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The Odyssey - Democracy in Hong Kong


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Randy, thanks for keeping this thread going. Of course, it is very sad and won't end well: it is inevitable that HK will become absorbed in every way back into mainland. Maybe the long period of transition is like slowly pulling the band-aid off.

 

As the last post refers to, the oath debacle backfired on the two (and the Youngspiration party, who were no match for the machine) and seems to have provided an excuse to go after 15 more displeasing legislators. Would really like to know what is the end game for localists and separatists. There must be a savvy way to make use of the last 31 years of relative freedoms such that a permanent state of relative freedom has to continue. I don't think kow-towing and boot licking is the way to go, either. Still time to raise a generation of free thinking, big picture-seeing, deft players of the system.

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  • 1 month later...

Some technical stuff from the SCMP

 

Hong Kong needs a less rigid education system and more nurturing start-up environment to counter the lure of financial incentives and heavy R&D spending Shenzhen and other Chinese cities offer

 

 

“I really want to hire local interns but local graduates tend to be very passive and they don’t dare kick people in the butt. By comparison, expatriate interns are more proactive, more vocal and they work hard,” she says.
Joanne Ooi, founder of a rare Hong Kong start-up that managed to list publicly, has just quit Hong Kong for Britain. She thinks that there is a cultural resistance to creative entrepreneurship that goes deeper than the education system.
“The idea of a civil society that prizes individual freedoms above all, a place where anyone can pursue anything untrammelled, is subversive here. It is the same in many Asian cultures, where to subordinate the group, the family, for the individual has never been philosophically permitted,” says Ooi, whose online jewellery company Plukka raised A$10 million (HK$57.9 million) on the Australian Securities Exchange last year. Add to that Hong Kong’s high rents, a lack of quality engineers and cutting-edge academic institutions, and “replicating formulas that are historically validated becomes irresistible”, she says.
Ooi resigned from Plukka last year after its restructuring under a new managing director and was also tired of living under a government mired in structural inertia, she says.
Still, Hong Kong has one major advantage over most other Asian cities: freedom of expression (incidents such as the disappearing booksellers and mystery over the stabbing of journalist Kevin Lau Chun-to aside).
CreateHK had no comment when asked if it considers Hong Kong’s civil liberties a valuable asset, and whether it promotes such benefits.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

This article in the SCMP raises some good points

 

Some, like the last governor Chris Patten, blame the British; but given where we are today, it is the localists – and those who encourage them – who are selling our city down the river

 

 

Chris Patten, speaking to the BBC, has blasted the British government for selling out Hong Kong. It’s not the first time the last governor has rounded on his government for kowtowing to the mainland in its pursuit of trade and business interests to the exclusion of democracy and civil rights in Hong Kong. . . .

 

The time for the British to do the honourable thing is long gone. They should have granted full citizenship to Hong Kong people before the transfer of sovereignty in 1997. Having failed that, the best thing they could do is to leave us Chinese alone to work it out among ourselves.

 

. . .

 

The Joint Declaration makes no mention of universal suffrage or democracy; you need the Basic Law for that. The closest it gets to that is “on the basis of the results of elections or consultations to be held locally” for choosing the chief executive. The Basic Law, alas, is a matter solely between Hong Kong and the mainland.
The Joint Declaration also cites “the United Kingdom and other countries, whose economic interests in Hong Kong will be given due regard”. It explicitly spells out “national unity and territorial integrity” for China.

 

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the latest abduction

 

Chinese billionaire reportedly abducted from Hong Kong hotel and taken to mainland

 

In the latest eerie disappearance to unsettle Hong Kong, a Chinese billionaire with links to the family of Chinese President Xi Jinping was reportedly taken from his luxury apartment in the Four Seasons in Hong Kong and escorted across the border to the mainland by Chinese police.
Xiao Jianhua, a fiancier worth an estimated 40 billion yuan ($6 billion), is currently in police custody on the mainland, according to the Financial Times. The reason for his apparent detention is unknown, though there is speculation that Xiao may be "assisting" with one of many anti-corruption investigations launched by Xi.
. . .
While Xiao's relatives had filed a request for assistance from Hong Kong police on January 28th, they withdrew their request a day later.
. . .
The saga left many in Hong Kong questioning their protections and freedoms under the "one country, two systems" principle that Beijing promised to uphold when taking over the former British colony. Under Hong Kong's own mini-constitution, only Hong Kong police are allowed to operate inside the region.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

An issue resulting from the Basic Law - typically, the Chinese customs is on one side of the river, while Hong Kong customs is on the other. You must walk across the bridge between the checkpoints.

