Randy W Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 We had been having an intermittent power outage for some time (every week or month or so) where the main breaker would go out with no apparent cause, except turning on a light or something else. To reset it, I would have to turn ONE of the smaller breakers off first - a different one each time, and I never knew which, except by trial and error. We finally got the building manager to come up and take a look. He pointed out that the main breaker (an Andeli DZ47LE-63) was hot (temperature) and was probably the cause. A replacement breaker was only ¥60, but he suggested buying a better quality. So we bought this one at ¥210, including installation. The guy installed it while the incoming wire was still hot (electrically). The main breaker is a residual current breaker (what we call GFCI - ground fault circuit interrupter). This one is rated at 30 milli-amps for 0.1 sec - the typical American GFCI outlet will detect a leakage of only 4 - 5 milli-amps. The C ratings on each breaker are the current rating - i.e., a C63 is a 63 amp breaker, C32 is 32 amps, etc. The RED oval indicates the incoming wiring - red is hot (220V), blue is neutral (return), and green/yellow is ground (yes, it is connected to a ground down in the basement). The inside wires are red for 220V, blue or green for neutral, and yellow for ground. The YELLOW and BLUE ovals are ground and neutral strips, respectively. The red and green (hot and neutral) come out of the main breaker at the red arrow. The red wires are looped back to the individual circuit breakers, and simply cascaded from one to the next by a single wire. Each conduit coming out of the bottom of the panel carries a hot (red) wire, a blue (neutral) wire, and a yellow wire (ground). The metal strip you see bolted to the wall behind the breakers is simply there to mount the breakers on - it does not conduct anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilton747 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 We had been having an intermittent power outage for some time (every week or month or so) where the main breaker would go out with no apparent cause, except turning on a light or something else. To reset it, I would have to turn ONE of the smaller breakers off first - a different one each time, and I never knew which, except by trial and error. We finally got the building manager to come up and take a look. He pointed out that the main breaker (an Andeli DZ47LE-63) was hot (temperature) and was probably the cause. A replacement breaker was only ¥60, but he suggested buying a better quality. So we bought this one at ¥210, including installation. The guy installed it while the incoming wire was still hot (electrically). The main breaker is a residual current breaker (what we call GFCI - ground fault circuit interrupter). This one is rated at 30 milli-amps for 0.1 sec - the typical American GFCI outlet will detect a leakage of only 4 - 5 milli-amps. The C ratings on each breaker are the current rating - i.e., a C63 is a 63 amp breaker, C32 is 32 amps, etc. The RED oval indicates the incoming wiring - red is hot (220V), blue is neutral (return), and green/yellow is ground (yes, it is connected to a ground down in the basement). The inside wires are red for 220V, blue or green for neutral, and yellow for ground. The YELLOW and BLUE ovals are ground and neutral strips, respectively. The red and green (hot and neutral) come out of the main breaker at the red arrow. The red wires are looped back to the individual circuit breakers, and simply cascaded from one to the next by a single wire. Each conduit coming out of the bottom of the panel carries a hot (red) wire, a blue (neutral) wire, and a yellow wire (ground). The metal strip you see bolted to the wall behind the breakers is simply there to mount the breakers on - it does not conduct anything.I guess you could call it a Chinese buss bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amberjack1234 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 We had been having an intermittent power outage for some time (every week or month or so) where the main breaker would go out with no apparent cause, except turning on a light or something else. To reset it, I would have to turn ONE of the smaller breakers off first - a different one each time, and I never knew which, except by trial and error. We finally got the building manager to come up and take a look. He pointed out that the main breaker (an Andeli DZ47LE-63) was hot (temperature) and was probably the cause. A replacement breaker was only ¥60, but he suggested buying a better quality. So we bought this one at ¥210, including installation. The guy installed it while the incoming wire was still hot (electrically). The main breaker is a residual current breaker (what we call GFCI - ground fault circuit interrupter). This one is rated at 30 milli-amps for 0.1 sec - the typical American GFCI outlet will detect a leakage of only 4 - 5 milli-amps. The C ratings on each breaker are the current rating - i.e., a C63 is a 63 amp breaker, C32 is 32 amps, etc. The RED oval indicates the incoming wiring - red is hot (220V), blue is neutral (return), and green/yellow is ground (yes, it is connected to a ground down