The two-Step Visa Approval Process

[Guest pushbrk]

In another thread, I wrote....

 

I continue to see CFL people focusing on single issues. However, we know that blue slips ask for multiple things. It is counterproductive to analyse the "reason" for the blue slip by focusing on "one" item requested. There are "reasons" plural and/or multiple for further investigation. The purpose of requesting each piece of additional evidence is to rule out a potential concern.

 

The VO's are "profiling" (I don't mean racially.) When the case fits a profile it is treated a certain way until they are satisfied it's only a "profile" not actual visa fraud. There are multiple profiles. They intentionally and wisely refrain from spelling out the details of those profile factors.

 

We do the best we can to surmise what proof and approach will avoid the impression of fitting a profile that requires a second look. Sometimes we fail in that quest. Rarely do we fail the second look. Extremel rarely do we fail the third look.

 

To a portion of the above, DavidZixuan replied...

 

well put Mike...

 

We have long known (even been told from VOs themselves) that any case which appears to need additional review (and this could mean a single document, even one that is in the SOs possession at the interview) , usually results in a request to see this information submitted as overcome--so they can take the 24 hours they are given for review.

 

Usually, the overcome rate is extremely high; third time is quite often the charm.. but the key is to give the substantive proof towards what they are asking.

 

Let's not get into questioning why they don't take it at the interview.. typical they don't ; once in a while a VO might.. but it's the exception and not the norm [based on my observation for the last two years]...

 

I think it would be productive to have a discussion of the whys and wherefores of blue slips that is independent of any specific petitioner/beneficiary combination.

 

I can't even pretend to know the precise answer to what combination of factors promts a blue slip. What I'm pretty sure of is that it IS A COMBINATION of factors in nearly every case.

 

For instance, a low petitioner income, in and of itself could be the first clue in the combination but I would expect that a petitioner's recent divorce or recent divorces for both petitioner and beneficiary combined with a low petitioner income might prompt a request for additional proof of relationship and time to evaluate existing and additional proof before approval. This combination could well be made more firm by a beneficiary's common family name because it is more likely somebody with the same name of the former spouse has recently immigrated to the USA. Indications of communication problems is another flag.

 

In such a case, the petitioner and/or beneficiary are asked to prove they don't still live with their former spouse by proving the former spouse has separate residence. A SSN will allow verification that the former spouse has record of a different address than the petitioner by one or more of a few different sources.

 

The Petitioner's love for their spouse does NOT prove a valid relationship in these circumstances. They could be the innocent victim of fraud. In fraud cases the petitioner often IS innocent.

 

I see a number of posts where a member will say "we're in the exact same circumstances as you..." I would caution those who think that way. What is usually the case is that ONE among many circumstances is very similar but the totality of circumstances is quite different.

 

The information requested on a blue slip will often make no sense when each item requested is viewed individually. To understand, one must calmly step back and draw a logical conclusion about just what possible profile scenario of potential fraud, the VO may wish to rule out. Once reaching that conclusion, those faced with the two-step approval process can logically address the issues as they respond and provide the requested data.

 

I see a lot of questions from petitioners like, "How can the VO decide in two minutes and after two questions, to give us a blue slip?" Yes, we know the VO doesn't see the file until moments before the interview begins. However we also know several people have seen and made notes to the file (some of which may be red flags) BEFORE the VO sees it. Think of the number of steps in the process and the information gathered and verified in advance.

 

Surely others have more to add and/or can provide examples of other "combinations" that prompt blue slips.

 

Let's discuss those and how to best avoid them through good preparation. The thread will be more meaningful if the understandable whining and complaining are vented elsewhere.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

While I know one can analyze this to death, we as citizens are not priviledged to have possession of the criteria listing the specifics that outlines a "profile." I agree that it only makes sense that those that are granting and denying visas will look for triggering events that will lead to further scrutiny. If a trigger event doesn't arise, a quick approval is likely.

 

The best method is to keep it simple. To do that, both the petitioner and beneficiary must be honest with each other, themselves, and exercise due diligence.

 

A few of us have speculated here that denials are less likely for those that interract with others on this site by asking questions and contributing.