All you need to know about the Hong Kong-mainland rail link, co-located checkpoints and law enforcement issues
Time is running out for both governments to agree on a plan that satisfies the Basic Law and “one country two systems”

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Quote
What is the co-location arrangement?
 
The co-location of customs, immigration and quarantine (CIQ) facilities at the West Kowloon terminus would see passengers complete clearance procedures of Hong Kong and mainland authorities both prior to boarding and after disembarking the train.
 
For mainland-bound travellers, this would allow passengers to disembark the train at any station on the mainland’s rail network without having to go through clearance processes. Without a co-location arrangement at the West Kowloon terminus, passengers would be required to complete clearance procedures after reaching their destination, thus greatly reducing the efficiency and convenience of the high-speed rail link.
 
Why is it controversial?
 
The proposed arrangement means part of the West Kowloon terminus will be surrendered to mainland customs, immigration and quarantine personnel. This means they would be authorised to enforce mainland laws and regulations.

 

 

Edited by Randy W (see edit history)
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It seems to me that there are two "Basic Facts" here:

 

1. That Great Britain sold Hong Kong down the river to the Communists without ever having established a legacy of free and democratic elections

 

2. The Basic Law GOES AWAY in 2047

 

Still, an interesting article about the State of the SAR

 

in the SCMP

 

Student activist Joshua Wong, democrat Martin Lee, bookseller Lam Wing-kee and former governor Chris Patten speak to panel on situation two decades after handover

 

Hong Kong’s most high-profile democracy campaigners urged the US at a congressional panel late on Wednesday night to take a tougher stance against Beijing to protect the city’s freedoms.
The city’s last British governor, Chris Patten, joined them as the Congressional-Executive Commission on China was told that the “high degree of autonomy” promised to Hong Kong had decayed over two decades of Chinese rule.
Student activist Joshua Wong Chi-fung, one of the leaders of the Occupy protests, was at the hearing in Washington, along with veteran democrat Martin Lee Chu-ming and Lam Wing-kee, one of the Hong Kong booksellers who went missing and later turned up in the custody of mainland Chinese authorities.

 

 

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in the SCMP

 

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It’s a given that state leaders will praise an openly obsequious government in Macau, but increasingly it sounds like a warning to us to toe the line – or else!

 

 

 

Hong Kong has a key part to play in the Great Game of international politics, global trade and China’s rise. Macau will always be a sideshow. Our government is being measured against global governance standards while still having to please Beijing. Macau’s government faces no such pressure or comparison. Our people are also far more ideologically diverse.
China’s state leaders are political realists who understand this. They know Hong Kong’s problems and conflicts won’t go away on their say-so. Their criticism increasingly sounds like frustration and impatience. And therein lies the real danger. One day soon, they will stop giving lectures, and instead show us the whip.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 3/15/2017 at 4:57 PM, Randy W said:

 

An issue resulting from the Basic Law - typically, the Chinese customs is on one side of the river, while Hong Kong customs is on the other. You must walk across the bridge between the checkpoints.

 

All you need to know about the Hong Kong-mainland rail link, co-located checkpoints and law enforcement issues
 

Time is running out for both governments to agree on a plan that satisfies the Basic Law and “one country two systems”

 

66f7c89c-07c9-11e7-8938-48dffbf7165d_132

Quote
What is the co-location arrangement?
 
The co-location of customs, immigration and quarantine (CIQ) facilities at the West Kowloon terminus would see passengers complete clearance procedures of Hong Kong and mainland authorities both prior to boarding and after disembarking the train.
 
For mainland-bound travellers, this would allow passengers to disembark the train at any station on the mainland’s rail network without having to go through clearance processes. Without a co-location arrangement at the West Kowloon terminus, passengers would be required to complete clearance procedures after reaching their destination, thus greatly reducing the efficiency and convenience of the high-speed rail link.
 
Why is it controversial?
 
The proposed arrangement means part of the West Kowloon terminus will be surrendered to mainland customs, immigration and quarantine personnel. This means they would be authorised to enforce mainland laws and regulations.

