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Wanting to get everything right on the first try


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Hi everyone, I have been reading the tons of inspiring stories and kind, helpful advice on the site for over a year now. I have just gotten married and now it's time to start this long process. The problem is that I think I have read too much information and advice (given to others)! I don't know exactly where to start or what choices are the right/best ones for our situation.

 

I am an American and my wife is from Shanxi, both born in 1983. I have been living in Beijing for about 2 years and we got married on August 1st this year. We applied for a tourist visa but she was denied this morning. I have to go to the States on business in October and had hoped she could come after the business was finished and meet my family for the first time. I wasn't too surprised that she was denied; American husband+no real assets+low paying job=low chance of issuance.

 

I have been amazed by the kindness of people on this site in helping total strangers and hope someone may be able to advise us as well. I have many questions so any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

First off, we are trying to decide if we should try DCF or if I should submit the application when I am in America in October. I have read the rules several times and am mostly stuck on the issue of domicile. Right now I am on a student visa and will be getting a z-visa very soon (as part of the business trip). I believe I meet the residency requirements for China but I haven't lived in the U.S. since I graduated from university. I lived 4 years in Japan and now 2 in Beijing. I have no home in America but do have a current driver license, an active bank account, credit card, 3 small investment accounts and I have filed tax returns accurately every year. Everything uses my parents' address.

 

Where should I start?

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You should be able to DCF. Domicile is another issue. If you've maintained a residence address in the US and or bank account it shouldn't be a problem. Your income will probably be a problem requiring a co-sponsor. Lot's of info here on doing DCF. I'm too tired right now to dig it up but I'm sure someone will come along soon to point you in the right direction.

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I have no home in America but do have a current driver license, an active bank account, credit card, 3 small investment accounts and I have filed tax returns accurately every year. Everything uses my parents' address.

 

The only thing missing as far as domicile is a job in the U.S. You should try to at least show that you are actively looking for a job, but this won't come up until time for the interview.

 

The DCF may very well give you an interview date before the end of the year (this can easily be delayed for up to a year) - if you wait until October to file in the U.S., the interview would be sometime next year (also easily delayed).

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Wow these replies came really fast, thanks. I have looked over what a lot of people have written about DCF. Because I have been a resident in 2 countries since leaving the States, I figured there was no real way to claim I was "temporarily" living abroad and still had domicile in the states. The key appears to be that "temporary" nature or, as was mentioned, making a strong case for having a job lined up. I gather this from the Department of State website which states:

  • He/she left the United States for a limited and not indefinite period of time,
  • He/she intended to maintain a domicile in the United States, and
  • He/she has evidence of continued ties to the United States.

6 years and 2 countries would seem not particularly limited or definite wouldn't it? Or am I overthinking this?

As for work, I am employed by a Chinese company exporting raw materials. There is a possibility that when I go back to America, I will continue this work either full time or as a side job therefore haven't really been looking for a job in the States. I would like to be able to stay in Beijing with my wife until it is actually time to go. I doubt many companies would promise me a job for "sometime in the next year or so." If I do have to go back before my wife, I suppose I will.

 

In dealing with the financial support aspect, my parents are willing and able to provide an affidavit of support.

 

Thanks for all the help

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Wow these replies came really fast, thanks. I have looked over what a lot of people have written about DCF. Because I have been a resident in 2 countries since leaving the States, I figured there was no real way to claim I was "temporarily" living abroad and still had domicile in the states. The key appears to be that "temporary" nature or, as was mentioned, making a strong case for having a job lined up. I gather this from the Department of State website which states:

  • He/she left the United States for a limited and not indefinite period of time,
  • He/she intended to maintain a domicile in the United States, and
  • He/she has evidence of continued ties to the United States.

6 years and 2 countries would seem not particularly limited or definite wouldn't it? Or am I overthinking this?

 

As for work, I am employed by a Chinese company exporting raw materials. There is a possibility that when I go back to America, I will continue this work either full time or as a side job therefore haven't really been looking for a job in the States. I would like to be able to stay in Beijing with my wife until it is actually time to go. I doubt many companies would promise me a job for "sometime in the next year or so." If I do have to go back before my wife, I suppose I will.

 

In dealing with the financial support aspect, my parents are willing and able to provide an affidavit of support.

