The Odyssey - Democracy in Hong Kong

[danb]

Hello, From the reports that I have been reading here, Hong Kong had the National celebration (Golden Week) off. Was the Chinese stock Markets also closed that week? This last Monday I thought the protests had lost a lot of steam. I thought it was caused by some of the stern warnings that I had heard being thrown about. Didn't the demonstrators clear many of the streets so the workers could go back to work on that Monday. From here it seemed like the protests were dwindling down. I guess that was not the case.

 

I had dinner with a Chinese friend last night. She was saying that the protesters were being disruptive to Hong Kong. That they were preventing people from carrying out their work and making money for their families.. She also said that Hong Kong's tourism was being hurt. It was interesting to listen to her views. We usually don't talk much about politics but when we do she often will take a pragmatic view of things. I told her that I had mixed emotions on what was happening in Hong Kong. Wish I knew more younger Chinese and could hear their views on the whole matter. Danb

[Randy W]

Hello, From the reports that I have been reading here, Hong Kong had the National celebration (Golden Week) off. Was the Chinese stock Markets also closed that week? This last Monday I thought the protests had lost a lot of steam. I thought it was caused by some of the stern warnings that I had heard being thrown about. Didn't the demonstrators clear many of the streets so the workers could go back to work on that Monday. From here it seemed like the protests were dwindling down. I guess that was not the case.

 

. . .

 

 

Hong Kong apparently didn't get the entire Golden Week off, since they were back at work on Monday (the Golden Week extended into Monday and Tuesday the 6th and 7th, with Saturday the 11th being a make-up work day). The protests HAVE changed, allowing people to go to work, but are continuing. The South China Morning Post provides a daily update on the activities each day.

[Randy W]

from the SCMP

 

A cartoon timeline: Harry's View on Occupy Central

Our cartoonist's take on Hong Kong's historic civil disobedience movement as events have unfolded over the last two months

 

[Randy W]

and some very good points in an Op-Ed piece in the SCMP

 

Hong Kong has more than just democracy to worry about

Hong Kong residents who have been travelling these past two weeks will have experienced what it is like to have the international media as your only source of information.

You would be excused for being under the impression that the city was in chaos, that the People's Liberation Army was massed at the border and that a revolution was under way.

You would also have learned from leading experts that democracy is a panacea to all ills, and that any non-English-speaking local who looks a bit rough and opposed to street protests is a triad member.

. . .

Here are just a few things the international media paid little attention to in its coverage.

. . .

Second, though a fear of Chinese trampling of the rule of law was one of the core drivers of the current dissent, those fighting for its preservation have themselves disregarded it. Irrespective of which side of the fence you sit on, there is no denying the irony of the fact that the protesters did not give those who disagreed with them any say in what would happen when they broke the laws of our community.

. . .

Fourth, Hong Kong's current situation is made more difficult by our post-colonial transition following 150 years of British rule. At no point during this period were locals given democratic rights; on the contrary, for most of it they were treated like second-class citizens. Unravelling such a past is never easy, as the history of many former colonies will tell you, and is made even more complicated in this case by the fact that Hong Kong was handed back to a nation with a political system that departs from the West's liberal tradition. (Regardless of one's position on China, it is objectively no mean feat to have managed two such different systems simultaneously.) The events of the past few weeks are only a microcosm of these wider, longer-lasting ideological and economic issues.

. . .

There is always the danger of unintended consequences when change is sought without a broader understanding of external pressures, what makes certain societies function and how new polices will affect them. One of the big challenges for Hong Kong is dealing with its problems, neglected for too long, while maintaining what is already great about this city.

Any advanced society that banks on slogans is one that is in danger of thinking that there are always simple solutions to problems, and that change can come without the hard work of coming up with new ideas backed by analysis, building consensus, learning to compromise and making sacrifice.

We should move beyond the belief that the solutions to Hong Kong's challenges lie in a choice between becoming more democratic or less. The big picture is not as simple as that.

Chandran Nair is the founder and CEO of the Global Institute For Tomorrow and author of Consumptionomics: Asia's Role in Reshaping Capitalism and Saving the Planet

 

[Thomas Promise]

http://news.yahoo.com/katie-couric-now-i-get-it-umbrella-revolution-175949877.html?fbmark=katiec2014

Edited October 18, 2014 by Randy W
Katie Couric - Hong Kong's 'umbrella revolution' explained (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Not much seems to be happening, but a LOT of headlines about the protest in today's South China Morning Post (I've used up my free access for this month)

 

http://www.scmp.com/frontpage/international

 

Fears over 'radicals' as protest violence increases, but sources say Beijing won't be embarrassed into action

Violence in Mong Kok: Are the protests spinning out of control?

Concerns are growing that the Occupy movement in Mong Kok has spun out of control and is on the verge of turning into a riot, after nights of violent clashes since police reclaimed part of the rally site.

• Police warn online posters who incite Occupy protests will be arrested
• Occupy Central organisers want independent Hong Kong, People's Daily claims

• Is Occupy Central spinning out of control with the latest violent clashes in Mong Kok?