 

 

 

 

 

Mainland law will apply on the train all the way to the Kowloon terminal. That is, you in effect EXIT Hong Kong and enter the Mainland to get on the train. In the SCMP

Lawmaker Michael Tien reveals that mainland laws will also be enforced on Hong Kong section of express rail link in a move expected to prompt pan-democrat fury

b0c4fe82-3fa9-11e7-8c27-b06d81bc1bba_128

 

Quote
Mainland officers will be allowed to fully enforce national laws in the immigration hall and on express trains in Hong Kong under a consensus reached on the joint checkpoint arrangement for the high-speed rail link to Guangzhou, the Post has learned.
 
Citing reliable sources, lawmaker Michael Tien Puk-sun told the Post that Beijing and Hong Kong had reached a consensus that a mainland restricted zone serving as part of a joint immigration checkpoint would be created at the West Kowloon terminus of the express rail link.

 

 

Edited by Randy W (see edit history)
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While on the surface it would seem the mainland is expediting the process to keep the high speed on schedule. However if I am reading correctly, this would also seem to give quite a bit of "extra" time while on the train to be guilty of abuse of power to investigate and then detain or deny all the way to point of exit, instead of waiting in line to clear customs at the exit/arrival point as is normal? And of course exercising more control into HK itself, instead of at the border.

 

As an example:

Would be like CBP setting up in GUZ and riding the plane all the way here, clearing and questioning all the way to your POE, but then you just get off and leave, no waiting at customs upon arrival.

 

Something smells fishy and once given an inch, it will surely be expanded in other ways too.

 

Actions speak much more louder than mere words on this one I feel.

 

Mods, please delete this if I have misread and/or misinterpreted the articles/information.

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While on the surface it would seem the mainland is expediting the process to keep the high speed on schedule. However if I am reading correctly, this would also seem to give quite a bit of "extra" time while on the train to be guilty of abuse of power to investigate and then detain or deny all the way to point of exit, instead of waiting in line to clear customs at the exit/arrival point as is normal? And of course exercising more control into HK itself, instead of at the border.

 

As an example:

Would be like CBP setting up in GUZ and riding the plane all the way here, clearing and questioning all the way to your POE, but then you just get off and leave, no waiting at customs upon arrival.

 

Something smells fishy and once given an inch, it will surely be expanded in other ways too. - Yes - this is the objection that has been raised by Basic Law purists - see my note below about the customs checkpoints on opposite sides of the river.

 

Actions speak much more louder than mere words on this one I feel.

 

Mods, please delete this if I have misread and/or misinterpreted the articles/information.

 

The U.S. already does this in Canada for some flights to the U.S. - you clear customs before boarding the plane to the U.S. No need for them to ride the plane with us.

 

Nothing would be gained by your GUZ example, whether you clear customs in GUZ before boarding, or in the U.S. after arrival.

 

On the train, when you board in China, you are under Chinese law. That will simply be EXTENDED all the way to Kowloon, at which point everyone will go through Chinese Exit customs and Hong Kong Entry.

 

On the trip BACK to the Mainland, you Exit Hong Kong Customs and are processed for entry to China BEFORE boarding at Kowloon (the only terminal in Hong Kong for the high speed train). What is saved by this is that the Chinese Customs will NOT need to board the train, and will need ONE station only, which will be at Kowloon. To do otherwise would require an Entry Processing station at EVERY stop for the train.

 

The downside is that Chinese law will now be enforced within Hong Kong (if only while boarding and riding the train) - contrary to the Basic Law by which Hong Kong is governed.

 

If you look at the other Entry/Exit checkpoints - Chinese Customs is on one side of the river, Hong Kong on the other. You WALK through a no-man's land to get from one jurisdiction to the other.

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  • 4 weeks later...

