Documents for Children for 10-month Stay in PRC

[kdavid3]

Hello All,

 

I've been lucky enough to be awarded a ten-month fellowship to support my PhD research in the PRC from June '17 through March '18. Unfortunately, it appears that the (multiple entry) visa I receive will require that I leave and re-enter the country every sixty days.

 

My children are American citizens (with passports, etc.). My wife is Chinese. I'm wondering what type of document I can get for my boys to avoid them also having to leave the country every sixty days during our ten-month stay.

 

It'll be enough hassle, financial and personal, for me to leave every so often. I'd really like to avoid having to take the boys each time as well.

 

What are my options?

 

Thanks!

[Robert S.]

There are some experts here that will have the serious info. Congrats on your fellowship.

[dnoblett]

Sounds like you should look into getting residency permits.

 

Id your spouse a US citizen or green card holder? If she is green card, if she intends on naturaizing and becoming a US citizen, the tine away from the states will affect when she can naturalize.

[Randy W]

Ask your PSB what they can do for you. A new visa from them would be cheaper than the trips.

[Randy W]

Ask your PSB what they can do for you. A new visa from them would be cheaper than the trips.

 

 

I would expect that the PSB Entry and Exit bureau could sell you a NEW visa with a one year validity, and no length of stay limitation (no border runs needed), or, at the very least, that they could extend your existing length of stay to 120 days.

 

A Q2 "family reunion" visa, purchased from the consulate in the U.S., would allow up to a 180 day stay (extendable at the PSB), and be good for up to 10 years.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Randy W (see edit history)

[newacct]

If your children were born in China, or were born outside of China and your wife did not have foreign permanent residence at the time the children were born, then they are Chinese citizens according to Chinese law, and you should apply for Chinese Travel Documents for them, not Chinese visas.

[Randy W]

If your children were born in China, or were born outside of China and your wife did not have foreign permanent residence at the time the children were born, then they are Chinese citizens according to Chinese law, and you should apply for Chinese Travel Documents for them, not Chinese visas.

 

 

You will need to learn to READ Chinese law IN CHINESE. Then learn to communicate in Mandarin so that you can convince the people at the Consulate, and also the Chinese Foreign Ministry that your interpretation of their law is correct.

[newacct]

 

If your children were born in China, or were born outside of China and your wife did not have foreign permanent residence at the time the children were born, then they are Chinese citizens according to Chinese law, and you should apply for Chinese Travel Documents for them, not Chinese visas.

 

 

You will need to learn to READ Chinese law IN CHINESE. Then learn to communicate in Mandarin so that you can convince the people at the Consulate, and also the Chinese Foreign Ministry that your interpretation of their law is correct.

 

You don't need to "convince" anyone. The consulates and Foreign Ministry already do it this way. Just "read" their websites (and yes, you need to read in Chinese).

Edited September 30, 2016 by newacct (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Decisions are made AT the consulate AFTER applications are submitted. Again, though, we have NOT heard of an AMERICAN citizen being required to enter China on a travel document.

 

They are applying for a VISA - NOT a travel document.

[Beachey]

 

Ask your PSB what they can do for you. A new visa from them would be cheaper than the trips.

 

 

I would expect that the PSB Entry and Exit bureau could sell you a NEW visa with a one year validity, and no length of stay limitation (no border runs needed), or, at the very least, that they could extend your existing length of stay to 120 days.

 

A Q2 "family reunion" visa, purchased from the consulate in the U.S., would allow up to a 180 day stay (extendable at the PSB), and be good for up to 10 years.

 

Appears a Q1 Visa might be the best option, though it appears you then need to go to the PSB as Randy indicates.

 

http://losangeles.china-consulate.org/eng/visa/chinavisa/t907679.htm

[Randy W]

 

 

Ask your PSB what they can do for you. A new visa from them would be cheaper than the trips.