• Watch: Injured Occupy Mong Kok protester: Hong Kong police officer hit me

More on Occupy Central

[Randy W]

The SCMP won't let me access their articles anymore until after the first, but I expect this should be an interesting read, especially for Taiwan residents.

 

 

A top Beijing official says that Hong Kong politicians can “say freely whatever they want” – but they must not criticise the local government in a manner that is not “constructive".

Speak freely - but choose your words carefully, Beijing warns Hong Kong politicians

[Randy W]

May be an interesting proposal - in SCMP's "The View" Section - by Peter Guy

Time for new leadership in Hong Kong

To mitigate the threats from the Occupy protest, HK should have a directly elected legislature with the chief executive appointed by Beijing

 

Because when a teenage student can inspire and communicate to people better than any of the government and business leaders, it is time to conclude that the city's elite is incapable of producing respectable and credible leaders.

 

Only bold reform will prevent Hong Kong and the mainland from becoming two peoples

Occupy Central has proven that the concept of having this capital of global commerce led by a business-oriented government now lies in tatters. And that is no surprise because business people are uniquely unqualified for governing societies. Tycoons cannot easily comprehend the swelling tide of important political and social forces.

 

Debating change within the stifling borders of the Basic Law has become a dreary affair. Playing with the functional constituencies and nomination committee rules does not deliver anything close to a truly representative government.

 

Since 1997, Hong Kong and the mainland have changed much faster and differently than anticipated. In 1997, some thought the city would lead the mainland into the world. Today, the mainland is a global leader and no Hong Kong business or government leader makes much of a difference to the country at large. The only sensible solution is to scrap our present form of government and replace it with a system where the chief executive is appointed directly by the central government.

 

. . .

 

And like the president of the United States, the chief executive would have to be careful about exercising veto power lest he precipitate protests from legislators or spark another Occupy groundswell protest movement.

 

For all of its flaws, the US is a vibrant democracy in which elections matter. Even if a new system in Hong Kong may still not have a directly elected chief executive, the entire Legco would be. That seems to be a workable compromise. And we need one because Occupy's ideas will not diminish. The yearning howl of youth will echo down this generation and risks unsettling the city.

 

Only bold reform will prevent Hong Kong and the mainland from becoming two peoples between whom there is no intercourse and no sympathy.

 

Peter Guy is a financial writer and former international banker

 

[Randy W]

. . . and perhaps affecting the outcome of the elections in Taiwan

 

from Xinhua in the Global Times

Taiwan chief administrator resigns after party defeat in local elections

 

and the VOA

 

Pro-China Ruling Party Loses Ground in Taiwan Elections

Taiwan’s chief opposition, the Democratic Progressive Party, advocated keeping more distance from Beijing when it ruled from 2000 to 2008. The party's stance angered China, making agreements difficult and occasionally raising the specter of a military strike.

 

The opposition party says now that it is open to talks with Beijing, but not on the premise that both sides belong to one country. It picked up seven seats in elections Saturday.

 

. . .

 

Analysts in Taiwan expect the government to keep up relations with China before the 2016 presidential race. The two sides are already negotiating a deal to cut import tariffs on thousands of goods and studying each side’s launch of a consular-style office on the other's soil.

 

[Randy W]

Of course China will allow Britain to step in and tell them how to establish Democracy in Hong Kong after Britain didn't bother to do so in 150 years of rule

 

China Says British Lawmakers Would Be Barred From Hong Kong

China has said it would deny a group of British members of Parliament entry into Hong Kong after the lawmakers signaled they were going to look into the handling of the pro-democracy protests there, the chairman of the group said.

 

Richard Ottaway, the head of the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee, planned to seek an emergency debate on Hong Kong in Parliament on Monday.

The refusal Friday to grant access came days after a British lawmaker who had served as a diplomat in China was denied a visa to the mainland by Beijing on the grounds that his attitude toward the Hong Kong protesters was not acceptable.

. . .

Mr. Graham, the head of the All-Party Parliamentary China Group, was told by the Chinese Embassy to clarify his approach to Hong Kong. In October, he had told Parliament that Britain had a duty to uphold the principles of the 1984 joint declaration by Britain and China.

That document formed the basis of Britain’s return of Hong Kong to China on the grounds that Hong Kong would be allowed greater freedoms than the mainland under the “one country, two systems” agreement.

 

[Randy W]

I got a good laugh out of this article in an English rag

 

China has broken Hong Kong agreement, say British MPs

China has broken its agreement with the UK to let Hong Kong govern its own borders for at least 50 years in a move that must not go unchallenged, senior MPs said on Tuesday.

 

In an emergency debate in the House of Commons, MPs from all parties called on the government to condemn China after it refused a House of Commons delegation entry to the former British overseas territory.

 

. . .

 

 

“China’s opposition to any foreign government, organisation or individual interfering in Hong Kong’s affairs in any form is resolute,” Hua told a daily news briefing, according to Reuters.

