do you know them REALLY

[who]

Hello,guess WHO,S new

I have beeen having some second thoughts ,married a very special women in china last year,she has a teenage daughter that i love so much,but we have been apart for more than six months and waiting for p3,should be any day now,however,what has been in my mind has nothing to do with my heart.

Lets face it i,m a two time looser to american women ,so i thought I would try based on a friend that married a lady from russia,

The real fact of the matter is that some of us are short on something that the money hungry america women want,in my case its not money ,but in my early 50s,gray,50 pounds over weight,and enjoy the simple things in life,again not because of lack of money,just my desire,

my chinese wife is starting to sound like all the others ,all about money,having houses in multi locations,but the other part of it is that the chinese women all meet and talk and they are always telling each other,not to tell there american men to much,as they might not understand,what is the real differance between the two being chinese or american

I guese I could go on and on but having second thoughts normal,???????

[Dave G.]

Howdy, Who. Welcome to the site. Your first post is a good one.

 

My advice? It's always normal to question the progress of any relationship. Just don't forget the foundation it's built on. Think back on the time when you courted, fell in love, and married. Houses built on strong foundations can weather any storm.

 

The houses and such? Normal! The Chinese are very clever....we should listen to them. No, there way isn't always our way but they do love us and want to make our lives better. Sometimes their way goes counter to what we think (my wife wanted to recently gut my kitchen and put everything in the small pantry....NO WAY!). Learning how to compromise will take you far.

 

Don't be too fast to dismiss the house thing. We bought a new home in Leshan last September. It will be completed this month (brand new) and has already appreciated 7%. Not a bad investment, eh? Keep in mind the Chinese values of caring for family and the capitolistic value of investing. Together, you can't go wrong.

 

Good luck....keep on posting here!

[frank1538]

Hi Who, and welcome to CFL. Just a couple of thoughts and observations. As you can tell from my avatar, I'm no spring chicken either - been there, done that and have the alimony payments to prove it.

 

Many of us have wondered what the motivations are for a woman from China to marry an American. For some, it is love, pure and simple. For others, it is love coupled with an opportunity for a better life. Unfortunately, for others it is colored green, as in card or money only.

 

While I know this will not apply to many Chinese women, I have found that money, aka security, is a very important consideration for a Chinese woman, and Americans seem to represent the top of the heap in this regard. When you're in China, $100 will go a loooong way, and we American don't pinch pennies nearly as well as the Chinese. Unfortunately, because things are so cheap in China, we tend to spend money there differently. What's and extra 10 yuan when it translates to about $1.25? Sometimes this gives the impression that we are filthy rich, and the American TV, ads, movies, and the like all reinforce this.

 

When I was in China, I could have bought two houses. I could afford to buy things that my wife could not, but she really had no concept of how much things really cost in America, and she would comment sometimes that she would like this or that when she came to America, thinking that the US price was the same as the Chinese price. Slowly, she began to understand that just about everything in America is more expensive. Whenever we went to a restaurant or shopping we would compare the Chinese and American costs, and I found out that simply substituting "dollars" for "yuan" was an easy way to attune her to the fact that things were expensive in America.

 

Jingwen has always said that money was not important, but deep down, I know that security and stability are. When she arrived in America and saw for herself how much more expensive things are in the US as compared to China, and any pipe dreams that she had about living the fabricated TV/movie lifestlye went the way of smoke. She now realizes that I could buy two houses in China, but only one house in America.

 

We have a comfortable life here in America, and she has adjusted to the fact that middle class living in the US is still giving her far more than she ever imagined. Fortunately, she still hangs on to her Chinese culture concerning money. Every penney is watched, and every penney is saved. When it's time to spend it, she is still very particular about the cost.

 

Now, as to the women talking. If you want me to know how much money you make, just let my wife and your wife chat for a few minutes. For some reason, my wife and her friends share this information just like you and I would compare prices on a TV purchase. It's not a big deal, just a cultural difference.

 

Jingwen's concept of having money and not having money is like a light switch, it's either on or off. If you have money, this means that you can spend it. But, if you tell her that you don't have the money to buy something at this time, it sends a shriver up her spine and she then thinks we're are destitute. There is no middle ground here.

 

Does your wife know your financial situation and your monthly income/cash flow? Jingwen knows to the penney how much comes in each month and how much is spent. If she said that she wanted to make a major purchase, I would tell her how much it would cost, and she would them determine how long she would have to save to by it (credit cards are still a bit alien to her).