 

 

I would expect that the PSB Entry and Exit bureau could sell you a NEW visa with a one year validity, and no length of stay limitation (no border runs needed), or, at the very least, that they could extend your existing length of stay to 120 days.

 

A Q2 "family reunion" visa, purchased from the consulate in the U.S., would allow up to a 180 day stay (extendable at the PSB), and be good for up to 10 years.

 

Appears a Q1 Visa might be the best option, though it appears you then need to go to the PSB as Randy indicates.

 

http://losangeles.china-consulate.org/eng/visa/chinavisa/t907679.htm

 

 

Q1 is a single-use visa. It allows 30 days after entry to purchase a residence permit from the PSB. The residence permit has no length of stay limitation and is good for one year and multiple entries.

 

Q2 is good for 10 years, and allows up to a 180 day length of stay and multiple entries, which may be extended at the PSB.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Randy W (see edit history)

[kdavid3]

Hi, everyone. Thanks for all of the feedback. I've included my responses (and more questions) below.

 

Is your spouse a US citizen or green card holder? If she is green card, if she intends on naturaizing and becoming a US citizen, the tine away from the states will affect when she can naturalize.

 

 

No, she's a permanent resident. We haven't been in a rush to look into citizenship, but may consider it sooner rather than later for reasons listed below. If we decide that she'll leave the US (for 10 months) as a permanent resident, does she need any special paperwork?

 

Ask your PSB what they can do for you. A new visa from them would be cheaper than the trips.

 

 

 

Great idea. Can you please clarify what you mean by "your PSB"? Will any PSB suffice, or must we return to the PSB in Harbin, where her hukou is from? We don't plan on returning to Harbin and would like to avoid any unnecessary trips. The bureaucracy to get my kids exit documents was a nightmare. (Long story short: one lady in charge, corrupt, wouldn't entertain processing any paperwork without a bribe. This was back in 2014.)

 

A Q2 "family reunion" visa, purchased from the consulate in the U.S., would allow up to a 180 day stay (extendable at the PSB), and be good for up to 10 years.

 

 

These are purchased at the US consulate in the PRC? Does it matter what visa one enters in? For example, can I enter on a research visa and then get one of these?

 

 

If your children were born in China, or were born outside of China and your wife did not have foreign permanent residence at the time the children were born, then they are Chinese citizens according to Chinese law, and you should apply for Chinese Travel Documents for them, not Chinese visas.

 

 

This is what I'm afraid of. Both were born in China before my wife was a permanent resident. Questions:

 

1. Is there *anyway* I can get them in and out as Americans with their US passport? I do NOT want to have to go through the hassle of returning to Harbin to get them exit documents again.

 

2. If they *must* be treated as Chinese citizens, what are my options? Can I deal with a PSB in Beijing, where this type of situation is more common? Friends dealing with this situation in Beijing have been successful with the very straightforward bureaucracy there.

 

3. If my wife becomes a US citizen before we leave, does that disqualify the children as Chinese citizens? Both of my boys have US passports, etc.

 

 

Lastly, communication in Mandarin isn't a problem. I lived in Harbin for eight years and am doing a PhD in modern Chinese history. The problem is the bureaucracy and corruption we faced when leaving the country in 2014. Had it not been for extensive guanxi and bribes, I'm afraid I may not have gotten them out of the country.

 

Thanks again for all your help. As I've done for my wife's immigration paperwork, I'll keep copious notes on this process and create a "guide" once finished to post here for posterity.

[Randy W]

Hi, everyone. Thanks for all of the feedback. I've included my responses (and more questions) below.

 

Quote: Is your spouse a US citizen or green card holder? If she is green card, if she intends on naturaizing and becoming a US citizen, the tine away from the states will affect when she can naturalize.

 

 

No, she's a permanent resident. We haven't been in a rush to look into citizenship, but may consider it sooner rather than later for reasons listed below. If we decide that she'll leave the US (for 10 months) as a permanent resident, does she need any special paperwork?