 

While the process is long and emotionally taxing, it's really not so complicated as to require the support of a legal team. The old timers on the Candle site have seen a lot of things happen in their time, so they indeed are a resource that is likely more valuable than any attorney.

 

What are the most common reasons for denial?

 

This link can tell a great story...

 

http://uscis.gov/graphics/lawsregs/admindec3/d6/index.htm

 

The vast majority are for two reasons:

 

1. Failure to prove a bona fide relationship

 

2. Suspicion of Visa fraud

 

The US DOS, USCIS, and the Consulate are not interested in talk first, they are interested in facts as backed up by evidence. An omission, a lack of common language, and on the list goes.

 

There are countless threads on this site, and great compilations in the FAQ regarding the questions asked at the interview.

 

The long and short of it is, if you're serious about bringing your partner and family to the United States, do your homework. Be prepared. Don't take shortcuts. It's makes little sense to make it all the way to the interview and be unprepared. There are weeks and months to get ready for that fateful day and the contigincies it holds. If you have a question, ask. If you don't like the answer, ask again. Complete all forms in their entirety. If you've been married before, make sure you provide your partner with original divorce certificates.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think the VOs are really working hard for us. They are on our side, but they have a tough job. There is a high incidence of fraud going on out there. Make it easy on yourself, and easy on them by preparing before you get there....

[frank1538]

nooneufo complied some interesting information regarding blue slips: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...topic=14833&hl=

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

nooneufo complied some interesting information regarding blue slips:  http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?...topic=14833&hl=

218279[/snapback]

That is a very good thread Frank. As Nooneufo states it's often very difficult to get the full story about denials. Unfortunately, those that post when in the midst of the event are caught up in emotion and find it difficult to communicate what's happening. Sometimes, we never really find out the real reasons as some members pop in toward the end of their process and no-one really gets to know them. Then, a saddened post about a denial enters the GVD forum. Many times we never see or hear from them again. Why? Anybody's guess.

[Guest pushbrk]

The long and short of it is, if you're serious about bringing your partner and family to the United States, do your homework. Be prepared. Don't take shortcuts. It's makes little sense to make it all the way to the interview and be unprepared. There are weeks and months to get ready for that fateful day and the contigincies it holds. If you have a question, ask. If you don't like the answer, ask again. Complete all forms in their entirety. If you've been married before, make sure you provide your partner with original divorce certificates.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think the VOs are really working hard for us. They are on our side, but they have a tough job. There is a high incidence of fraud going on out there. Make it easy on yourself, and easy on them by preparing before you get there....

218270[/snapback]

Taking a holistic approach to preparedness, does seem to be the key. After only a few months I (and I'm sure several others) can pretty much predict who is going to get a blue slip. The thing is, it doesn't have to be the disaster many think it's going to be.

 

I'm convinced the most key issue (beyond meeting the requirements and having the forms with you) for success is the level of confidence the SO displays from the first seconds of the interview. It would seem so much easier for them to display that confidence if they all understood that there is no reason to "fear" the possibility of a two-step approval. If it happens, it happens. My wife will be convinced (the best I can) that we are prepared for either one or two steps. She'll have no reason to fear and every reason to be confident and pleasant.

[mercator]

The long and short of it is, if you're serious about bringing your partner and family to the United States, do your homework. Be prepared. Don't take shortcuts. It's makes little sense to make it all the way to the interview and be unprepared. There are weeks and months to get ready for that fateful day and the contigincies it holds. If you have a question, ask. If you don't like the answer, ask again. Complete all forms in their entirety. If you've been married before, make sure you provide your partner with original divorce certificates.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think the VOs are really working hard for us. They are on our side, but they have a tough job. There is a high incidence of fraud going on out there. Make it easy on yourself, and easy on them by preparing before you get there....

218270[/snapback]

Taking a holistic approach to preparedness, does seem to be the key. After only a few months I (and I'm sure several others) can pretty much predict who is going to get a blue slip. The thing is, it doesn't have to be the disaster many think it's going to be.

