suffice in a civil trial. ...that said, your point about the goldmine remains valid.
I agree with you about the extortion...but just couldn't bring myself to admit the error of their method
That's for clarifying that.
I'm going home on a working vacation for two months so I'll try and find a nice Chinese supermarket to cash in on.
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Just a dumb question from a dumb hillbilly......... Jes who is it that gets the final say on what the CNY is worth?
Cuzzin Ord, both you and I would like to know.
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Day two -
June 22, 2010, 2:44 a.m. EDT ¡¤ Recommend ¡¤ Post:Yuan moves won't be a one-way street
HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- The Chinese yuan declined against the U.S. dollar Tuesday to reverse some of its strong gains from the previous day, highlighting that the China unit's moves won't be all in one direction following the loosening of its de-facto peg to the greenback.
Such volatility may be essential to keep short-term speculators from placing one-way bets on the yuan's appreciation and could also curb overly large fund flows into China -- the kind which create asset bubbles -- say analysts.
"Some people are even talking about a 5% to 10% appreciation [in the yuan] over a six-month period. That's just way too bullish. And this sentiment may lead to overreaction in the market," said Jun Ma, chief economist for the Greater China region at Deutsche Bank.
"With volatility, some people with a short-term horizon might be afraid of losing money," said Ma.
C_CNY 6.83, 0.00, -0.05%
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/yuan-move...2?siteid=YAHOOB
I think this possibility was mentioned in a few articles that appeared in China Daily. Do you think they did this (the gain followed by sudden loss) on purpose just to discourage an inflow of hot money?
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Stand your ground China...Don't back down.
tsap seui
Ronnie you like myself are entitled to our opinions. I am surprised that you would you would take a stand against the USA. I read in your posts that you went beyond the call of duty in Nam. You demonstrated bravery and call to duty. You believed then in Duty, Honor, Country. Today according to your posts you have been able to have very sizeable VA benefits and pensions for your heroic efforts. Yea you and your Special Other got got a raw deal in Guangzhou.
If the US continues to loose jobs and wealth there will be no funds to help veterans like yourself and the American people. Looking out for each other begins at home.
Narrow-minded approach.
I guess using your logic it's ok to be intellectually dishonest, lie, steal ... maybe even murder ... if it's for your country.
I'm going to be right up front with you. I do not like you or your caustic remarks about the US. I complimented Tsap Seui for his courage and dedication. Ijust wonderd why he would be giving China credenance.
This is something that a person like you is not accustomed to. You have hostile contempt for our country and therefore you have contempt for my family and my way of life. Where I come from and you spoke of the US the way you have, you would need an athletic supporter, plenty of beef steak and your cologne would be of the scent of Ben Gay. Why don't you sign the necessary papers and become a person w/o a country and proclaim your self a true 5th columnist that you really are. You are a very angry insignificant zero. Your handle tells it all GDBILL thats where you will wind up at. You blasphemous loser. I have been shown some of your PMs to other members that you used nothing but idle threats and vulgarity towards them, When a person uses vulgarity the way you do toward people it shows your dedication to your low self esteem and poor self imaging. I do have to warn you some of these guys are real men and they do not like being threaten or called names by a zilch like you. I would recomend that you never go to a CFL get together. You may have the chance to meet someone from the 6 o'clock news.... All bad.
Are you retarded or were you dropped on your head at birth?
Your moronic drivel (i.e. comments) -- not to mention your blind, brain-dead tendency to believe the trailer-park-trash myth that everything "us" is good and everything "them" is bad -- shows just how many more light years a moron like you needs to move up to the Neanderthal step of the evolutionary ladder.
Enjoy your new double-wide.
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Stand your ground China...Don't back down.
tsap seui
Ronnie you like myself are entitled to our opinions. I am surprised that you would you would take a stand against the USA. I read in your posts that you went beyond the call of duty in Nam. You demonstrated bravery and call to duty. You believed then in Duty, Honor, Country. Today according to your posts you have been able to have very sizeable VA benefits and pensions for your heroic efforts. Yea you and your Special Other got got a raw deal in Guangzhou.
If the US continues to loose jobs and wealth there will be no funds to help veterans like yourself and the American people. Looking out for each other begins at home.
Narrow-minded approach.
I guess using your logic it's ok to be intellectually dishonest, lie, steal ... maybe even murder ... if it's for your country.
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With the sort of coddling criminals get, I kinda like the approach. The Chinatown community advocate doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, he'd better talk with an attorney:
>>>¡°If a store owner says he¡¯ll call the police unless you pay up, that¡¯s extortion, that¡¯s illegal...¡±
No, pay for what you took and my trouble catching you or I'll call the cops is fair treatment. ...but the $2k may be a bit much
>>>¡°...And putting up pictures in public, calling someone a thief who has never even been formally charged, that¡¯s a violation of their civil rights.¡±
Nope! It's not a violation of anything if it's true. If they are incorrect, then it is a matter of liable and/or slander in the courts.
Actually, it's not true until they are convicted. I'm just waiting until someone realizes that it's a virtual gold mine to pretend to be a shoplifter and then have them pull those Chinese stunts on you.
If the shop owner says pay for what you took or I'll call the police, that's fine. As soon as you add an extra amount to the actual value of the item, that most certainly is extortion.
Jobs for Americans
in Expats
Posted
Right, no taxes.
Only crazed extremists who every once in a while attack expat compounds and kill as many people as possible. It happens there.