Teaching in China

[owenkrout]

Some of you asked, so I will do some of these in series until they tell me to quit wasting disk space. There is more to this. This is the first 1000 words. This will be on your final test! LOL

 

Teaching in China

 

 

This is the first of a series of cultural dissertations that I am writing. The content of this and future pieces are general and tend to be my personal opinion rather than researched. I apologize if any of our Chinese members take any offence to any of my opinions and I am always most willing to read their rebuttals and consider that I may be in error.

 

I have had the opportunity to teach both college and 9th grade students while in China. My own experience, except for some minor substitute work, is with teaching in college in the United States. Therefore, I base my opinions and impressions of the American secondary students on my having had four children of my own in the American secondary schools.

 

While the Chinese educational system is not highly dissimilar in content and method from the American system through secondary school, there is a major divergence in method that occurs in the higher education system.

 

“Learning” and how it is accomplished in China

 

The concept of what constitutes useful learning is one of the primary differences between the American and the Chinese educational system. The American system tends to emphasize the ability to put information into practical use and creativity. The Chinese system tends to emphasize the importance of committing to memory the one “right” answer and conformity.

 

The Chinese student throughout their time in school are expect to be able to memorize the contents of their school books and to be able to repeat that information exactly. This is not dissimilar from the approach utilized in American primary schools when it is necessary for students to memorize certain basic information such as the alphabet, vocabulary, grammar, math rules and methods. The “three Rs” are important to beginning students anywhere in the world, with rote memorization tending to be the tried and proven methods utilized. The Chinese system of writing with complex characters tends to encourage this concept of learning. A new unknown character gives the learner no indication as to its pronunciation and therefore requires that the student rote memorize thousands of characters and their pronunciation. Sometimes the meaning or thought that a character represents is hinted at when one has studied the Chinese system of writing, but not always. In addition the strong cultural inclination towards continuity and the maintenance of cultural norms also contributes to the use of rote memorization.

 

The difference is that in America, as the student advances through school, they are slowly expected to be able to do more application of what they learn and less of the rote memorization. The Chinese student continues to be encouraged to strictly memorize the body of knowledge. This is most evident within the higher education system with the divergence in approach to learning widening as the students advance further in their education.

 

American college level students are commonly expected to be able to apply the knowledge within their fields of study to practical, real world type situations and problems. There is a continually lessening emphasis upon the memorization of material as the student progresses in their studies. It is commonly considered more important that a student know where to find data and formulas and what to do with the data, method or theory than that they merely are able to recall the data. The Chinese system still continues to emphasis the importance of rote learning. After 20+ years of memorization, the average Chinese student can put the best American students to shame in their ability to recall, word for word, exactly what the text says about any subject. The typical American student, on the other hand, would have great difficulty quoting the text in any great detail. This divergence in method is partially traditional and cultural. The Chinese student on the other hand is often completely taken aback when asked to apply their knowledge to a real world situation or when asked a question such as, “What do you think?” They will normally respond by quoting something from the text.

 

The Chinese, even yet today, do tend to be very tradition bound. It is one of the many dichotomies that strike you about China when you are living here. The struggle between the desire to have modernization and change and the strong impulse to maintain the traditional ways. Foreign teachers are constantly badgered to make suggestions for ways to make improvements and to help educate the Chinese staff in “modern” methods. “Modern” here always means Western. When any change is actually suggested the normal response is, “That is not possible. It is not the way we do it here.” Although completely copying the western model of education is not necessarily an effective approach, it is generally recognized that China’s current system lags behind and does need change. The problem is that the inertia opposing change, just because it is change, is even stronger here than it is in American higher education. In American higher education accomplishing any effective change can be a Herculean task, in China it is almost impossible.

