P4 guangzhou activity...

[Yi_Feng]

I am feeling rather upset right now, as my future is now on hold indefinitely, and at the whim of government workers in GZ who dont seem to care.

 

I am stuck just waiting for as long as it takes, because they dont want to change anything.

 

Since I am going insane, I was thinking, is anyone up for coming to Chhina, going to GZ and having a bit of a protest?

I am in beijing now, and I am willing to go to GZ, but I really cannot do this alone. If any of you other American citizens would be willing or able to go to GZ and meet up and stage a public sit-in or protest of some sort that showed the horrible service that we USA citizens are getting regarding getting family members, wives, fiance's united with us and lives back on track in the USA...it would be better than just sitting around waiting for the dinosaurs to retake the earth.

 

We could even involve the media coverage...

Perhaps I am totally insane and have lost my mind that is not hard to imagine...but I am really feeling so frustrated and powerless, I dont like it ...in fact it is hard to take at this point.

In fact, it is unreasonable to expect that someone can just wait for a year to be married and return home, move forward with their lives.

 

If we get a few people who are able to do this, if we can get a group, I would consider it...anyone? perhaps if a bunch of us all show up together at their "information session" it will be informative for them.

 

what do you think...maybe I am just insane...highly likely.

[SeaSame]

No..you are not insane at all, what you requested here was the very right as a human who should have human right to reunion with their family members without letting an unnecessary system wasted the taxpayer's time and money. It is not right to wait for one year, some even two years to be able to marry your fiancee or reunion your wife/husband.

 

I am not refering to any personae on any organization or anyone serves in any office, but to the whole system that emotionally, spiritually tortured thousands of couples per year, it is not based on the basic human right of a citizen,but based on a cruel system that cares not anyone's existence of dignity, and emotional wholeness.

 

We should inquire the government to practice "Sunshine Law", and fighting the terrorists isn't an excuse to deprive the citizens' basic liberty.

 

I would love to post the United Nation's "Human Right's for All" here, and we should understand what is the basic right as human to exist in this world.

 

A protest isn't unnecessary, but the basic right of a human.

 

SeaSame

[SeaSame]

All Human Rights for All

 

Adopted and proclaimed by General Assembly resolution 217 A (III) of 10 December 1948

 

 

 

On December 10, 1948 the General Assembly of the United Nations adopted and proclaimed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights the full text of which appears in the following pages. Following this historic act the Assembly called upon all Member countries to publicize the text of the Declaration and "to cause it to be disseminated, displayed, read and expounded principally in schools and other educational institutions, without distinction based on the political status of countries or territories."

PREAMBLE

Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

 

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

 

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,

 

Whereas it is essential to promote the development of friendly relations between nations,

 

Whereas the peoples of the United Nations have in the Charter reaffirmed their faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women and have determined to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom,

 

Whereas Member States have pledged themselves to achieve, in co-operation with the United Nations, the promotion of universal respect for and observance of human rights and fundamental freedoms,

 

Whereas a common understanding of these rights and freedoms is of the greatest importance for the full realization of this pledge,

 

Now, Therefore THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY proclaims THIS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS as a common standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their jurisdiction.

 

Article 1.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

 

Article 2.

Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.

 

Article 3.

Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person.

 

Article 4.

No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms.

 

Article 5.

No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

 

Article 6.

Everyone has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.

 

Article 7.

All are equal before the law and are entitled without any discrimination to equal protection of the law. All are entitled to equal protection against any discrimination in violation of this Declaration and against any incitement to such discrimination.

 

Article 8.

Everyone has the right to an effective remedy by the competent national tribunals for acts violating the fundamental rights granted him by the constitution or by law.

 

Article 9.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

 

Article 10.

Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, in the determination of his rights and obligations and of any criminal charge against him.

 

Article 11.

(1) Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

 

(2) No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

 

Article 12.

No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

 

Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.

 

(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

 

Article 14.

(1) Everyone has the right to seek and to enjoy in other countries asylum from persecution.

 

(2) This right may not be invoked in the case of prosecutions genuinely arising from non-political crimes or from acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

 

Article 15.

(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.

 

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

 

Article 16.

(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.