in the basement). The inside wires are red for 220V, blue or green for neutral, and yellow for ground. The YELLOW and BLUE ovals are ground and neutral strips, respectively. The red and green (hot and neutral) come out of the main breaker at the red arrow. The red wires are looped back to the individual circuit breakers, and simply cascaded from one to the next by a single wire. Each conduit coming out of the bottom of the panel carries a hot (red) wire, a blue (neutral) wire, and a yellow wire (ground). The metal strip you see bolted to the wall behind the breakers is simply there to mount the breakers on - it does not conduct anything.I guess you could call it a Chinese buss bar. I made a small comment but it has disappeared. This is the darnedest thing that I have ever seen. I am not an expert but I use to work for a licensed electrician for 2 years a long time ago. I guess this is obvious correct way to do electrical wiring in China with 220V and it would work here in the US but not very well. The last that I remember from putting in a new load center in my mothers old house the service wires were OOO in size for a 200 amp service. That last double breaker on the right has to get it's electricity coming through all the rest of the breakers the way it looks to me. So if to many circuits controlled by several of the other breakers are in use won't that reduce the electricity that the ones on down to the end towards that double breaker gets. As the electricity has to go through each breaker to get there. The size of the wire is MUCH smaller gauge than the wire that we use here in the US for just 115V. That concerns me somewhat but it is China and I am sure that they know what they are doing. Where does the 220V wire get it's electricity from? In other words how much of a run is it in feet to the power source coming into the building? That includes the neutral wire as well as the ground wire. When I was in China last the in-laws were having trouble with their electricity too. They could only use one, two or three circuits at a time or things would start to popping off. Depending which circuits they were using they could only use two at a time. I fixed a few of their electrical problems but I stayed out of the load center. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amberjack1234 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) We had been having an intermittent power outage for some time (every week or month or so) where the main breaker would go out with no apparent cause, except turning on a light or something else. To reset it, I would have to turn ONE of the smaller breakers off first - a different one each time, and I never knew which, except by trial and error. We finally got the building manager to come up and take a look. He pointed out that the main breaker (an Andeli DZ47LE-63) was hot (temperature) and was probably the cause. A replacement breaker was only ¥60, but he suggested buying a better quality. So we bought this one at ¥210, including installation. The guy installed it while the incoming wire was still hot (electrically). The main breaker is a residual current breaker (what we call GFCI - ground fault circuit interrupter). This one is rated at 30 milli-amps for 0.1 sec - the typical American GFCI outlet will detect a leakage of only 4 - 5 milli-amps. The C ratings on each breaker are the current rating - i.e., a C63 is a 63 amp breaker, C32 is 32 amps, etc. The RED oval indicates the incoming wiring - red is hot (220V), blue is neutral (return), and green/yellow is ground (yes, it is connected to a ground down in the basement). The inside wires are red for 220V, blue or green for neutral, and yellow for ground. The YELLOW and BLUE ovals are ground and neutral strips, respectively. The red and green (hot and neutral) come out of the main breaker at the red arrow. The red wires are looped back to the individual circuit breakers, and simply cascaded from one to the next by a single wire. Each conduit coming out of the bottom of the panel carries a hot (red) wire, a blue (neutral) wire, and a yellow wire (ground). The metal strip you see bolted to the wall behind the breakers is simply there to mount the breakers on - it does not conduct anything.I guess you could call it a Chinese buss bar. I made a small comment but it has disappeared. This is the darnedest thing that I have ever seen. I am not an expert but I use to work for a licensed electrician for 2 years a long time ago. I guess this is obvious correct way to do electrical wiring in China with 220V and it would work here in the US but not very well. The last that I remember from putting in a new load center in my mothers old house the service wires were OOO in size for a 200 amp service. That last double breaker on the right has to get it's electricity coming through all the rest of the breakers the way it looks to me. So if to many circuits controlled by several of the other breakers are in use won't that reduce the electricity that the ones on down to the end towards that double breaker gets. As the electricity has to go through each breaker to get there. The size of the wire is MUCH smaller gauge than the wire that we use here in the US for just 115V. That concerns me somewhat but it is China and I am sure that they