 

Due to the emphasis on rote memorization, the average Chinese student has become the master of cramming for an examination. In fact the educational institutions and the teachers encourage it. Students are typically given as much as two weeks, or even more, of review material and are encouraged to spend many long hours “studying”. That study consists of laboriously reading and re-reading and re-reading the text in order to exactly and fully memorize it. The students know that most and often all of their test questions are going to be multiple choice and that the question and correct answer will be taken from the text word for word.

[Q&Q]

I highly recommend that we transfer this post to a certain educational department in China.

 

I don't know how long you've been teaching in China, I'm impressed that you know Chinese education system and Chinese students so well. Yes, I agree that here we tend to emphasize more on the content in the textbooks, we teach them the information, but we don't or do little to teach them how and where to get the information and how to put it into practical use.

 

But I'm glad our education authorities have finally noticed how important it is to emphasize more on the abilities to put information into practical use and to create. You're right, the inertia is so strong, it takes time to change, just thinking we have 5000y history, the tradition can't be collapsed in a night and there's surely something worthy of keeping down...But i'm glad that we've taken the first step, we're having an educational reform...

 

Q&Q

[owenkrout]

Glad that you confirm my impressions. I have been teaching here since August 2001 and stayed over the summer. My hope is that this series on my impressions as an American in China might help both the Americans and the Chinese members of this site understand each other a little better.

[owenkrout]

Ah, you have a point about certain fields needing rote memorization. I had to memorize a great deal of info, formulas etc in order to be able to pass the certification tests for manufacturing engineer and in order to work in the machine shops. However, the point is that it doesn't stop at that in American higher ed. To quote QQ's reply, "Yes, I agree that here we tend to emphasize more on the content in the textbooks, we teach them the information, but we don't or do little to teach them how and where to get the information and how to put it into practical use. " Of great importance in my classes and other instructors that I knew teaching Engineering Technology, was that point of where to get the information and most importantly, how to use it in a practical application.

 

QQ is correct, things are slowly changing here, but you will find that the Chinese students will tend to excell in theoretical areas or in areas like pure math. Americans, on the other hand, tend to do better in the "hands-on" type of studies and work. The medical field is one where a great deal of memorization is critical. It is very important that that surgeon know exactly where everything is and the exact proper terminology to communicate well with his team. The Chinese system has prepared the student for this type of learning extremely well. The difference comes in the application of that knowledge to the real world. When it comes to what to do when the situation doesn't exactly match what the text had to say, the American student has generally been better prepared to adapt and improvise.

 

Don't forget that those Chinese students who are always at the top of their graduate class in the US are the best of the best. Generally, only the very best and very brightest manage to make it to the US for a graduate education.

 

Also, this is all very general in nature and does not necessarily apply to any one particular person. China produces some extremely brilliant and talented people. In fact, with a population of about 1.4 billion, they have a huge pool of talent to draw from.

 

You have a very good point about the liberal arts content. That is another point that tends to set American education apart. We aim to produce a well rounded and widely educated person rather than just a person who is focused only on their field. The result pays off. For instance the mechanical engineer that I know who developed an interest in other areas while in college and returned later to obtain a medical degree. Now he is a Prosthetic Engineer.

[Guest bob61]

I found, at least in undergraduate studies, that rote memorization was as important here in the US, as your students do there in China. Especially in subjects such as Organic Chemistry, Genetics, Physics, Anatomy, Physiology, Pathology, and math.

Thanks Owen! Couple of points on Owen's and Jim's observations below. Owen, it sounds like you have the first rough draft of an interesting article for the Chronicle. Perhaps discussion on this forum will help.

 

1) Jim, how old is your observation? (This is a statemet, not a question begging an answer - don't answer!) In the US and around the world, education is changing *very* quickly. I went to a conference in Beijing at the end of October and found that the rest of the world is even farther ahead on the philosophical and structural changes that are happening in education. (This actually even includes the Chinese that I met, albeit human factors researchers who are working on issues of machine-assisted learning.)

 

Owen, how regional is your observation? I wonder if some of the bigger schools throughout the country are closer to the "cutting edge" of these changes than other schools?