 

(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

 

(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

 

Article 17.

(1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.

 

(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

 

Article 18.

Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.

 

Article 19.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

 

Article 20.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.

 

(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

 

Article 21.

(1) Everyone has the right to take part in the government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.

 

(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

 

(3) The will of the people shall be the basis of the authority of government; this will shall be expressed in periodic and genuine elections which shall be by universal and equal suffrage and shall be held by secret vote or by equivalent free voting procedures.

 

Article 22.

Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

 

Article 23.

(1) Everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to just and favourable conditions of work and to protection against unemployment.

 

(2) Everyone, without any discrimination, has the right to equal pay for equal work.

 

(3) Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.

 

(4) Everyone has the right to form and to join trade unions for the protection of his interests.

 

Article 24.

Everyone has the right to rest and leisure, including reasonable limitation of working hours and periodic holidays with pay.

 

Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

 

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

 

Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

 

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

 

(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

 

Article 27.

(1) Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits.

 

(2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or artistic production of which he is the author.

 

Article 28.

Everyone is entitled to a social and international order in which the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration can be fully realized.

 

Article 29.

(1) Everyone has duties to the community in which alone the free and full development of his personality is possible.

 

(2) In the exercise of his rights and freedoms, everyone shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and of meeting the just requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society.

 

(3) These rights and freedoms may in no case be exercised contrary to the purposes and principles of the United Nations.

 

Article 30.

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.

 

from: www.un.org

[SeaSame]

I am not posting this because of any resentment to any office, but rather tried to clear out the mystery of the situation, and prefer the others who are after us would not suffer for the same painful process over a year or two.

 

Fighting the terrorists is the essential task of the government, and I completely agree with that, but that is not an excuse for deprive all from liberty by emotionally tortured the US citizens and their family members. They should not be treated this way.

 

And as an honest person, we should speak out what we truly think, not begging for mercy, but asking for righteousness.

 

Seasame.

[Jim - Portland, USA]

I think it's a great idea to protest GZ! Although I think it's a lost cause trying to bill the protest as a human-rights violation or something like that. As I've posted here before ... there are PLENTY PLENTY real actual human-rights violations happening all around the world as we speak. Real attrocities involving gruesome and unspeakable crimes committed against people in many countries around the world. I think complaining of a lonely heart just degrades the value of the term "human-rights violation". I don't think the term should be used as a catch-all phrase to describe anything that makes one not so happy.

 

But if the protest were simply and honestly directed squarely at the slow service provided by the consulate, then I think that would definitely bring attention to our situation.

 

Americans protesting and picketing an American consulate ... it has never happened before and it is sure to get worldwide attention!!!

 

Everyone is used to foreigners protesting American installations ... but a group of American citizens doing so?? It will surely make headlines all over the globe (if enough people were there). I wouldn't be surprised to see it on the NBC Nightly News or whatever.

 

But the hard part is getting enough people to show up. It's nearly impossible. I know I can't. I'm reserving my next trip to China for my honey's interview, and I can only be there for 3 days max. A lot of American citizens on this forum are in the same boat, if they are going to GZ at all. The odds that all our interviews fall on the same day are maybe one in a billion?

 

But it's still a good idea, in theory.

[MoonCarolCafe]

Guys (Gals)-- I really really dig China. Nice place. Some great people. The nicest woman on the planet happens to live in GZ. But... a place that openly tolerates protests it aint.

 

However-- Americans protesting... in front of the American consulate (Just ignore the nice men in green and khaki carrying the assualt rifles) would probably cause a bit of consternation. Similar to going to PyongYang, whipping out a short dagger and yelling "Die you imperialist pig" while you repeatedly stab yourself in the chest. Bound to get you some attention. Might not be the best idea. Possible that the Party will place a news blackout on the event and deport you for being an inscruitable Occidental. Certain to cause a bit of embarassment to the Consulate General. Not a way to win friends and influence people. If I participated it would certainly lead to interesting pillow talk between the wife and I. Muttered words such as "you" and "stupid" and "idiot", in mandarin. Replies of "sorry" and "never again" and "shopping tomorrow?" in english.

