about chinese real estate

[rogerluli]

Our goal is to spend time in China after I retire, if not full time, a good part of the year. I still have not been able to find out how much time I can spend in China as a husband of a Chinese woman.  Anybody know anything about that? Also, can she add my name to her deed on her home?  I am so looking forward to that time, to travel in China, Tibet, and SE Asia. I figure that by then the US will have become totally unacceptable, unlivable by then due to the fascist, subversive, criminal elements in the congress and executive branch.

I am pretty sure that it is possible to live in China full time if you wish as an American citizen. China is realxing it's laws on permanent residents. The question of citizenship is an interesting one. Other threads have said that our SOs cannot retain Chinese citizenship and have US citizenship. MY SO wants to be an American citizen before we retire in China. Without that your travel is going to be restricted and if push does ever come to shove between the US and China it is better for both to be USC, at least we will be shipped out together.We were advised to register our marriage with a Chinese embassy here and then when we travel back to my SOs hukou, where we will be living in 5 years, we will register our marriage there also. Then it should be no problem for you both to be on property deeds.

[mlspyl]

Larry:

 

 

Currently, I (US Citizen) have a 12-month Multi-entry Chinese Visa. Each entry is good for 120 days (4 months). A simple "L" category (Tourist) visa. After I retire I hope to obtain a more long-term visa??? I supplied a copy of each of the following to the Chinese Consulate in Houston for the visa:

 

1. Notarial Marriage Certificate

2. "Red" Marriage Booklet

3. "Deed" to apartment that my wife and I own in China

 

The consulate kept items 1 and 2 only.

 

 

We bought a house (apartment) in China last year (2004). On the "Deed" (the deed does not look like an American deed to property) both of our names were registered. In addition, the percentage of ownership is explicitly stated (in our case 50% each). In regards to land ownership, we are in a big city and the "Deed" is good for 70 years, we do not own the land.

 

Like miany I think. we want to live in China and the United States (finances permitting). In our case my wife wants to spend 3-4 months each year after she receives her green card. Whike I am still working (which will still be for a long while), I will use all my vacation in China.

 

This is our plan anyways !!!! I hope this helps you.

 

 

Mark

[Guest blsqueaky]

My next step is to have her talk to her brother in law, and find out some more, since he and his father own, and I will let everyone know. Maybe this is something that Don can pin in Links

That would be great Mark. Then we could add info as we find it out.

Okay Roger, here is the latest that I have just been told, yes, pay interest, yes, pay 10% down, and if put the house in both of your names, no taxes. While we are back in the states, we can rent out the house with just 1 year agreements, which will have to be drawn up by lawyer(yech, hate them) regarding payments, which will be 5-10%, possibly even 25%, since the place I am looking at is not in the city, over the mortgage amount, and cover any damages. This is something that I will have the brother in law take care of. She is already telling me that when we return, we will be looking and talking to the banks, realtors, and translator.

 

Talked to my acct, and she told me that yes, even though property is in China, I can right it off. Will have to check into this somemore, but seems right, still paying interest to a world bank.

[rogerluli]

Okay Roger, here is the latest that I have just been told, yes, pay interest, yes, pay 10% down, and if put the house in both of your names, no taxes. While we are back in the states, we can rent out the house with just 1 year agreements, which will have to be drawn up by lawyer(yech, hate them) regarding payments, which will be 5-10%, possibly even 25%, since the place I am looking at is not in the city,  over the mortgage amount, and cover any damages. This is something that I will have the brother in law take care of. She is already telling me that when we return, we will be looking and talking to the banks, realtors, and translator.

 

Talked to my acct, and she told me that yes, even though property is in China, I can right it off. Will have to check into this somemore, but seems right, still paying interest to a world bank.

Great info Mark. I am surprised that you could buy a house in China and write off the mortagage interest on your US income taxes but I'll take it if that is right. Sounds very appealing to buy a house for 10% down and be able to get over your payment in rent. I thought that there are no annual property taxes but you will pay some tax when you buy the property. Are you saying there are no taxes at all? I had thought we would wait 2 years to buy a place but now I think only 1. I know my SO will be chomping at the bit as soon as she is here to buy a house in her hometown.

[mlspyl]

Mark / Roger :

 

 

When we bought our apartment last year, we had to pay 3 different taxes based on the purchase cost. However, the combined total of these taxes equalled 1.53% of the purchase price. In addition, there were 4 small fees, approximately 0.3% of the purchase price (this included the realtor's fee).

