Working in China

[sylinchinastill]

At the same time- though the post was somewhat misguided and written like someone who seems like a bit of a pig- I do think it is entirely plausible for all of those things to happen to him- one person could just meet all of the bad experiences that a country has to offer. I lived in Costa Rica as an exchange student after high school- and I knew some people who had the worst families (we stayed with host families) and they would move and end up in worse families- I mean things like extremely sub-standard standards of living- girls being attacked by their host brothers- unimaginable things- and they seemed to always meet the wrong time of people and end up in these bad situations- while other people only ended up in the best houses- with really loving families- and their Spanish improved greatly, etc.- as for me I have ended up having experienced some really great things and some really bad things in China- there is that type of fraud and deceit for money- that has happened to me- that has happened to people I know and it has been reported in the news. There is the huge customs duties and etc., etc.- I once bought a printer in Hong Kong- stupid, stupid idea. I knew some people in China who ended up living outside of the city and living in apartments with the infamous shitter/shower (can I say that word?) and never found tutoring jobs, and the ones they did find ripped them off and refused to pay them and the teachers at their school and the students were racist against them (the people I am thinking of are African-American) and etc., etc.- I have also seen people who had to live outside of the city and didn't know anyone but made great friends with a bunch of people (although some of us suspected them of Chinese mafia affiliations) and made the best out of a bad situation. My point is this- be discerning in the people you associate with and the situations you put yourself in while in China working. If it seems too good to be true it is- if someone is seems too nice- they could have bad intentions- just use your common sense. Only work for English schools that are well-established- it is better to work for a larger company or for a public school than to work in a smaller town- in a smaller school- run by someone you don't know and have no recourse against if something goes wrong. Take care of your visa status- if possible take care of it yourself- you can get a note from your employer and go to the office yourself just as well as they can do it for you. If you have problems seek official help- be it the police or whatever- the most important thing to remember is that there is no-one to sue- no-one will be held accountable for their actions against you- so don't put yourself in situations where these things could occur- I have friends who ran out of a school in Xi'an in the middle of the night because the school wouldn't pay them and wouldn't let them out of their contracts and they had to steal their passports back- don't let anyone who is not official have your passport. I don't agree with all of what that guy said by any means- but I have seen things like that happen- and it's not entirely implausible for it all to happen to the same person.

[lele]

At the same time- though the post was somewhat misguided and written like someone who seems like a bit of a pig- I do think it is entirely plausible for all of those things to happen to him- one person could just meet all of the bad experiences that a country has to offer. I lived in Costa Rica as an exchange student after high school- and I knew some people who had the worst families (we stayed with host families) and they would move and end up in worse families- I mean things like extremely sub-standard standards of living- girls being attacked by their host brothers- unimaginable things- and they seemed to always meet the wrong time of people and end up in these bad situations- while other people only ended up in the best houses- with really loving families- and their Spanish improved greatly, etc.- as for me I have ended up having experienced some really great things and some really bad things in China- there is that type of fraud and deceit for money- that has happened to me- that has happened to people I know and it has been reported in the news. There is the huge customs duties and etc., etc.- I once bought a printer in Hong Kong- stupid, stupid idea. I knew some people in China who ended up living outside of the city and living in apartments with the infamous shitter/shower (can I say that word?) and never found tutoring jobs, and the ones they did find ripped them off and refused to pay them and the teachers at their school and the students were racist against them (the people I am thinking of are African-American) and etc., etc.- I have also seen people who had to live outside of the city and didn't know anyone but made great friends with a bunch of people (although some of us suspected them of Chinese mafia affiliations) and made the best out of a bad situation. My point is this- be discerning in the people you associate with and the situations you put yourself in while in China working. If it seems too good to be true it is- if someone is seems too nice- they could have bad intentions- just use your common sense. Only work for English schools that are well-established- it is better to work for a larger company or for a public school than to work in a smaller town- in a smaller school- run by someone you don't know and have no recourse against if something goes wrong. Take care of your visa status- if possible take care of it yourself- you can get a note from your employer and go to the office yourself just as well as they can do it for you. If you have problems seek official help- be it the police or whatever- the most important thing to remember is that there is no-one to sue- no-one will be held accountable for their actions against you- so don't put yourself in situations where these things could occur- I have friends who ran out of a school in Xi'an in the middle of the night because the school wouldn't pay them and wouldn't let them out of their contracts and they had to steal their passports back- don't let anyone who is not official have your passport. I don't agree with all of what that guy said by any means- but I have seen things like that happen- and it's not entirely implausible for it all to happen to the same person.