 

2) Back to Jim's comments: In many disciplines, there is necessarily going to be some rote learning. Many areas of study have specific "terms of art" that must be used in order to communicate meaninffully on a subject. How can one possibly learn anatomy without knowing the names of all of the spare parts? How can the pre-med student ever grow up to be a surgeon without being able to commit the names of these spare parts to memory?

 

So back to Owen's comments: I wonder if your observations on the culture of how one is "supposed" to learn has affected the kinds of courses that are being taught. I've had contact with Chinese and Russian professors who couldn't figure out how to teach Western marketing as these countries begin to discover Western business practice.

 

In disciplines outside of, say, medicine or law or physics or chemistry, we don't have quite so many "terms of art" or laws (read "mathematical formulas") to learn before we can discuss the issues of the subject. It is in these other disciplines that we have been finding that people learn better by using in context rather than by memorizing. For example, in teaching business, we have been using the case method for decades. There are some famous business schools - a snobby one in Boston is a good example -- that never got business school accreditation because they taught in this manner. But they didn't care because their students were ending up as CEOs of big companies. The rest of us changed to use that teaching model, and even the accrediting body changed to accept this method of teaching.

 

My point is that there is one teaching/learning method that is appropriate for pre-med or pre-law kinds of courses, but there is another method that is more appropriate for business strategy kinds of courses. The KINDS of subject areas that have historically been emphasized in China perhaps also somewhat dictate the teaching methods. Unfortunately, the methods used to teach traditional science subjects are completely inappropriate when teaching strategy courses.

 

(Perhaps this is why an American MBA is currently worth so much -- we've been using these methods longer.)

 

 

3) Now, let's go beyond just teaching something like business strategy and think about teaching something like personal selling. This now relates a bit to Owen's post: They don't teach many business courses in China, and "Western" courses such as sales management and personal selling are completely alien to them.

 

I come up with multiple choice exams just to satisfy the old guard, but it is tough to make these for a course such as personal selling. I teach my students how to swim as an individual and how to swim as part of a team, but the real test is when they get kicked into real water. No amount of memorization will keep them from drowning. When they must present a real sales proposal to a real business client, they aren't going to make it through if they only know a list of key words and definitions.

 

So in many of my courses, my students aren't even using textbook cases -- they are doing real consulting for real clients. I am nothing more than a mentor or team leader. I set the example, and they model their behaviors after me. (OK, here's the term of art: this is called "vicarious learning," and it is a keyword that was indeed on the multiple choice exams in my consumer psychology and personal selling courses this semester.)

 

This past semester, my consumer psychology students wrote advertising copy for a real client and did an atmospherics assessment for a real store. My marketing principles students did an environmental analysis for a real store. My sales students proposed strategies for obtaining the business of a conglomerate for our client who runs a carpet cleaning business. My graduate services marketing students "blueprinted" the counseling operations of a local family shelter to identify potential fail points in the service process. Absolutely none of the skills that are required to conduct the research, conduct analyses, formulate strategies, write persuasive reports, make persuasive presentations, or work effectively as team members can be learned through the methods to which Owen's Chinese students have been exposed.

 

Two cents that might encourage Owen to put his interesting and valuable observations in a more permanent and visible place like the Chronicle.

[Guest bob61]

Would you do me a favor and teach the present administration some consequential thinking or the art of playing chess?   >Jim

Jim,

 

I missed that term of art, "consequential thinking" in whatever class it was taught. And I never learned to play chess because I was an overachiever who was afraid of looking stupid. If you don't play the game, you will never look stupid. (I suspect that this might be some of the cultural underpinning of Owen's observations.) So sorry, can't help! An aditional problem with theaching the present administration is that some students don't easily learn. Oops, might that be interpreted as a political statement?