know what they are doing. Where does the 220V wire get it's electricity from? In other words how much of a run is it in feet to the power source coming into the building? That includes the neutral wire as well as the ground wire. When I was in China last the in-laws were having trouble with their electricity too. They could only use one, two or three circuits at a time or things would start to popping off. Depending which circuits they were using they could only use two at a time. I fixed a few of their electrical problems but I stayed out of the load center. Larry Sorry Randy I guess I am confused with the two post and am posting in both. The darn thing is wired in Series and not Parallel so the electricity has to go through each breaker and if the first breaker has a load on it and the second breaker has a load on it and the third breaker has a load on it the the electricity is getting mighty thin down at the end of the circuit and would make thing kinda hot as they are not getting enough electricity. Then like your guy said if there is a cheap or bad breaker in the line there will be a problem. That is about a simple as I can put it. Larry Edit to add: Randy maybe you ought to invest in a VOA yourself and do some checking when things go wrong. I have to add that it is the most disorganized load center that I have ever seen in my life. Just having pride in your work I guess. An inspector here where I live would never pass anything like that. Edited August 31, 2014 by amberjack1234 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy W Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 We had been having an intermittent power outage for some time (every week or month or so) where the main breaker would go out with no apparent cause, except turning on a light or something else. To reset it, I would have to turn ONE of the smaller breakers off first - a different one each time, and I never knew which, except by trial and error. We finally got the building manager to come up and take a look. He pointed out that the main breaker (an Andeli DZ47LE-63) was hot (temperature) and was probably the cause. A replacement breaker was only ¥60, but he suggested buying a better quality. So we bought this one at ¥210, including installation. The guy installed it while the incoming wire was still hot (electrically). The main breaker is a residual current breaker (what we call GFCI - ground fault circuit interrupter). This one is rated at 30 milli-amps for 0.1 sec - the typical American GFCI outlet will detect a leakage of only 4 - 5 milli-amps. The C ratings on each breaker are the current rating - i.e., a C63 is a 63 amp breaker, C32 is 32 amps, etc. The RED oval indicates the incoming wiring - red is hot (220V), blue is neutral (return), and green/yellow is ground (yes, it is connected to a ground down in the basement). The inside wires are red for 220V, blue or green for neutral, and yellow for ground. The YELLOW and BLUE ovals are ground and neutral strips, respectively. The red and green (hot and neutral) come out of the main breaker at the red arrow. The red wires are looped back to the individual circuit breakers, and simply cascaded from one to the next by a single wire. Each conduit coming out of the bottom of the panel carries a hot (red) wire, a blue (neutral) wire, and a yellow wire (ground). The metal strip you see bolted to the wall behind the breakers is simply there to mount the breakers on - it does not conduct anything.I guess you could call it a Chinese buss bar. I made a small comment but it has disappeared. This is the darnedest thing that I have ever seen. I am not an expert but I use to work for a licensed electrician for 2 years a long time ago. I guess this is obvious correct way to do electrical wiring in China with 220V and it would work here in the US but not very well. The last that I remember from putting in a new load center in my mothers old house the service wires were OOO in size for a 200 amp service. That last double breaker on the right has to get it's electricity coming through all the rest of the breakers the way it looks to me. So if to many circuits controlled by several of the other breakers are in use won't that reduce the electricity that the ones on down to the end towards that double breaker gets. As the electricity has to go through each breaker to get there. The size of the wire is MUCH smaller gauge than the wire that we use here in the US for just 115V. That concerns me somewhat but it is China and I am sure that they know what they are doing. Where does the 220V wire get it's electricity from? In other words how much of a run is it in feet to the power source coming into the building? That includes the neutral wire as well as the ground wire. When I was in China last the in-laws were having trouble with their electricity too. They could only use one, two or three circuits at a time or things would start to popping off. Depending which circuits they were using they could only use two at a time. I fixed a few of their electrical problems but I stayed out of the load center. Larry Sorry Randy I guess I am confused with the two post and am posting in both. The darn thing is wired in Series and not Parallel so the electricity has to go through each breaker and if the