What you say is true.

I did not disbelieve that the experiences that were talked about in that gross, bigoted, and prejudical email, were based on reality for that person.

And there were some definite things in it that could be learned from as well, so that people will not fall into similar traps.

However, just because someone says something which could be useful, when it is cloaked as an attack againt all people of a race or ethnicity, I feel that the horror of it and the insult of it far outweighs the good of it. It was not an attack, it was a dehuminazation, and for that reason, I am glad that it was pulled. It was not this person's experience, but instead using experiences as a way of attacking an entire group of people. Lastly, there was no owner of the piece whom we could contact for redress, so I am glad that it is gone!

The way I see it, I do not like censorship, and do not want information to be lost. I do feel that we can learn, even by reading from the most vile of people (like hitler), but it must be done in the most careful of ways, to make sure that we are causing a greater harm to the society around us. It may be ok for reasons of scholarship by people who know what they are doing, but in a forum like this, it really should not be!

IMHO

 

although I am glad that others were able to get something good out of it.

[sylinchinastill]

That's true- but having lived in China myself- the feeling of loneliness you will get from the fact that you won't ever fit in- especially if you are in a smaller city and there aren't many other foreigners there- I can see how that would make you feel a certain way- where maybe you have not before. My husband experiences the same thing here- you can't figure out why your accent is still there- and you get lonely for someone who looks like you do- and bad parts of your personality come out- I would get so mad sometimes if someone stared at me- or rather- if an entire city stared at me everywhere I went- and it happened much more often if I was alone than with my husband (because he would generally tell people not to look) but I would think some terrible things that I will not repeat- that I'm not proud of thinking- but it does happen when you live there- and when you live here- and it takes a really strong person and tons of hard work and adjustment to just 'live.' One thing that he said was very true though- everything was much harder- I have a friend who lived in China for four years and now lives here- and she said that she doesn't like it here- because it's just too 'easy' to live- like the grocery store- like finding food to eat- like going to the bank (in Shanghai you must wait in line for at least an hour) etc.

[Guest enight]

in Shanghai... you definatey have to wait over half hour if you go to a bank which is located on commerical street or on a busy road... but if you walk down the the streets behind these busy roads, you can find a smaller bank easily to get your thing done within 10 minutues.

[Guest enight]

which guy? is he still living in China? give me the name please... I will tell my big brothers there give him 'some color to see see' !

[lele]

which guy? is he still living in China? give me the name please... I will tell my big brothers there give him 'some color to see see' !

Nope. At least what I believe, from the post, is that he was forcibly removed for being in on an illegal visa.

[Guest enight]

I see... too bad... lost the chance to show him some color!

[maiyademama]

First, I just want it to be clear to Michael01950 (and anyone else who read the article in question) that the information contained in the article should by no means be taken as "truth" about life in China. If you want to move to China and work there, you will no doubt want to research other people's experiences to gain a good grasp on what you will be facing. Please keep in mind, everyone's experience is different and you will receive a lot of negative information as well as positive. The only way you will *know* is to move there and experience it first hand.

 

And second, here at the Candle there are many of us whom have lived or currently do live in China. Many of us have good "guanxi" or connections in China and I can't speak for others but I, for one, am more than happy to help with information about moving to China.