 

It is not uncommon for someone to want more material possessions, and Americans seem to represent the material world better than most. But, with a little education and "on-site" observation, my wife (and maybe yours) has come to understand that life is still good even if we don't have the things that the TV and movies says all Americans have.

[Jeikun]

Lets face it i,m a two time looser to american women ,so i thought I would try based on a friend that married a lady from russia,

The real fact of the matter is that some of us are short on something that the money hungry america women want,in my case its not money ,but in my early 50s,gray,50 pounds over weight,and enjoy the simple things in life,again not because of lack of money,just my desire,

my chinese wife is starting to sound like all the others ,all about money,having houses in multi locations,but the other part of it is that the chinese women all meet and talk and they are always telling each other,not to tell there american men to much,as they might not understand,what is the real differance between the two being chinese or american

 

 

Ok, maybe I'm going to be the odd man out here, but what is wrong with American women? Yes, like all of you I'm marrying a wonderful Chinese girl, and I couldn't be happier wouldn't change it for the world, etc. But more than the fact she's a Chinese girl, she's just the woman I love. I didn't specifically seek any certain Nationality, and certainly wouldn't have based it on a stereotype that as a nationality, they are satisfied with less.

 

Over and over I hear about "money hungry American women" etc. Well, American women are my friends, and my relatives. A couple are my ex girlfriend's too, but it had nothing to do with some kind of cultural character flaw. People are people. Some are bad, some are good, most are some jumble in between. If you're basing your decisions on American women = faithless, greedy, selfish... Chinese women = faithful, selfless, giving... you are likely to be disappointed. It seems more benign, but these kind of broad generalizations are really no better than the ugly ones All jews greedy? All black people lazy? And they are no more true.

 

Look at the woman, not the race.

[sylinchinastill]

Yeah Jeikun! As much as I love reading this bored- every time someone says something about American women ("fat and pasty and money-hungry" comes to mind) I get so frustrated- I guess maybe because I didn't exactly 'select' my fiance but randomly met him I feel the same way as Jeikun- I would never say that American men are fat and hairy and don't work hard and that is why I am happy to be marrying a Chinese- I'm so glad to hear that someone else feels this way. And I am not fat, dammit!

 

But back to the other thing. I think Chinese people are very concerned about money- I find myself telling what things cost and asking how much someone makes to Americans and then I think, 'oops' as they stumble around their words trying to answer my tactless question. But I don't think that's a bad thing- wanting money is not a bad thing. Think about it like this- my fiance- who is 32- grew up at the end of the Cultural Revolution- his grandmother would tell him not to run around and play so he wouldn't eat more food- he remembers exactly how much rice his family had- a time when a rice soup was special food- food you got when you were sick- the rest of the time they ate sorghum rice- meat was scarce- I would say that none of the Americans here- or very few- have ever experienced that- so when he says he wants a nice car- I think, "of course he does." I just think we shouldn't judge- but should take into account where our loved ones are coming from, their backgrounds-

[Trigg]

This has turned into a great discussion.

While I do agree that women are women no matter where they are from, I believe any thinking person will agree that Chinese woman are very different from American women. All of us as humans share many commonalties at birth. However, we manifest what and who we are at least in part from our socialization. I'm sure that most of us see a difference in men and woman who are simply from a different part of the US. We see a difference in rural people and the urban dwellers. I think no one will disagree with that. So it only makes good sense that the Chinese woman who has been raised within a totally different culture and who have learned a totally different value system would not be the same as their American counterparts. I think any thinking person must agree that while their are similarities in all people the influences of ones culture and background in general does make races and peoples different.

 

So, the real question is not IF Chinese women, as a whole, are different from American women, as a whole. The real question to ask oneself is much more complex. Is different better. Given the differences, are Chinese woman better than American women? The obvious answer, at least to me, is YES and NO. It depends on what one looks for in a spouse. For me personally I enjoy some of the cultural differences in the Chinese woman. For some of my friends whom I respect immensely, the American women is what they desire. So different is just what it is--it is simple different-not better, not worse-only different.

 

When we stop equated sameness with equality, we will likely remove most prejudices. American women, Your are all right with me but just not my idea of a lifelong partner. Then again, I think many Chinese men think Chinese women are all right with them but not their idea of a life long partner.

Like I've stated before, where you stand depends largely on where you sit.

[tonado]

Hi Who,

 

I would recommend you spending more time with your wife and her daughter in China if possible. That way you would know if they would make you happy in USA. Since she is your wife, you shouldn't have second thought. It seems like you got married too fast. You should have gone the K1 route.