first breaker has a load on it and the second breaker has a load on it and the third breaker has a load on it the the electricity is getting mighty thin down at the end of the circuit and would make thing kinda hot as they are not getting enough electricity. Then like your guy said if there is a cheap or bad breaker in the line there will be a problem. That is about a simple as I can put it. Larry Edit to add: Randy maybe you ought to invest in a VOA yourself and do some checking when things go wrong. Not quite there, Larry. Notice the feed from each breaker to the next is at the top (incoming terminal). Electricity for the last breaker in the line comes through each of the loops on top, but not through each breaker. They ARE parallel, and not serial, except that EVERYTHING goes through the main breaker (on the left) first. The electricity going through each breaker comes out at the bottom terminal, and connects to one circuit only. The incoming wires are at the upper left (red circle). The advantage to a 220V circuit is that it only needs to support half of the current of a 110V circuit. This, we have a (63 amps times 220V) 13.86 kilowatts service. An equivalent 13.86 kilowatt service for 110 volts would have to carry twice the current, at 126 amps. Now that we've replaced the main breaker, I think what we have is adequate - at least there don't appear to be any signs of overloading anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy W Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 This is the path it follows to get to the last breaker. I could turn off all breakers except for the two big ones and still have juice in that circuit. - each of the breakers is idependent, except for the main breaker. That end breaker on the right looks like it services two circuits. Unfortunately, they didn't bother to mark which breakers services which circuits, but we haven't had any trouble with individual circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amberjack1234 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Randy I enlarged it and took another look and see what you mean. It is in parallel. As long as you are not having any more trouble I wouldn't worry about it. I do have a couple of questions for myself thought. 1. What is the black single C63 breaker for? 2. what is the double 400V C63 breaker for? 3. Your main breaker is a C63 also? I'll read your answer tomorrow. I'm going to bed now. Good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy W Posted August 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 Randy I enlarged it and took another look and see what you mean. It is in parallel. As long as you are not having any more trouble I wouldn't worry about it. I do have a couple of questions for myself thought. 1. What is the black single C63 breaker for? 2. what is the double 400V C63 breaker for? 3. Your main breaker is a C63 also? I'll read your answer tomorrow. I'm going to bed now. Good night. Good night, Larry. (Wow! You're up late!) The 400V rating is on the single pole breakers (last one is single pole, double throw), so I doubt it's significant for my purposes (although I'm sure it's standard issue). The 63 amp rating is right up there with an American 126 amp service, in terms of power. 1. The one black 63 amp breaker may be for my office (or possibly for the one floor standing A/C that we have) - I don't remember throwing any breakers, so it may just have been installed that way for the floor standing A/c. The A/C are on different (larger) sockets that the regular plugs won't plug into. 2. The single pole, double throw breaker may have been a carry-over from the builders, who had a single breaker to run all their tools off of, as I remember. 3. Yes - 63 amps is the largest available. That should be more than adequate for our humble little abode. Jiaying complains at me when our electric bill hits $150USD. I'm not sure that it's wise having a 63 amp main breaker protecting 63 amp individual breakers, but as long as the wiring can carry the 63 amps, I'm expect what we have will work just fine, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilton747 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 That last breaker on the right is actually a double pole single throw. Those are commonly used to have 2 circuits mechanically tied together so that if one trips then the other will too. It must be important for those two circuits to be on or off at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsap seui Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) That last breaker on the right is actually a double pole single throw. Those are commonly used to have 2 circuits mechanically tied together so that if one trips then the other will too. It must be important for those two circuits to be on or off at the same time. Amen, cuzin' Chawls....they (double bar breakers) are used in America for heavier appliances like stove/ovens, dryers, A/C units, hot water heaters, wall mounted or baseboard mounted electric heaters....the list goes on. In China you may not see as many of them as we have in a typical 200amp box in America as they have a single 220 bussbar instead of two 110 bussbars like we do. As well, their panel boxes are smaller than ours because of that fact. That