 

True, life in China can be difficult (but it doesn't need to be), and it certainly is different from the US, but if you can get an insider's look and approach to accomplishing simple tasks like banking (which is by no means as difficult as some say) and shopping...well, all you need to do is be wise. Like someone said earlier, if it seems too good to be true, it is. Use your common sense and don't get taken for a ride. I know an American who successfully sued for and was paid his lost wages and damages from his employer...there DOES exist legal recourse if it is necessary but most people settle problems out of court. Personally, I never had any problems with employers and not getting paid and I only knew one person that did and he sued. I can't see why a single person living anywhere must have a maid for an apartment...but apparently this need arises. If you have trouble keeping your place clean and you want to hire help, go through an agency...It is very cheap and I never heard complaints about the help that any of my colleagues had hired. They certainly were not engaging in sexual relations with the maids! Of course it helps to learn the lingo, but you can get by without a lick of Chinese...the problem is that you will need to have a local friend or colleague -- someone you can depend on, to help you pay bills, go shopping, get around, send packages, whatever. IMO, Chinese are very warm and willing to help...very hospitable people. You may bump into the overly eager types who are looking to gain visas and will do ANYTHING to help you in the hopes that you will pull some strings Stateside...these folks are easy to pick out as they are way too enthusiastic about helping you.

 

Overall, if you want to move to China, be flexible and go with the flow...its the ones who fight the current and try to change Chinese behavior that end up the least happy. You will be gawked at, "hullo-ed" to, pushed, and shoved. Your olfactory senses will take a beating and the constant back ground noise and thrum of life in China may sometimes drive you insane (especially if you live near a school where they conduct morning exercises each day over a tinny sounding PA that wakes you up at the crack of dawn!) You get used to it (maybe not the smells and pollution) and you cater your life to all the cool things about China...Park-life (chess games, old ladies dancing, kids playing, lovebirds snuggling, taiji and qi gong practice, kite flying, feeding ducks, slow paced walks). 2 HOUR lunches so you can eat AND take a nap. convenient public trans. systems. Cheap DVDS (not that I endorse piracy ) Good food! Exotic travel destinations, Good food! Karaoke! Antique fairs...You get the picture...focus on the positive and roll with the punches

[sylinchinastill]

Well said.

[awch]

Overall, if you want to move to China, be flexible and go with the flow...its the ones who fight the current and try to change Chinese behavior that end up the least happy. You will be gawked at, "hullo-ed" to, pushed, and shoved. Your olfactory senses will take a beating and the constant back ground noise and thrum of life in China may sometimes drive you insane (especially if you live near a school where they conduct morning exercises each day over a tinny sounding PA that wakes you up at the crack of dawn!) You get used to it (maybe not the smells and pollution) and you cater your life to all the cool things about China...Park-life (chess games, old ladies dancing, kids playing, lovebirds snuggling, taiji and qi gong practice, kite flying, feeding ducks, slow paced walks). 2 HOUR lunches so you can eat AND take a nap. convenient public trans. systems. Cheap DVDS (not that I endorse piracy ) Good food! Exotic travel destinations, Good food! Karaoke! Antique fairs...You get the picture...focus on the positive and roll with the punches

hmm... well I still think I'll get "hullo'd" at and pushed and shoved no matter what I do.. it's just that I've learned to push back.

 

What's this 2 hour lunch thing? We get 45 minutes

 

But I've definatly gotten more used to living in China- the things I especially like are the cheapness of everything, the public transport system, learning the language- but with all of those things comes something bad too like not being able to find the ingredients I want to cook with (like chicken broth has totally disappeared from Dalian).

 

Right now I'm ready to go back but I think once I'm back, I'll be missing China.... I've commited now to always having 2 homes.

[Shosetsuin]

I agree amberzhu. If I went back I would miss China.

 

But, in addition to the things already mentioned (good and bad) it is important for those interested in coming to China that it is still a developing country. Being such, it is lacking in certain things that Americans can really take for granted.

 

One of the biggest advantages in coming to China is to step out of normal American perspective and see the world in a different light.

 

I was underprepared for some of the things I have seen here, but now I have a tighter grip on what the world is like outside of smalltown, USA.