 

Thanks for all the help

 

Yes, you are overthinking here. Domicile comes into play when you bring her back to the states. At the time of the interview, will you be ready with a job/job search, and a place to hang your hat? For visa purposes, I doubt that it matters how long (or where) you've been gone - simply that you are ready to move back.

 

Sounds to me like you've got that covered.

 

For timing purposes, like I've said, you can easily control the date of the interview for up to a year - if your file has been inactive for longer than a year, it will be discarded. Once she has the visa, she will need to use it within six months. As long as she uses the visa before the six month expiration, she can return to China and be out of the country (U.S.) for up to six months without the green card being considered abandoned. That would give you up to a two year window, if needed.

 

But if you're worried about having to go back sooner rather than later for employment purposes, then the DCF would seem to be the way to go. That way, your wife could join you as soon as this year or early next year.

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That was very helpful. I will certainly try DCF here in Beijing then.

 

What I actually meant by "If I have to go back before my wife" was if I need to go back first in order to establish domicile or satisfy some other requirement, I will. I really want to get back to the U.S. as soon as possible but I don't want to leave her behind. We have some savings built up so future job concerns are secondary to us being together.

 

We have started filling out the forms but don't know what to put regarding addresses. I apologize if this gets a little unclear. Question B-2 asks for my address. I have 4 that could apply here:

 

1) My parents' physical address - It is literally in the middle of a forest on a small private road and has absolutely no mail service

2) My parents' mailing address - A PO box in the nearest town where they receive all mail

3) The address where I live in China (1.5 years) - My wife's apartment rented in her name only. The landlord can't/won't register me at that address so I don't "officially" live there.

4) The address where I am registered - A landlord friend of mine registered me at a place he owns for a super low price because I don't actually take up space there

 

I would prefer to use option 2 if possible. For question C-19 it asks for her address abroad; option 3 is the obvious choice but we don't want anything mailed there because there is about a 95% chance we won't receive it. She always has everything sent to her work address. C-21 asks for the last address where we lived together; option 3 is the correct one but I have nothing on paper to prove it (also doesn't help prove our marriage is real).

 

The G-325A has similar issues with my current address and our preferences are the same as above. We are just concerned about proof and where things will be mailed.

 

Finally, it asks for employment for the last 5 years. In China, I have taught English on the side but without proof. The job I currently have, started in April but will not have a work visa until October. The paperwork from my employer is ready to go, I just haven't gotten around to heading back home to get the visa. Flying to the other side of the world and back, spending about $1000 just to submit papers and wait a couple of hours is kind of silly in my opinion. What should I say regarding employment? Will not having the visa before starting work have an effect?

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That was very helpful. I will certainly try DCF here in Beijing then.

 

What I actually meant by "If I have to go back before my wife" was if I need to go back first in order to establish domicile or satisfy some other requirement, I will. I really want to get back to the U.S. as soon as possible but I don't want to leave her behind. We have some savings built up so future job concerns are secondary to us being together.

 

We have started filling out the forms but don't know what to put regarding addresses. I apologize if this gets a little unclear. Question B-2 asks for my address. I have 4 that could apply here:

 

1) My parents' physical address - It is literally in the middle of a forest on a small private road and has absolutely no mail service

2) My parents' mailing address - A PO box in the nearest town where they receive all mail

3) The address where I live in China (1.5 years) - My wife's apartment rented in her name only. The landlord can't/won't register me at that address so I don't "officially" live there.

4) The address where I am registered - A landlord friend of mine registered me at a place he owns for a super low price because I don't actually take up space there

 

I would prefer to use option 2 if possible. For question C-19 it asks for her address abroad; option 3 is the obvious choice but we don't want anything mailed there because there is about a 95% chance we won't receive it. She always has everything sent to her work address. C-21 asks for the last address where we lived together; option 3 is the correct one but I have nothing on paper to prove it (also doesn't help prove our marriage is real).

 

The G-325A has similar issues with my current address and our preferences are the same as above. We are just concerned about proof and where things will be mailed.

 

Finally, it asks for employment for the last 5 years. In China, I have taught English on the side but without proof. The job I currently have, started in April but will not have a work visa until October. The paperwork from my employer is ready to go, I just haven't gotten around to heading back home to get the visa. Flying to the other side of the world and back, spending about $1000 just to submit papers and wait a couple of hours is kind of silly in my opinion. What should I say regarding employment? Will not having the visa before starting work have an effect?

 

The only reason you would have to go back early (potentially) is for a job - your residence is already lined up (for immigration purposes anyway).