 

Loks like I'm not the only one who is home alone on Christmas day with nothing to do but surf these forums! But at least I called Yu: three hours ago it was my Christmas morning and still her Christmas evening.

[Guest bbridges51]

What an impressive discussion. Owen's experience in China gives us a perspective, confirmed by my beautiful QQ, that demonstrates one of the grand differences between educational systems. Both their and our system is largely top down, so changes come ever so slowly.

 

We are fortunate to have an installed research base to gauge new movements and to try them on for size. While our system was more rote when i was growing up, the 70's and beyond have produced quite a few reform movements. The current, standard's based, movement which swept California several years ago was not an inside job though. It came from the public and politicians who kept comparing our test scores with those countries who tend to weed out students before entering high school. china is just such an example. Test them in 8th grade and if they don't make the cut, put them in a trade school.

 

Branded, although students still may matriculate to college from that system as well.

 

My point is that change, when the system is so top heavy and dominated by a single paradigm, is quite difficult unless there is some groundswell of attention.

 

Owen spoke so well of it in earlier posts when he said that there often doesn't seem to be any organization to their educational beast. Manage by crisis.

 

Brian

[Ron]

Speaking briefly of chess...how many of you have learned Wei Chi or as the Japanese say "GO." As a war game, in my humble opinion, it can't be beat. Some say you can learn all that is important in life at the GO board.

[Guest bob61]

The way things are going, the next time I go to China, I am going to tell everyone I'm Canadian, ey?

Jim, sounds like you are starting to catch a bit of a northern Michigan accent, by golly there, eh?

 

My first professor job was at a little place in the Pennsylvania hills where everyone has one of only three last names (states were all laying people off - I was lucky to be employed). I let out my first class with, "See y'alls tomorrow." They broke out in laughter. I learned to greet the class with a more local-friendly, "Yo! How'syuz doin'tuhdayuh? Yooz're doin' real gooduh? Dat's sumkinda weather, wuddaya tink, nowutumsayin'?" (Sorta like pin yin -- I can't write the appropriate tones, but least put a second tone on the end of every sentence gruntment.)

 

Just when I thought I was starting to blend into the local culture, I got called on the carpet because I didn't cancel my classes for the week of the town fair. Then I got called on the carpet again a few weeks later because I didn't cancel my classes for the first week of hunting season and had to give the same exams all over again the following week. Then I got in trouble again because some guy had missed seven weeks in the middle of the semester, exams and all, and I flunked him: it wasn't his fault that his car wouldn't start nor was it his fault that he had never *told* me why he had never bothered to show up for anything more than the beginning and end of the course and never attempted to make up the missed exams and assignments. Then some kid's estranged dad made a complaint because the mom had come to see me about her kid, and now the dad was pissed because he was paying for it and I therefore wasn't supposed to be talking to the mom and was supposed to have let the poor kid flunk out of college to teach him a lesson (never mind save the dad a few bucks in the process.) I got out of that place as fast as I could run.

 

As for which culture has the less mature students -- it might depend somewhat on the local culture in both countries. I am now at my fourth school in ten years, and I can say that each school been very different with regard to the culture of the students and with regard to the culture of the administration. I am finally very happy with both the students and the administration where I am right now. Average age=32. Absolutely no rote learning skills - they have done terribly on exams that I have used successfully with younger students elsewhere -- but I wil put their qualitative analysis and presentation skills against any students, anywhere, anytime.

 

I'm curious to see how you react to this, Owen. There is probably a mixture of local culture, but also a national culture that causes some the learning issues on both sides of the crick. Any thoughts?

[Joseph-1]

Im not any example of a teacher,however. Based on my own observations of Chinese students I have found the following.

1. Chinese students regard western teachers to be of little use to them in

upgrading their education.

2. If presented with the above data,a chinese student will be very polite

go to the head master and report that the teacher is not very good.The

head master will compile all complaints and fire the teacher outright.