 

 

In addition when I was in China during the last few weeks, we had to pay one-time taxes on our "house decoration" costs, This is my wife's term for furnishing the new apartment. Remember is China, all you receive when buying a new apartment is :

1. Bare concrete floors and walls. Interior walls are brick/block concrete finished.

2. Plumbing/water(cold water only) pipes.

3. Unfinished : power outlet boxes, electrical switch boxes, light fixtures, and cable TV/LAN boxes.

 

The rest is up to you finish (house decoration) such as:

1. Floors (marble, ceramic tile, wood, etc.)

2. Walls (paint, wood, etc.)

3. Drop down ceilings (if desired), Chinese apartments are 3 meters high, so this is nice.

4. Kitchen: cabinents, stove, etc. (everything)

5. Bathroom: again everything

6. Furniture, air-conditioning, washer, etc.

7. Everything else that I forgot to include above.

 

My wife designed the apartment using AutoCad (yes, the same version we have at my company !!!). She had interior walls torn down, power and electrical boxes moved, plumbing moved, and I had hot water lines installed.

 

In China, it is all manual labor (mostly), so they were chiseling tracks in the concrete floor and up the concrete walls for new water plumbing, electrical outlet box adjustments. All the above conduit and fixtures are fixed when the concrete is poured and if you want if changed (my wife did) then this is what you must do. Of course this added to the cost.

 

The house decoration tax, for our apartment, was approximately 5% of the house decoration cost.

 

 

Yes, after talking with the IRS, I can deduct the mortgage interest on my 1040 because of my ownership in the house and my wife resides there.

 

 

We looked at apartments in Shenzhen, Guangzhou, and Huaihua (Roger, I think this where you are looking ???). We looked at apartment complexes with interior garden/recreation areas and security, in all three cities (there are lower cost apartments in all three cities and more expensive). Average cost per sqaure meter (RMB/m2) excluding "house decorations" (i.e. unfurnished):

Shenzhen::--------6,000 RMB/m2 (730 USD/m2)

Guangzhou::------5,400 RMB/m2 (660 USD/m2)

Huaihua:-----------2,400 RMB/m2 (290 USD/m2) (but no elevator)

 

 

I believe I have the prices right, but I will check this, and if wrong, I will correct the post.

 

 

When I was in China, I watched a number of news pieces on Chinese TV regarding apartment speculation. The government might crack down on this, by mandating a minimum time limit (say at leat one year before you can sell) up to, you must have the apartment paid off before you can sell (most extreme). Who knows what will actually happen ???

 

 

Mark

[lynne]

I hadn't know that you could deduct the morgage interest on a home in China either, that is good to know since we'll probably buy another place. There was so much real estate speculation going on in Xiamen when I was there. I am not suprised that they are going to try to regulate it now. It was just too easy to make money. Homes were going through many owners long before they were even built. My husband and I bought an apartment in Xiamen in 2003, I can't really remember but the exact number but I think it was about $3,900 RMB/m2, we were the second owner of this place and I think the first owner had paid $3,700 RMB/m2 a few months before us. We sold it about 4 months later for about 4,300 RMB/m2. We hadn't planned on selling it so soon, we were going to live in China for a while unitl I was having problems with my pregnancy. We thought we would we both be back in America before the place was completed and we could take care of the decoration and rent it out. I am not sure if we will buy a place in Xiamen again, but I would like to know what apartments in that same building are selling for now. I knew several American who bought apartments in Xiamen for retirement.

 

-Lynne

[rogerluli]

We certainly have gotten a lot of great info on this thread. I realized that we would not be able to claim mortagage interest on our taxes becasue we will not be living in China for another 5 years. Until then we will rent it out.

 

Yes mlspyl my SOs hometown is Huaihua and that is where I have agreed to buy a house. Her father, brother, sister, and son all live there and she has many friends there. One of her childhood friends is a judge, which probably can't hurt, and another is a doctor who speaks English. I looked at population stats the other day and it said the population of Huaihua was 5 million. I can't believe that, there are no tall buildings at all. I would have guessed it at less than 1 million. But your price range sounds right. I did not know all the details about what you actually get when you buy as new house, which is basically the bare walls. We looked at up scale apartments in GZ that were completely finished.

[Dan R]

I've looked at apartments under construction. During the construction phase you have the option of getting it finished or taking a good discount and having the interior done as you want. I like that idea because then I can have all the kitchen and bathroom drains done with S traps on them to reduce odors. Also with cheap labor and materials you can make a really fancy bathroom.

[rogerluli]

I've looked at apartments under construction. During the construction phase you have the option of getting it finished or taking a good discount and having the interior done as you want. I like that idea because then I can have all the kitchen and bathroom drains done with S traps on them to reduce odors. Also with cheap labor and materials you can make a really fancy bathroom.