 

Like you said,

 

I doubt many companies would promise me a job for "sometime in the next year or so." If I do have to go back before my wife, I suppose I will

 

Using your parents' address now can help establish that as your domicile - and help make sure you get any mail (especially if they can scan and email the image to you). Most of it is handled electronically these days, though, so that shouldn't be a big concern.

 

Be sure to use the address # 4 for your wife's mailing address.

 

Have you filed income tax returns over the last three years? If not, you will need to do so, unless you are making below a taxable level of income. Remember that the foreign income exclusion doesn't apply unless you file, so you can't claim it unless you file. Make sure you have this covered, since you will need to submit an I-864 with 3 years tax returns for yourself.

 

I taught English for a year, but was never required to get a Z-visa. The work and residence permits were issued by the Yulin PSB without any need to leave the country. But do what you gotta do - whatever your PSB requires of you is what you need to follow.

 

The American authorities aren't concerned about the legalities of your employment. Just be sure that the income you report is in line with what you report for income tax purposes - or that you have a legitimate explanation for NOT filing. That is, one that has NOTHING to do with having worked in a foreign country.

 

Make sure your work permit is up to date - more than a few people have been deported for not paying attention to their paperwork.

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Study topics tagged DCF and Domicile

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/tags/forums/DCF/

http://candleforlove.com/forums/tags/forums/Domicile/

 

Also a good one to read through is Bubbahotek's primary DCF thread, it goes from start to interview, he practically asked a question about ever thing imaginable in that thread, result approval at interview.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/topic/44430-living-in-china-and-confused/

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&mid=68758

 

Lastly, DCF tends to have the highest pass rate, only thing that is common is if spouse is or was a member of the CCP for work reasons, this tends to have some extra after interview processing to get the automatic waiver.

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  • 4 weeks later...

1) Ok, we have started assembling the documents we need. We have completed the I-130, G-325A for both of us, G-1145. I have copies of the visas and passport pages that prove I have lived here for 2 years. I also have copies of the bio pages for both of our passports but no birth certificate for either of us. Is that going to be an issue at some point?

 

2) We have our marriage "red books" and will be going to the notary here in Beijing to get the "white book" translations. We were married in Taiyuan but I assume that they can do everything for us here in Beijing, is that correct?

 

3) We both have a previous marriage that ended in divorce. Certainly we must get translations of the divorce decrees. Can this be done at the same place we get the "white books?" Another added problem is that I got married and divorced both in Japan so the information is all in Japanese but I do have a Chinese translation that was done when we got married in Taiyuan. Can I get this or the original Japanese document translated and notarized at the Beijing notary?

 

4) We were married at the beginning of this August which was really soon after my divorce was finalized in May. This was after a long period of separation (about 2 years) from my ex-wife waiting for the Japanese court to make it official. Is this "quick" marriage after a divorce going to cause a lot of red flags? I met my wife shortly after I came to China but have only been in a relationship for about a year and a half. Unfortunately, this overlap between the time we started our relationship and the time the divorce was finalized may cause problems as well, no?

 

5) Finally, we are trying to put together evidence to prove that our marriage is real. Honestly, this seems to be the trickiest part. Despite the fact we have been living together as an "unofficially" married couple for about a year, we have very little official evidence. I just never thought I would need it. We now have marriage certificates as I mentioned, but little else. We live together but the landlord can't/won't register a foreigner as living there so my address is officially at a location about a block away. So no joint bills or cohabitation evidence. We didn't have a wedding because we would prefer to save our money and have an easier transition to America. So no wedding pictures. We both use her bank accounts for everything in China and do our saving and investing in the U.S. I can't figure out a way to prove this by getting my name added to hers or her name added to mine. So no co-mingling of finances. Phone records, emails, letters, etc. don't really contain anything substantial either because we see each other every day. Pictures are the same deal. Many other people on these boards talk about the mountains of transcripts and pictures they have amassed as proof but we never thought to save any of that. What can I do?

 

6) We can get affidavits from the people who know us but do they need to be notarized? If so, how and where? I really don't understand this one at all.

 

Sorry for the long post, I have been really busy getting ready to go to the States in early October and these questions kind of piled up. Any advice would be really appreciated. Also, we would like to file before I go on my business trip but if there is something I can do in America that would improve our chances greatly, I can wait. Is there anything? Thanks a lot.