3. Foreign male teachers have a reputaion for being skirt chasers. Most are.

4. Most chinese students I have met seldom if ever,read or utilize a text

book,much less memorize the contents.

[Joseph-1]

You can always send the kids to Prep School to learn the 3 R's........

 

    http://www.markfiore.com/animation/camp.html

I Like I Like.

[sysy]

Owen,

 

Great observation. I hope you can put all together and publish it somewhere, as a byproduct of this otherwise sad saga of visa delays.

 

As to your assertion of the Chinese way of “learning”, I beg to differ. It is true that the Chinese educational system emphasis the role of rote memorization, especially in the linguist area, but it is also true that the Chinese language itself is partly to blame, since there is simply no way to intuitively memorize a particular word by association. The traditional Chinese education almost entirely put its emphasis in literature; therefore rote memorization naturally gained its place in Chinese education.

 

That being said, the positive effects should also be praised. The Chinese educational system is highly influenced by the way Soviet Union implemented it for the past century. The Soviet scientific system emphasizes the rigorous rules of mathematics, in which every rule is derived from the very few basic theoretical foundations, much like Einstein’s dream of explaining the entire Universe (DOS excluded) in a simple formula. The textbooks, many are thick and cryptic, are also based on the same philosophy. Universities teaches science in such a way no American University can force their student to do. The lack of materials for experimentation also contributes to the way the instructor relying more on the textbook, than on real world examples. The minus side, of course, is it reinforces the role of rote memorization, when the material being taught is not fully understood by the student. The plus side, the student does not have to learn it again in graduate school if he comes to the US. A typical Chinese college student spends far more time on study than his US counterpart.

 

But that does not mean the US students spend all their time at parties. The more flexible and practical attitude toward learning gives American students a tremendous edge in creativity. Even though most American students don’t do very well in exams, as compared to students from China, they do very well later in their careers, because, after all, what is more interesting is the future, not the past.

[Joseph-1]

You can always send the kids to Prep School to learn the 3 R's........

 

    http://www.markfiore.com/animation/camp.html

Untuc lebon louton loben. Rock Of Ages -Def Leopard-

[owenkrout]

A fine bunch of responses, I must say. Much more erudite than I expected to get from a forum on immigration. Your comments are helping me to clarify my own thoughts.

 

In an attempt to keep this at a basicly informational level and to keep it at a reasonable length for this forum, I necessarily had to edit heavily. Prehaps it served one purpose that I always attempt when teaching and that was to provoke thought and discussion.

 

I actually agree with most of your observations. They are generally expounding on the points that I edited to reduce the length. Some of this I intended to talk about in a later piece.

 

Again my real point is to help us all realize that our new spouses come from a very different culture and that their will necessarily be points on which our ways of thinking diverge. In the case of my wife and me, that has been a positive point. We treasure each others opinions and consider each others different cultural biases.

[owenkrout]

My first professor job was at a little place in the Pennsylvania hills where everyone has one of only three last names (states were all laying people off - I was lucky to be employed). I let out my first class with, "See y'alls tomorrow." They broke out in laughter. ....... Then I got called on the carpet again a few weeks later because I didn't cancel my classes for the first week of hunting season ........ I am finally very happy with both the students and the administration where I am right now. Average age=32. Absolutely no rote learning skills - they have done terribly on exams that I have used successfully with younger students elsewhere -- but I wil put their qualitative analysis and presentation skills against any students, anywhere, anytime.

Sounds like north east PA. Definate NY accent there. I grew up in the mountains in south central PA.

 

You definately broke the rules on not dismissing class for deer season. Most places it is an official holiday. This is viewed with an almost religious fervor in PA.

 

The proper term in the western half of PA is not y'all, but rather yuns.

 

Your example is exactly my point. The Chinese admire the Americans for their qualitive analysis skills (I was avoiding any terminology like that in view of an audience who are not all familiar with it), and the Americans admire the Chinese for their remarkable recall of fact.