That sounds like a really good way to go. We took refuge in a bathroom supply mall in Foshan during a thunderstorm and they had the most incredible selection of natural stone tiles of every color, type of stone, etc. And all highly polished so that the clumsy American can kill himself more easily after wifey leaves her usual deluge in the bathroom...

[Dan R]

I've looked at apartments under construction. During the construction phase you have the option of getting it finished or taking a good discount and having the interior done as you want. I like that idea because then I can have all the kitchen and bathroom drains done with S traps on them to reduce odors. Also with cheap labor and materials you can make a really fancy bathroom.

That sounds like a really good way to go. We took refuge in a bathroom supply mall in Foshan during a thunderstorm and they had the most incredible selection of natural stone tiles of every color, type of stone, etc. And all highly polished so that the clumsy American can kill himself more easily after wifey leaves her usual deluge in the bathroom...

Thanks Roger, That hearty laugh I just enjoyed lifted the headache and revitalized me. I only laughed because I thought the same thing when I was in China.

 

I don't know what will happen with our non-draining floors here.

[rogerluli]

I've looked at apartments under construction. During the construction phase you have the option of getting it finished or taking a good discount and having the interior done as you want. I like that idea because then I can have all the kitchen and bathroom drains done with S traps on them to reduce odors. Also with cheap labor and materials you can make a really fancy bathroom.

That sounds like a really good way to go. We took refuge in a bathroom supply mall in Foshan during a thunderstorm and they had the most incredible selection of natural stone tiles of every color, type of stone, etc. And all highly polished so that the clumsy American can kill himself more easily after wifey leaves her usual deluge in the bathroom...

Thanks Roger, That hearty laugh I just enjoyed lifted the headache and revitalized me. I only laughed because I thought the same thing when I was in China.

 

I don't know what will happen with our non-draining floors here.

Who me worry...I have an old house with all wood floors...yes even the bathrooms...

 

Wifey is going to have to adjust...after all I am the boss...

aren't I...

[Dan R]

I've looked at apartments under construction. During the construction phase you have the option of getting it finished or taking a good discount and having the interior done as you want. I like that idea because then I can have all the kitchen and bathroom drains done with S traps on them to reduce odors. Also with cheap labor and materials you can make a really fancy bathroom.

That sounds like a really good way to go. We took refuge in a bathroom supply mall in Foshan during a thunderstorm and they had the most incredible selection of natural stone tiles of every color, type of stone, etc. And all highly polished so that the clumsy American can kill himself more easily after wifey leaves her usual deluge in the bathroom...

Thanks Roger, That hearty laugh I just enjoyed lifted the headache and revitalized me. I only laughed because I thought the same thing when I was in China.

 

I don't know what will happen with our non-draining floors here.

Who me worry...I have an old house with all wood floors...yes even the bathrooms...

 

Wifey is going to have to adjust...after all I am the boss...

aren't I...

That's a good one

 

You're the boss Best one I've heard all day.

[Guest blsqueaky]

Yes, some definate great info. The place that we are looking at is way outside of the city of GZ, and actually they are called condo's. They are already finished, 3 br, 2 bath, sitting on a lake. The purchase price is $50K, and this, if I remember right included the maintenance fees and security. The only thing that I really had to pay extra for was my green fees. Ling will be talking to the sister later this weekend, and she is going to get her brother in law to send me some more info on what I will need to do.

 

As far as the taxes, I can deal with them. It is alot less than getting the property here, and I figured that buying there, and what I will pay, tax and mortgage, it will be about 2/3rds less then here. The other night she mentioned about her mother living there, which is fine with me, but I asked her how her mother would feel with others renting there when we are back in the states. This she is not sure about.

 

Well I can say that our next trip there, late this year, we think, 2-3 days getting ready for the IR-1 interview, then about 3-5 days just looking and talking to many people. This will be so much fun

[skibum]

My wife was reading the Qingdao realty web site and learned the house prices had gone down 8% in the first quarter. Wonder if this is the start of a trend. I would think that prices would be going up there as it will be the site of the sailing Olympics.

[Guest blsqueaky]

My wife was reading the Qingdao realty web site and learned the house prices had gone down 8% in the first quarter.  Wonder if this is the start of a trend.  I would think that prices would be going up there as it will be the site of the sailing Olympics.

Ling's brother in law is looking into this, and he will be sending me some info in the mail soon. He and his father are into real estate. Soon as I receive, I will be posting what I can. I just hope that what he sends me is in English.