 

the latest abduction

 

Chinese billionaire reportedly abducted from Hong Kong hotel and taken to mainland

 

In the latest eerie disappearance to unsettle Hong Kong, a Chinese billionaire with links to the family of Chinese President Xi Jinping was reportedly taken from his luxury apartment in the Four Seasons in Hong Kong and escorted across the border to the mainland by Chinese police.
Xiao Jianhua, a fiancier worth an estimated 40 billion yuan ($6 billion), is currently in police custody on the mainland, according to the Financial Times. The reason for his apparent detention is unknown, though there is speculation that Xiao may be "assisting" with one of many anti-corruption investigations launched by Xi.
. . .
While Xiao's relatives had filed a request for assistance from Hong Kong police on January 28th, they withdrew their request a day later.
. . .
The saga left many in Hong Kong questioning their protections and freedoms under the "one country, two systems" principle that Beijing promised to uphold when taking over the former British colony. Under Hong Kong's own mini-constitution, only Hong Kong police are allowed to operate inside the region.

 

 

 

 

 

City authorities intend to press on with the probe, and government sources tell the Post they believe he was escorted by mainland officials over border

 

Government sources said they believed Xiao was escorted back across the border by mainland law enforcement agents, but admitted there was nothing Hong Kong police could do if mainland authorities did not answer them.
While Xiao was believed to be on the mainland helping with investigations, force insiders said they had no information because their counterparts over the border had refused to confirm or deny anything.
. . .
“Xiao was first driven to one of the city’s immigration control points, but he failed to produce his travel document and was not allowed to cross the border,” a source said.
His travel document, the source added, was later brought to him before he left the city through another control point, at Lok Ma Chau, as reported earlier. Xiao was seen in a car during an immigration inspection before the vehicle drove across the border.

 

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from the Global Times

President Xi to attend Hong Kong 20th anniversary celebrations

Quote
Chinese President Xi Jinping will be in Hong Kong from June 29 to July 1 to attend a ceremony marking the 20th anniversary of Hong Kong's return to the motherland, Xinhua News Agency reported.
 
President Xi will also attend the inauguration of new chief executive Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor and her cabinet, which will take place at the anniversary ceremony.

 

 

 It’s on: Chinese President Xi Jinping to visit Hong Kong for handover anniversary

President’s first visit to the city as national leader will include overseeing Carrie Lam’s swearing-in as chief executive, but will not involve visit with ordinary residents
Quote
Xi has a packed itinerary that includes overseeing the swearing-in of the new chief executive, Carrie Lam Cheng Yuet-ngor, and her cabinet on July 1. Before flying out later that day, he is expected to visit one of the city’s two major controversy-plagued infrastructure project sites – either the Hong Kong-Zhuhai-Macau bridge or the high-speed rail link to Guangzhou.
 
Sources said Xi’s tight schedule would leave no time to visit a local family or neighbourhood, as his predecessors had in the past.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Randy W (see edit history)
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The 20th Anniversary of the return of Hong Kong to China is July 1. On Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/scmp/videos/10155380553279820/?pnref=story
Hong Kong and Kowloon were OWNED outright by Britain, but the New Territories was granted to them in a 100 year lease - which expired in 1997. Rather than try to set up new border crossings, they simply returned the whole shebang to China - which this video talks about.
More from the SCMP at http://buff.ly/2tL4PBj

 
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What's the deal with the Hong Kong handover?
From China to Britain and back again: all you need to know about Hong Kong’s handover.
More: http://buff.ly/2tL4PB
South China Morning Post added a new video: What's the deal with the Hong Kong handover?
1 hr ·

From China to Britain and back again: all you need to know about Hong Kong’s handover.
More: http://buff.ly/2tL4PBj

Edited by Randy W (see edit history)
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also SCMP

 

Then 17-year-old Cai Chengwen remembers soldiers were prepared for any disruption on that historic day; he has since often been back to the city as a tourist

 

4a8cc85c-5660-11e7-839c-33f85c43b72e_980

 

 

 

But he had no time to enjoy the view because People’s Liberation Army troops were on high alert just in case “hostile forces” emerged.
Cai said the 39 vehicles in his convoy were loaded with rifles, grenades and bullets, and both he and his comrades were ready for combat should anti-China forces have tried to prevent them from entering.
A special aviation squad from Beijing was sent to Shenzhen to support the troops, and helicopters had their engines turned on the whole day. “The backup plan was to enter Hong Kong by helicopter,” he said.
However contingency plans were not needed and soldiers were greeted by New Territories villagers on their way to the barracks where they were met by Scottish members of the Black Watch regiment.
“They looked funny ... they were wearing some ‘British skirts’,” he said, referring to kilts, which the rural youth considered unmasculine. “They looked very old ... I doubted if they could really fight.”

 

 

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