 

“If certain people in Britain still want to keep on like this, it is not only irrational and useless but like lifting up a rock to drop it on one’s foot.”

 

She said the MPs were not there to conduct “a normal, friendly visit but to carry out a so-called investigation on Chinese territory”.

 

“We do not need any foreign lawmakers to carry out probes. I hope they can clearly see this basic reality,” she said.

 

MPs have reacted with fury to the decision, saying it is unprecedented in the history of Commons foreign affairs committee trips to countries such as Iran, Russia, Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.

During the lengthy debate, Sir Richard Ottaway, the chairman of the committee, said the move “would only harm China’s reputation and financial interest in an increasingly global world”.

 

A range of senior politicians who have chaired select committees also lined up to criticise China’s decision, including Sir Gerald Kaufman, Sir Malcolm Rifkind, Sir John Stanley and Mike Gapes.

 

[Randy W]

Some interesting comments from Xi Jinping while in Macau - in the South China Morning Post

 

Xi Jinping tells Macau to stick to 'one country, two systems' - in veiled swipe at Hong Kong

 

President Xi Jinping praised Macau for its implementation of the “one country, two systems” principle and warned against “external interference”, in what an analyst said were remarks aimed instead at protest-rattled Hong Kong.

 

Xi, who will end his two-day visit to Macau today, said focusing separately on either “one country” or “two systems”, but not together, was “misguided” and compared it to wearing the wrong shoes.

 

“We must both adhere to the one-China principle and respect the differences of the two systems … at no time should we focus only on one side to the neglect of the other,” he said. “This is the only way leading to sound and steady progress.”

 

He said any other way would be “a misguided approach from the beginning” and like “putting one’s left foot into the right shoe”,

 

. . .

 

He urged the Macau government to strengthen education for the younger generation to safeguard patriotism.

 

Xi laid out four tasks for Macau to hopefully fulfil, including promoting the rule of law and building a clean, fair and efficient government.

 

He also said the territory, to promote social stability, should ensure its people can share the fruits of development. It should also strengthen the education of young people so they could have a stronger sense of national pride, Xi said.

 

 

. . .

 

 

Regarding Xi’s warning against foreign interference, So said it could refer to two factors: the pro-democracy movement in Macau, which is perceived as backed by other countries; and the foreign investment on the city’s gaming business.

 

He said the casino franchises currently are dominated by US firms, which has apparently failed to implement its corporate responsibility to return its lucrative income to the community.

“The central government is very cautious on the matter as they afraid the United States would meddle in the city’s affairs via such business[es],” said So.

 

The Macau government will start reviewing the casino licences renewal next year.

 

[Randy W]

A interesting, but lengthy article in the New York Times about the movement - for anyone who's interested

 

Hong Kong’s Umbrella Revolution Isn’t Over Yet A democracy movement ponders its next move.

[Randy W]

What strikes me about his article is that it's more in the way of Democracy than they ever had under Great Britain

Xinhua:

HK reveals universal suffrage package for 2017 leader

 

but it's still not that much of a change

 

Washington Post:

Hong Kong unveils election reforms but pro-democracy leaders push back

 

Now the government needs to convince lawmakers to pass its proposals. It would expand the democratic space in Hong Kong by allowing universal suffrage for the first time, but still give Chinese authorities overwhelming influence in the selection of candidates.

 

Prospects do not look good. The government needs to sway at least four members of the pro-democracy camp to achieve the required two-thirds majority in the 70-member council.

All but one of the pro-democracy lawmakers walked out of the parliament after plans were unveiled, wearing yellow crosses on black shirts to signal their pledge to vote down the plans. They left placards with the same design.

 

[Randy W]

In the SCMP . . .

 

‘It is not what we like to see’ – China’s government reacts to Hong Kong’s rejection of political reform plan

 

Beijing says it remains committed to universal suffrage in Hong Kong, despite today’s rejection of a political reform plan by the city’s legislature this afternoon.

 

A proposal that would have allowed Hongkongers to elect their leader in 2017 – but only under a strict framework set by Beijing – was voted down by 28 votes to 8 in the Legislative Council.

 

This afternoon, a spokesman for the State Council’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office said: “Such a result is a departure from the mainstream public opinion of Hong Kong. It is also not what the central government likes to see.”

 

The spokesman criticised the pan-democrats and said they should be held responsible for denying Hong Kong people the chance to elect their leader. The camp’s 27 lawmakers all voted against the reform plan, while many pro-establishment lawmakers missed the vote after walking out in a failed attempt to delay the vote.

 

. . .

 

Meanwhile the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress – the body which set the strict framework for reform that pan-democrats decried as “fake universal suffrage” – issued a statement standing by its ruling.

 

“Although the universal suffrage motion was not passed … the direction towards universal suffrage and the legal principles laid down in the decision of the … Standing Committee, must continue to be upheld in future efforts to pursue universal suffrage,” it read.