 

I'm convinced the most key issue (beyond meeting the requirements and having the forms with you) for success is the level of confidence the SO displays from the first seconds of the interview. It would seem so much easier for them to display that confidence if they all understood that there is no reason to "fear" the possibility of a two-step approval. If it happens, it happens. My wife will be convinced (the best I can) that we are prepared for either one or two steps. She'll have no reason to fear and every reason to be confident and pleasant.

218358[/snapback]

So will I get a blue or a red?

 

If it is theoretically blue, what do you think I am lacking?

 

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but rather offering myself up as your guinea pig.

[Guest pushbrk]

The long and short of it is, if you're serious about bringing your partner and family to the United States, do your homework. Be prepared. Don't take shortcuts. It's makes little sense to make it all the way to the interview and be unprepared. There are weeks and months to get ready for that fateful day and the contigincies it holds. If you have a question, ask. If you don't like the answer, ask again. Complete all forms in their entirety. If you've been married before, make sure you provide your partner with original divorce certificates.

 

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I think the VOs are really working hard for us. They are on our side, but they have a tough job. There is a high incidence of fraud going on out there. Make it easy on yourself, and easy on them by preparing before you get there....

218270[/snapback]

Taking a holistic approach to preparedness, does seem to be the key. After only a few months I (and I'm sure several others) can pretty much predict who is going to get a blue slip. The thing is, it doesn't have to be the disaster many think it's going to be.

 

I'm convinced the most key issue (beyond meeting the requirements and having the forms with you) for success is the level of confidence the SO displays from the first seconds of the interview. It would seem so much easier for them to display that confidence if they all understood that there is no reason to "fear" the possibility of a two-step approval. If it happens, it happens. My wife will be convinced (the best I can) that we are prepared for either one or two steps. She'll have no reason to fear and every reason to be confident and pleasant.

218358[/snapback]

So will I get a blue or a red?

 

If it is theoretically blue, what do you think I am lacking?

 

I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but rather offering myself up as your guinea pig.

218376[/snapback]

You've disclosed enough of your own preparation that if you get a blue slip, I'll be quivering in my boots. I'm just hoping to catch you without you slowing down again.

[jim_julian]

You've disclosed enough of your own preparation that if you get a blue slip, I'll be quivering in my boots.  I'm just hoping to catch you without you slowing down again. 

218378[/snapback]

Mike ... you're forgetting one point ... motorcycle dudes ... aiiiyah! ... they bear close watching.

 

On the more serious side, we all should be aware that if the US citizen can get to GZ on Friday and have some sort of comprehensive discussion, checking preparation, etc., that this gets written up in the computer file and is at the top of the list when the VO calls the visa applicant to the window. In our case it totally prepped the VO for the complex K2 issues we had and even mentioned that I had prepared extensive documentation. The point of this is that IF there are a combination of factors (and I totally agree with you here) that might cause suspicion, it MAY be possible for the the US sponsor to kock them down on Friday before the interview.

Edited May 26, 2006 by jim_julian (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

I see three evidential legs supporting this process:

1) documentation evidence

2) the financials evidence

3) relationship evidence

 

Then there are two people sitting at this table:

a ) SO

b ) VO

 

These factors all taken together, both the material side and the human side, produces just enough variation in results. Meaning, there are times when an impeccible case is denied and when a case with apparent flags has no issues... of course, there is everything in between.

 

But we can control the first three for the most part... simple snafu's commonly occur and result in a denial.

 

The SO has a very important role in terms of being the face of the case... that one human factor on our side which helps determine the outcome. Confidence, organization, and presenting answers are paramount.

 

The VO factor is the truly elusive piece to this... One VO doesn't care that the SO cannot speak good english; to another VO, the lack of english is cause for overcome.

 

But, what we can do is study the past interviews and compile what patterns we see in them.. and the Interview FAQ has attempted to show the most likely questions based on different situations (ie: top 10, divorce questions, children questions, etc)...

 

In the end, one needs to remember that overcome is not denial, just a request for more time to look over the case based on requested materials.

 

I have always seen this process as a two part ordeal: Interview and overcome. And I prepared my SO with an understanding that she either gets the visa in one step or two.. and it doesn't matter to us which one it occurs at. If we give them what they want, we should get the visa.

Edited May 26, 2006 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

The article quoted in this thread rather dovetails with this discussion....

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18189