[otter5535]

I still can't figure out which is the communist country! In one country, the government forces people to wear seatbelts, makes smoking illegal, and buries their people with restrictions and paperwork from an huge, uncaring bureacracy. In the other country, money allows you to do anything and the bureacracy is quick and efficient. Hmmmmmmm............

 

Chinese people have always been capitalistic minded. The communists in charge saw what happened in the USSR and now have a policy of "leave us alone and we'll leave you alone" just so they can stay in power.

 

I think it will take a little time for our Chinese wives to get used to America and the money thing. I try to think of it as when I was a kid in Disney World for the first time. I wanted everything and wanted to do everything. Reality kicked in (along with some stern parenting) but I was still happy even though I wasn't going to get everything I wanted.

 

Money is a typical problem in every relationship. One can only pray that the relationship will work through it.

[Dave G.]

It's not necessarily about American women...it's about how American values clash in relationships. Working hard, going higher, wanting more...all gets in the way of family. Men and women work hard and want to be the best in their professions. The Chinese place family, health, etc., over trival matters.

[yave20b]

I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning what you are doing. After all, you want to make sure YOU marry someone for love and SHE marries you for love. I've been plugged into China for the past 12 years (I've been going there regularly all that time). And I've learned that not all Chinese girls are perfect. Most are good, but some are not. I had been engaged before and spent much time with my ex-fiancee (three trips and almost 2 months together). But then about half way through the fiancee visa processing it came to light through some Chinese and American friends the girl was not being honest with me and only wanted to use me to come here to stay with her sister. I withdrew my application...a process which can be as long as getting the financee visa. My present fiancee is quite open with me about these girls in China looking to use Americans only to get out of China. She works as a part-time translator for an online dating service in China. And she openly tells me of her disgust with many of the girls who are playing Americans as suckers in order to extract money from them or simply to get over to the US quickly and easily. She even has a friend who just came over after marrying an American guy last year who openly tells my fiancee that as soon as she gets her green card she's dumping her husband. And this girl already has a boyfriend on the side while her husband is at work. My fiancee always talks openly with me about these things. And that is why I trust her so much now. The point to all of this is that there are good and bad people everywhere. Even in China the women are not perfect. One must always be aware of the fact that to some women in China, an American is a meal ticket and/or a fast way to immigrate to the US. I think it is important to be up front with your fiancee and talk openly to her about your feelings. If you talk openly enough with her, I think probably you can put your doubts to rest as I have with my fiancee. People in China are always worried about money partly because that is their custom and partly because most of them are struggling to survive. Often their preoccupation with money matters has more to do with their customs than it has to do with you being the rich American. I'm sure your fiancee is one of the many good girls in China. But it is important for you to assure yourself of this before you can really move forward.

[maiyademama]

Hi WHO and welcome aboard. I am pretty new here as well. Definitely go to China and spend more time with your wife and step daughter. It would also be helpful if you learned some Chinese, even if your wife is fluent in English. Some ideas are just difficult to express in a monolingual relationship. I don't think your fears are unfounded. This isn't really a race and sex issue. People are people with all the regular propensities for mistake and misjudgement regardless of sex and race. You married pretty quick without fully examining the situation or understanding the position from which your wife is coming (this includes all of her personal, familial, & cultural experiences that have brought her to consider marriage with you). You basically said that you failed with American women....well, women are women just as people are people, and if you thought you didn't have what it takes to keep a strong relationship with an American woman, then you don't have a chance with any woman. As women, we all have the same basic needs and desires when it comes to love. We want to feel secure, want to be cherished, want to be honored, want to be respected, want to be loved and all the rest....but we also want to give--give all the same things that we so desire for ourselves. I am not sure I speak for every woman, but I know that when a man has confidence and is comfortable with who and what he is, then it is more likely that a woman will sense this confidence and self-assuredness and feel that her mate is worthy of all that she has to give.

 

I also met and married my husband in a very short period of time. I felt the lightning bolt strike and I went with it. Even as much as I love him and I know he loves me, I worry. I have fears that this marriage won't last once he gets to America--and we have a child together. I fear he won't like life in the US and he'll want to return. I worry that he could be like my father (Who is also Chinese) and just leave me as soon as he gets his citizenship. I chalk it up to separation anxiety most of the time (we have been apart for over a year), but you just have to keep your chin up and do what is within your power to protect yourself should things go wrong. Don't despair becaue you are in control of your fate and your future. You have been given lots of good advice from the wonderful people on these boards and I hope that you will stick around and continue to share youy journey with us. Good luck and peace be with you.