 

Work with the consulate. Not against them. The staff may be angels. The staff may be rat bastards. Eeither way the staff are the sole gaurdians of the visa stamps.

[Jim - Portland, USA]

MoonCarol, man you are sooo funny!!!

 

I always enjoy reading your posts, you have such a great way to put things. And you really seem to give good advice too.

 

And you may be right about such a protest proving to be ineffectual, possibly deterimental.

 

But ... let's just pretend for kicks and giggles that such a protest were to occur. For some reason I don't think the Chinese authorities would interfere with such an event. I think they would get a kick out of a bunch of Americans protesting an American consulate office. Of course they wouldn't let things get out of hand, but we're talking about a "peaceful" protest.

 

Let's not forget what happened not all that long ago when the US military "accidently" bombed the Chinese embassy in ... Serbia? I forget exactly where that happened, but ask any Chinese and I'm sure they can tell you

 

Anyway, after that happened, I remember that the Chinese authorities organized and promoted citizen protests and demonstrations against US offices all throughout China. I know this for sure because my own honey was in high school at that time and she told me she was forced to go out into the street to join an organized protest rally and was told to hold a banner which said some not so nice things about America. Kind of ironic, eh?

 

So, the Chinese authorities certainly don't allow protests when directed against the Chinese government, but due to the fact that China seems to be extra mad at the US now for so many other reasons, me thinks they'd sit back for awhile with a smile on their face while they watched any such protest take its natural progession.

[SeaSame]

Jim, you perceive this one year emotional torture merely as a "lonely heart" issue? No wonder those bureaucrats do not considered these cases as a serious problem that they brought to their people.....~!

 

It is violating human right, be it big or small things. Be it Physical or Emotional.

 

But you are right, of cause protesting of inefficiency is better than protesting violating human right. However, people should know the essence behind such inefficiency.

 

And since no one would take real action into protesting, so I would not waste my time here for empty talk.

 

by the way, a protest of cause should be peaceful one. No one should use any unpeaceful method in their protests.

[jkobman]

The Chinese Public Security Bureau (did I say that right?) is something I always enjoy when I am over there. The cops in Nanjing and Shanghai wear blue uniforms, so it's same old for us Americans. But, the cops in Hefei and Zhengzhou still wear the old Army green and carry Chinon AK47's. I told my friend (as we ran up the stairs in the Bank of China trying to get to the Foreign Exchange window before the afternoon "take a rest" time) that the cops were going to shoot him in the butt. Cops in banks with automatic weapons are definitely a deterent to bank robbers. BUT, back to a protest in GZ - dealing with the cops (which I have been told are attached to the Chinese Army) would definitely be a deterent to protesting at the US Consulate!

[keelec]

This was discussed a few months ago. The conclusion was:

 

Protesting on Chinese Soil = BAD IDEA.

 

Getting inside Consulate to a "safe" place for a protest is very impratical with all of the 9/11 stuff.

 

----- CK -----

[se_lang]

I still think a BBQ outside GZ would be fun, we could have "BBQ Snail" to symbolize how slow they have become or liver to show how distasteful their actions are.

[hypoclear]

I think this is an American tradition and while quoting the human rights article may be a bit over done I still think it points right to the issue.

 

One, the fact that as Americans we are concerned about rights, whether they be human or individual rights as spelled out in the constitution. Protesting or voicing our concerns to the government in mass is also a right. Which again underlines the concept of a governing body that is responsive to the needs and desires of the people.

 

Think about this in the long view and as an educational thing as well. Most of our loved ones will go on to become citizens one day and these concepts are at the heart and soul of our country and perhaps are the reasons, if not the foundation on which our success and power in the world is built.

 

Now it becomes an issue of what is most prudent for each person..."Don't rock the boat and god forbid, you even hint at incompetently!" and what is just and fair for the people? I would think that even in this time of terrorists?? there may be a case on a larger, social wise base for non responsiveness and too many secrets on their part. Our government is and must be held accountable for it's action and its offices and officials. Anything less and we are moving backwards into some of what we have experienced while living/visiting outside of the USA.