 

An i-131 Advance Parole document would help establish her intent to return to the U.S. Stays of longer than six months may be questioned on her return.

 

Ask your PSB what they can do for you. A new visa from them would be cheaper than the trips.

 

 

 

Great idea. Can you please clarify what you mean by "your PSB"? Will any PSB suffice, or must we return to the PSB in Harbin, where her hukou is from? We don't plan on returning to Harbin and would like to avoid any unnecessary trips. The bureaucracy to get my kids exit documents was a nightmare. (Long story short: one lady in charge, corrupt, wouldn't entertain processing any paperwork without a bribe. This was back in 2014.)

You will need to register where you are staying. Ask at the PSB Entry and Exit Bureau, but I expect that the one where you are staying will be able to help.

 

A Q2 "family reunion" visa, purchased from the consulate in the U.S., would allow up to a 180 day stay (extendable at the PSB), and be good for up to 10 years.

 

 

These are purchased at the US consulate in the PRC?

No, they are purchased at the Chinese consulate in the U.S.

 

Does it matter what visa one enters in?

Yes

 

For example, can I enter on a research visa and then get one of these?

Check with whoever is coordinating your program in the U.S., but I expect you will need the research visa. The Q2 may be more useful for your children, but you MIGHT be able to purchase one in addition to your research visa.

 

 

If your children were born in China, or were born outside of China and your wife did not have foreign permanent residence at the time the children were born, then they are Chinese citizens according to Chinese law, and you should apply for Chinese Travel Documents for them, not Chinese visas.

 

 

This is what I'm afraid of. Both were born in China before my wife was a permanent resident. Questions:

 

1. Is there *anyway* I can get them in and out as Americans with their US passport? I do NOT want to have to go through the hassle of returning to Harbin to get them exit documents again.

 

Again, we have NOT heard of ANY American citizen being required to purchase a travel document to enter China - DO NOT ask for travel documents. Ask for visas. Purchasing a travel document could keep that can of worms open with the Chinese authorities. The Chinese consulate in the U.S. will tell you which they are eligible for.

 

2. If they *must* be treated as Chinese citizens, what are my options? Can I deal with a PSB in Beijing, where this type of situation is more common? Friends dealing with this situation in Beijing have been successful with the very straightforward bureaucracy there.

 

The worst case is that you will need to renounce their Chinese citizenship. This can take several months to a year.

 

3. If my wife becomes a US citizen before we leave, does that disqualify the children as Chinese citizens? Both of my boys have US passports, etc.

 

No. See # 2 above. But once they have ENTERED China using their American passports, you will know that they are out of that loop.

 

Lastly, communication in Mandarin isn't a problem. I lived in Harbin for eight years and am doing a PhD in modern Chinese history. The problem is the bureaucracy and corruption we faced when leaving the country in 2014. Had it not been for extensive guanxi and bribes, I'm afraid I may not have gotten them out of the country.

 

Thanks again for all your help. As I've done for my wife's immigration paperwork, I'll keep copious notes on this process and create a "guide" once finished to post here for posterity.

 

 

My advice about bribes is to BE VERY CAREFUL. They are nature's way of announcing that you are a foreigner with a lot of money, and that this is what you think about how their laws work. The American consulates in China can help with any issues you have leaving China.

[kdavid3]

Thanks, Randy. We'll try to get the boys visas (not travel documents). I'll update on this when I have something to share.

 

Thanks again to everyone!

[Randy W]

According to C-Milk here, part of the process of getting the exit visa from China includes renouncing the baby's Chinese citizenship (one of the forms you sign when getting the exit visa).

 

 

 

In any event, once she has exited China and re-entered with her American passport and visa, her American citizenship will have been fully recognized.

 

BE SURE to show the exit visa when applying for her first Chinese visa in her American passport - they will see that she was born in China.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Randy W (see edit history)