 

Tazsa

 

side note:My father was a very patient man. He waited 12 years living a lie and once his citizenship was finalized he took off and left us all behind.

[oregonknl]

Greetings, Who,

 

Lets face it: Distance is a HUGE problem in any relationship!!

 

The cross-cultural aspects pale in comparision with the simple fact: She's there, you're here... (Look at the huge number of "traditional" American couples that break up because of physical seperation --- one person gets a job transfer, for instance...)

 

...... And in our case, the US Gov. makes us twist slowly for so long....

 

I will visit my Fei later this month, and even though it is an expense -- can't really afford at this time -- also can't afford not too!! .... haven't seen her since Feburary...and I miss her very much: "keep our love alive!"

 

Hail Jason and Syl ~! People are people ... Of course there are wonderful American woman, who run the whole spectrum from kind and generous to flat out materialistic....

 

But materialistic?? Isn't that what America is all about? Isn't it much harder to turn AWAY from "stuff" here than to embrace it? ---To have some perspective?

 

So of course, why shouldn't Chinese, who see it from their perspective over there? --- not a true understanding, but perhaps from the amplified understanding of the new China: "to be rich is glorious" ----why not think the streets are paved with gold here in America....?

 

I talk often with Fei about this, and I think she understands... but I will know for sure, only when she gets here...

 

The discussion about materialism to me, should always be one of the FIRST conversations during introductions, not one of the last....

 

We met on the internet, and in my profile, I made it a special point not to mention material things, but rather my interests in the beautiful Pacific NW, and in China, and also did mention that I have Chinese daughters... Which is why, I think, she contacted me in the first place....

 

But to see some of the profiles of other guys ... actually talking about their wealth, and posting pictures of their houses and cars!?..... I mean, come on, what kind of woman (Chinese or otherwise) do you imagine you are going to attract?

 

And for those same men to later claim that "Chinese Women" are all so materialistic? Come on! You got exactly what you advertised for...

 

I like the thread "You know your wife is Chinese..." (which if you go back far enough, you see some were very offended by it --- viewing it as "type-casting"of Chinese women).. But look at the posts -- little personal snippits about domestic behavior, and put together, something emerges of great value, I think.. Because overwhelmingly, these posts are about frugality--- and personal strength, and gaining the same results with much less... Strong, and I believe, generally different in some ways than many American women (and men).

 

These are characteristics forged from a time of great need --- the living memories of the famine years of 1959-61, and shortages for most of the time after that, until the opening to the west ---- as your man described well, Syl .

 

We have never had ANYTHING like that in the enitre history of America --- our experience has shaped for all of us, I think, very different beliefs and behaviors about material things ---and certainly food....which I think most of us would agree that for too many in America, has become a careless after though of expectations --- fast food/comfort food --having none of the significance that the food culture does to the Chinese --- now in full, extended family celebration --- still celebrating the GOOD LUCK of extended plenty....

 

'FREEDOM FROM WANT" the great image of Thanksgiving dinner by Norman Rockwell -- even though painted at the tail end of the depression, says so much about our recent cultural history, so much in direct contrast to China's, until just now..

 

---Kim

[tonado]

Thread should go to the Culture section.

[oregonknl]

Tazsa,

 

Great post from a woman's perspective ~!

 

Your feeling of abandonment by your father comes through loud and clear -- just want to let you know, the guy doesn't have to leave to not be there....

 

My father was always around, but never around.....

 

Realized when I became an adult: I don't know this guy! And never really did...... Although he got points for helping the family financially...

 

--- Kim

[Jeikun]

Tazsa and Syl,

 

You both made my point better than I could.

 

Trigg,

 

I by no means think everyone is the same. And I do agree that common cultural influences make one group different from another in many ways. Steroetypes are created for some reason, like myths there is some basis in fact, very little in some cases, more in others.

But basing an important decision or making a broad judgement based on them is not wise. Turning down someone for a job, offering someone a job, deciding what tenant you will allow to rent from you, deciding who you will marry... etc based on a stereotype is asking for trouble.

Stereotypes will always influence our way of thinking, but more important is knowing an individual. I never said "Wow, American women stink, maybe I should try a Chinese woman." I think given the right circumstances, and meeting the right person, or the wrong person, you'll get the entire range of personality types in both the US and China.

It's funny, because while I don't see it that way.... Jun has the opposite stereotype "Chinese men are selfish, uncaring, care only about working, cheat on their wives, etc etc" I told her the same thing. I know lots of American men who are just as bad. worse. But since she chose me, hey, I won't complain