JamesnYuHong

I first touched Mandarin when I was 22. Fortunately I learned the tones and pronunciation pretty well then -- not from a class, but from a girl I was dating. I'm 36 now, and have studied off and on over the years -- predominately "off." I've had a few bursts where I studied hard for months at a time, maybe even a year. I haven't studied seriously in a few years. Have been married to a Chinese woman (not the original one) for eight years now. I can understand most casual conversations, if the topic is something I'm familiar with. Chinese people, like people anywhere, tend to talk about the same things again and again. I don't have the world's best vocabulary, maybe 3,000 words. I've never seriously studied characters, never attended classes, though I had about seven sessions with a tutor about 12 years ago. I can speak about run-of-the-mill topics, though I get stuck frequently and am not as good at talking as I am at listening. I don't have to speak Mandarin that often, and when I do, it's light-duty. I have no doubt at all that with proper time and inclination, I could attain some form of "fluency" within a year or two. I doubt it's going to happen, because there are other ways I need to spend my time, such as raising my family and earning a living. The cost-benefit ratio doesn't work. I would call it half-decent Chinese with half-assed effort. I do not think Chinese is as hard as many posters are making it out to be. Granted, I started at a younger age. There is probably also some natural aptitude that factors in. I don't think age is a real issue in terms of cognitive ability to learn words and grammar, at least not until well into the retirement years. However, as we age, our identity and self-image set firmer and firmer. Making new sounds, speaking in a new language, feel more and more awkward and threatening to our ego. At a younger age, before that is all firmly fixed, it's easier to step out of our comfort zone. To me, the best thing you can do is get the pronunciation right from the beginning. I was obsessed with figuring out the tones when I started. The thing that helped me down the road was making a bunch of flash cards. It was before smartphones. I made them by hand. I went to the library and copied useful-looking words from Chinese-learning books, then drilled myself. My wife always had a lot of friends over, and I would gradually hear more and more of the words I had learned. Eventually there's an inflection point where you understand the majority and just have to ask what a word means here or there.

This questions concerns a U.S. tourist visa for a young woman (age 20) in China and her father. They are connected to my wife's family by marriage, though they are not blood relatives. My wife is friends with the young woman, who is a college student, and they want to come visit us for a few weeks. (They all loosely call themselves cousins.) What can we do to help them be approved for tourist visas? I know that young single woman sometimes have a tough time getting such visas. We have prepared invitation letters. What documents would be best to bring to the interview? How likely are their chances of being approved?

Because some people want the ability to move freely between two countries for work business, family or personal reasons. They want to be able to live three years in the U.S., two in China, five in the U.S., one in China, and so on. And no matter where they are, they always want to keep open the option of moving back to the other country permanently. Current regulations on both sides make this either extremely messy or downright impossible for people originating from mainland China, no matter which citizenship they choose. The only semi-exception is a Chinese person who has naturalized as a U.S. citizen and then works in China with a Z-visa. But it's still a far cry from dual citizenship. Hopefully, China will one day legalize dual citizenship. Until then, people will try to obtain it covertly.

My wife has immigrant visa stamp in her passport, and greencard, but she still is and intends to stay a China citizen, so I don't think that would be a problem. How I have read people do this is: 1) Get US citizenship, and keep china passport. 2) If traveling to anywhere except China, use US passport. 3) If travelling to China, use US passport to Hong Kong, then China passport into China and back out, the return to USA on US passport. Never EVER let anyone see you have 2 passports! Also, with China/Taiwan opening up, that will soon be a better way. Taiwan recognizes dual citizenship, and will happily stamp both passports for you on entry/exit. Really, it will stamp them both? Why do you say it will "soon" be a better way? What is the obstacle now? Mainlanders have a hard time entering? Just curious.

Interesting. The comments, more so than the post. I liked this point about classical Chinese: It echoes a point made by John Moser in an article called Why Chinese Is So Damn Hard. He notes that "whereas modern Mandarin is merely perversely hard, classical Chinese is deliberately impossible" and makes this comparison: Unfortunately, modern Mandarin is full of idioms and other little twists that come from classical Chinese. There are also the many references to culture, both historical and present, that are hard for a foreigner to catch. I guess it's like that with any language. If you get a group of American guys together, ages 30 to 50, think of how many times they might reference song lyrics, anything from Led Zeppelin to Tone Loc (Funky Cold Medina!) Also, if they're white collar guys, how many times would they quote verbatim from the movie Office Space? How would a Chinese person ever make sense of it all? Fortunately, modern Chinese mainly talk about food and making money, so if you know how to talk about those topics, you're more than halfway to fluency.

Wondered why you feel that most Chinese wives would be reluctant to go overseas, or to have their husband work abroad? I do not necessarily disagree. I really don't know how the majority would think on this issue. There are, of course, a few cases where the couple have either gone to stay in China or plan to do so. I think my own wife would consider going, but the situation would have to be just right. The obstacles would be financial and the feeling that the U.S. is a good place to raise kids. What are the factors that you feel would prevent most from wanting to go abroad? There are the obvious advantages of being close to kin.

The key here would be to take a trip to China and renew your passport in-country, rather than from the U.S.

The Chinese are masters of this. It's what they recently did with the visa policy for spouses and relatives of Chinese nationals.

It is hard for me to imagine any man save his wife and let his child float on downstream. Even harder for me to imagine any wife doing the same for the husband. I think that most people who have had kids would agree. Most would save the kids above all else.

Does anyone have experience actually doing this? Wondering if it would be better to apply for the extension, or to have her go back to China and then return. If the latter, anyone know how long she would need to spend in China?

My mother-in-law is here on a visitor's visa. It was stamped for a 6-month stay, which will soon end. Does anyone know how likely it is that an extension would be approved? Any advice? Or better for her to go home to China and then return? Thanks!

Pimsleur can be pretty useful in the early stages of learning Mandarin. I would not recommend using it as Pimsleur advises, though. Pimsleur wants you to focus only on listening and does not provide transcripts. I advise learning pinyin well and going online to find transcripts that people have made on their own for the lessons. Pimseur is good for pronunciation and getting a feel for the language but the vocabulary it introduces is very small, even by level 3.

And now back to the topic at hand: syphilis. To redirect the thread, and for your viewing pictures, here are some nice photographs of syphilitic body parts. Warning: NOT SAFE FOR WORK. http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin/md/cdc/syphilis.html You're welcome!

Pretty sure this is not true. I think it is 100 percent SS benefits.

You know, we start out to have a nice little discussion about babies with syphilis, and you guys have to go and turn it into something unpleasant.