 

So in the end do we protest.. nope! I am afraid, very afraid.. I am diminished and lay prostrate at the feet of an official government office. I along with Wilbur Milquetoast shall live on another day to.. endure the existence of one who does not speak, another part of the scenery of a bland and tasteless society.

 

Mark and Bea

[SeaSame]

The visa is not merely for a "Forign Citizen", it is for the family member of an American Citizen. The husband or wife/fiancee of an american citizen, is part of their life, and they have very right to know why such inefficiency behind this slow process.

 

Their human right is to request for their government to practice Sunshine Law, which is against any Black Hole practice of straining one's authority in the government or in office.

 

Protesting in China soil does nothing No-Good to enhance a government hurrying into better efficiency in their work since every worker of a government should either pledge the allegiance to the country or withdraw from their position, and the country is People, not an object of building, not merely land of territory. And any practice of a government should reflect the Will of People, not the Power of the government.

 

The only No-Good is this protesting action will humiliate US Government and Humiliate the Image of a democratic nation under the international society. For this of cause would catch the attention of the whole world.

 

To bear in mind, that everything has its good sides or vice versa, people would not endure with patient forever, the exposing abuse Vedio tapes is good example to remind as such Secretive Practice, that to test the patience of your people, it is not a good attempt. There will be an inevitable one day, the Black Holes would be exposed to the public, and this system will be on trial if there is still righteousness in the world. At that time, the humiliation is be bigger, deeper than the protest in China Soil now.

[SeaSame]

Se Lang, BBQ Snail is fun and great idea...

[oregonknl]

Wow ~!

 

Its been many years since I have seen a situation so "ripe" for revolution ! Ha, ha just kidding!!! Sort of....

 

Yi Feng: "I am feeling rather upset right now, as my future is now on hold indefinately, and at the whim of government workers in GZ who don't seem to care."

 

No S--- Sherlock?

 

Is it a human rights issue?

 

Both Jim and Don make good points --- I do tend to agree with Jim --- come on!

 

Your life (our lives) are slipping away without the people we love the most, but who cares?

 

If push come to shove, we can all do what MoonCafe, Mark and Bea have done to be united... I particularly like the letter that Mark wrote on the subject (for the NY Times?) though -- He made a great case that he is an exile from America, BECAUSE of America's imigration policy...

 

BUT ... given the really horrible things going on in the world, (including some of the things that the US State Dept. needs to deal with on a daily basis) --on the face of it--as a political issue--its not that big of a deal..

 

I disagree somewhat with Don: "How does taking a year to get a visa for a foreign citizen trample on YOUR human rights?" Not human rights, pehaps, rights as an American?

 

...then SeaSame responds: "The visa is not merely for a "foreign citizen" it is for the family member of an AMERICAN citizen" ---

 

Great response-- and a response, I believe, that was in fact, the intent of Congress which enacted the "War Bride" laws after WW 2....

 

Naturally, the State Dept. views the foreign citizen as the "recipient" of the benefits as a matter of law, because they know that if it actually were to be US citizen oriented --- ALL HELL WOULD BREAK LOSE -- international families in the US would be created at a much faster rate ~!... keep the lid on! ..... just not as tightly as the Chinese Exclusion Act of the 1880's...

 

Would such a protest be productive? I disagee with those who belive the the Chinese government would quash such an event .... I believe they would be delighted!

 

Yes, Jeff, there would be many guys in green (probably PLA) and blue -- but they would be there to look tough and to enforce nonviolence against Consulate employees as they came and went --- all be show! ... that China was enforcing the rule of law during this embarrasing turn of events between US citizens and their government...

 

Would it be reported in China's Press ? FRONT PAGE!

 

Interesting, Jim about your fiance, rallied to protest after the Killing of the employees in the "misdirected"? smart bomb that hit the Chinese embassy in Belgrade Yugoslavia ---

 

Many Americans don't realize that the people killed were reporters of Xinhua -- the official press (voice) of China. They were well known and liked in the Xinhua compound in Beijing -- where they were normally stationed -- and in my opinion, much of the retribution staged against US facilities the (Consulate at GZ was hit hard) --- were a direct result of that...

 

Would it make the US (national) press? I think so, but I'm not sure the coverage -- at this time -- would be favorable to our plight...

 

---Kim