 

Has anyone ever travelled to the countryside? As in the way that most Chinese people are living (outside of cities) and the horrible conditions they are faced with? I think that everybody owes it to themselves to see the real China, the China that exists outside of the modernized walls of cities.

 

I promise it will change your perspective on many things. Even better try living with peasants for a short time.

 

nate

[awch]

nate-

i would really love to do that- the problem is my fiance. you know most chinese people from the city are VERY biased against countryside people- he would have a heart attack if i went to live there for a few days.

 

and your point about a developing country is very very true and must never be forgotten. one my friends here lived in japan first for 3 years and he always says the biggest difference is that japan is a developed country and china is not. i never forget that.

[Shosetsuin]

right...

 

My wife would never go for heading out of the city. Before we met I had a few occasions to check it out.

 

I don't understand the biast, but I do understand the desire not to go. It's horrible...and some places downright dangerous. But good for perspective.

 

Especially in places like Gansu or Henan. I recommend extreme caution before travelling to the countryside in those places.

 

nate

[lele]

This is a really interesting point and I can chime in here.

 

My darling's grandparents were forced during the cultural revolution to have one of their children move to the countryside from a large city that they were all living in for their lives. My darling's parents were the ones selected, as they were each in their own families (they did not know each other yet, and yet both were born in the same big city and the same year), because they were the most physically capable of living in the countryside.

 

It was *extremely* hard for them. Even today, her father is still required to stay in the factory job that he was transfered to after his medical problems after his first appointment. The only good thing is that when he is allowed to retire, that they will both be entitled to switch their hukou back to the city (because they were *forced* to leave). My precious already has moved her hukou back to the big city. However, growing up in a small, industrial region, for the first more than 10 and less than 20 years of her life have shaped her.

 

Things are tough there, but when I went to see, things were very interesting. More of history is preserved, if you walk out away from the main streets, you can still see stones and ceramics from the Ming and Song Dynasty just laying around or in use in homes (this is why I will not post where on this website, for fear that people will steal all of the relics!!!). The people are very friendly and seem to care more about their friends and circles, rather than just their local families. And since electricity was only here for about the last 30 years, people have things like solar water heaters on all of their rooftops, which makes the local air pollution shockingly less (although it is bad thanks to the factories). It was here that many people saw their first foreigner when they saw me, and it is tough for her at times, yet it is very relaxing at times too, to know that it is a more supportive and trusting location.

 

The day will be wonderful when the rest of the family can fully move back to the city, but the experience of the more remote location was important for me and has helped my precious to be the wonderful person that she is today. It has really helped to shape her to care less about money and more about people, and has allowed us to forge much of the unique connection that we have.

 

In fact, her story is quite similar to that of my grandparents (and her parents to that of my great grandparents) in terms of how economics, lifestyle, access, education, and other issues played out on them all. Thankfully, she is so smart and so open-minded that in the end, we will build from what has occurred and I know that our future will take the best of the experience.

 

Ok, I can not write much more on this topic, it is tough for me to relate to and makes me very emotional (both happy to see and learn what I have and to know that she and her family have learned much from it, and sad to know that they were forced into this situation a long time ago).

[lele]

right...

 

My wife would never go for heading out of the city.  Before we met I had a few occasions to check it out.

 

I don't understand the biast, but I do understand the desire not to go.  It's horrible...and some places downright dangerous.  But good for perspective.

 

Especially in places like Gansu or Henan.  I recommend extreme caution before travelling to the countryside in those places.

 

nate

Hey! I was in the countryside exploring in Gansu around ZhangYe for a week and it was a beautiful location to go! The scenery was amazing, the people were friendly and the history was fully up and front.

 

However, this is a portion of Gansu which has been Chinese proper for more than 2000 years, and that may make a difference.

 

Nate, when you say Henan, are you sure that you do not mean Hunan? My darling has family in a remote place in Henan and neither she nor I had any problem there in the large cities (Louyang or ZhengZhou) or in the smaller and more remote places. However, in Hunan, I have heard stories (even in ChangSha)...