one in Randy's box "may" be used for his A/C...but who knows? They do anything in Chinartucky...LOL In America your hot wire is the black one (sometimes a red one when you run something like say a #12/3 wire to make two 20amp circuits), your neutral or return wire is white, and the ground is green. Another tidbit....when you see wire sold as #12/3 or #12/2, they are only counting the hot and neutral wires....the ground isn't counted. Edited August 31, 2014 by tsap seui (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amberjack1234 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) Thanks guys this has been a real less for me. I thought that Charles knew a lot about this thing and I knew that Ronny did and if we said enough you guys would chime in. You see how smart I am. I did know that about the wire ratings. I don't like to work with 12-2 and 10-2 . I guess I'm to lazy. I've got to get out and wire the lights, receptacles and the overhead door in my new garage but something more important keeps coming up and puts me behind. I am about 2 months behind now. I did not know about the extra double pole breaker at the end on the right. I was assuming it was for the A/C unit. It all makes sense but it looks strange with no buss bar down the middle supplying the incoming electrical power. Yeah Ronny I have made a 220V circuit with a piece of 10-2 in a pinch by making the black wire hot and the neutral wire hot and use the ground as the neutral but I don't like to do that and of course here in our county it won't pass code. Larry Edited August 31, 2014 by amberjack1234 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilton747 Posted August 31, 2014 Report Share Posted August 31, 2014 That last breaker on the right is actually a double pole single throw. Those are commonly used to have 2 circuits mechanically tied together so that if one trips then the other will too. It must be important for those two circuits to be on or off at the same time. Amen, cuzin' Chawls....they (double bar breakers) are used in America for heavier appliances like stove/ovens, dryers, A/C units, hot water heaters, wall mounted or baseboard mounted electric heaters....the list goes on. In China you may not see as many of them as we have in a typical 200amp box in America as they have a single 220 bussbar instead of two 110 bussbars like we do. As well, their panel boxes are smaller than ours because of that fact. That one in Randy's box "may" be used for his A/C...but who knows? They do anything in Chinartucky...LOL In America your hot wire is the black one (sometimes a red one when you run something like say a #12/3 wire to make two 20amp circuits), your neutral or return wire is white, and the ground is green. Another tidbit....when you see wire sold as #12/3 or #12/2, they are only counting the hot and neutral wires....the ground isn't counted. Ya nose sumthin cuzin being as "They do anything in Chinartucky" iz the plane truff, i wuud havta get me an AC clamp meter and make shore everything is guud. No playin round wiff dis stuff!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy W Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 That last breaker on the right is actually a double pole single throw. Those are commonly used to have 2 circuits mechanically tied together so that if one trips then the other will too. It must be important for those two circuits to be on or off at the same time. Yes - thank you. Somehow, though, I tend to think that that double breaker was just left over from the finishing crew and tossed in as is (notice the goop all over it). It feeds into two different conduit pipes (two entirely different circuits). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chilton747 Posted September 1, 2014 Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 That last breaker on the right is actually a double pole single throw. Those are commonly used to have 2 circuits mechanically tied together so that if one trips then the other will too. It must be important for those two circuits to be on or off at the same time. Yes - thank you. Somehow, though, I tend to think that that double breaker was just left over from the finishing crew and tossed in as is (notice the goop all over it). It feeds into two different conduit pipes (two entirely different circuits). jest unhookum and see what don't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy W Posted September 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2014 That last breaker on the right is actually a double pole single throw. Those are commonly used to have 2 circuits mechanically tied together so that if one trips then the other will too. It must be important for those two circuits to be on or off at the same time. Yes - thank you. Somehow, though, I tend to think that that double breaker was just left over from the finishing crew and tossed in as is (notice the goop all over it). It feeds into two different conduit pipes (two entirely different circuits). jest unhookum and see what don't work. One day if I ever have a reason to. Notice the little baggie full of labels (lower right) for the breakers that they didn't bother with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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