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The best advice might be to wait until you can gather the additional evidence, especially pictures. Pictures can be taken every day, but a variety of settings over a period of time would be better. Be sure to label each one with the date and time (maybe by including in a Word document).

 

You seem to be in a hurry, but you don't give any indication of what time frame you need to be looking at. Why would you need to file before your trip in October? Including evidence of communication during the trip and 'reunion' shots might help your case. A longer period of time would probably help your case, as well.

 

The best rule of thumb about evidence is to include everything you can reasonably gather - everything else can be left out. No birth certificate is needed for you, but your wife will need one when she files her visa application in Guangzhou. She'll only need her hukou book for this.

 

Remember that every piece of evidence you submit to the USCIS with your I-130 is APPROVED by the USCIS, and then can't be questioned by the Visa Officers in Guangzhou.

 

Yes, the Beijing notary should be able to help you there, but don't expect "notarization" in the American sense. They authenticate Chinese documents. American-style notarization can be done at your consulate or the Embassy - but I don't think anything that you're submitting calls for this. I don't think they'll help with your Japanese divorce decree - maybe Dan will have a good answer here. I believe you'll only need an English translation of it.

 

I wouldn't bother getting the affidavits from friends notarized, unless it's easy to get an American notarization (you would have to pay a fee at the consulate for this). I think we tend to overstate the benefit of notarizations, although there have been cases where the consulate insisted they be notarized.

 

You need to include an Evolution of Relationship letter to explain how your previous marriage ended (and when it ACTUALLY ended), and your new one developed. State events matter of factly, and do not sound like you're making excuses for anything.

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Randy mentioned a letter of Evolution of relationship. I am a big believer in this letter. My letter was 6 or 7 pages...as we were forced into a longer than necessary relationship by the State Department, so I gave them the full story. You can write a picture of how everything went down with your separation to divorce, your relationship with your girlfriend, now wife....the whole story.

 

We also used letters from my wife's family and friends in China...5 letters there, 4 more letters from my sister, daughter, and two friends in America, as well as a letter from my father welcoming my wife into our family. I did not get any of them notarized.

 

With the letters from China my wife took the folk's ID cards to a copy shop and matched each card with each letter having both sides of the ID card copied onto the appropriate letter. Getting the letters in China translated into English...well, my wife and I sat down with each person who agreed to write a letter and we asked them what points they wanted put into their letter and how they saw our relationship in their point of view. I took notes from my wife translating their words and finally took the notes and put them into a letter. Then each person sat down and copied my English writing in their own hand. Or, you can spend hundreds of yuan to get a service to translate their Chinese into English. I said to hell with that.

 

Photos....I sent in photos of myself and Wenyan with her family and friends. All of us smiling and laughing, usually with my arms around her family members. I wrote on the back who each person was. Even sent a photo of my wife holding a mop up against my head and me feigning that she had hit me. My goal was NOT to show that I had been a tourist in China, escorted by some woman, instead I tried to show that I had a close relationship with my wife and her family in their homes. The rest was garbage in my book. I didn't go to China 7 times to run around looking at sights, I went with the single goal of getting to know my wife and her family.

 

I'd say to take your time and get everything lined up for this initial application. You only get one time to send in this important information. They usually don't take ANYTHING new at the interview, so, yes, you need to send in the usual forms, but this is also your only chance to send in the particulars and paint a picture of your whole relationship. Those forms are a given and they show not much of anything as far a a relationship.

 

Good luck.

 

tsap seui

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Thanks for the explanations and advice. I am just kind of concerned about proving our relationship. We never really kept any records or were careful with saving all of our pictures, etc. Most of our pictures were on an old cell phone she gave to her friend and were thus deleted. I have yet to meet her parents but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks. I'm going to make sure I take a lot of pictures then!

 

I'm not sure what else I can do. We just don't have a lot of evidence on paper because we have just been living our lives normally. Recently, though, we have tried to save every ticket and picture. Do we need to print these pictures out or would it be better to submit a USB?

 

I know it's impossible to give a good answer, but what do you think the chances are that we will be outright denied? I am really concerned about that. If we are just asked for more evidence, it's not really a problem, I just don't want to be completely denied or have to fight for years. We aren't really in a rush but I do hope to get back to America with her as soon as possible. I just don't want to screw it up.

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Thanks for the explanations and advice. I am just kind of concerned about proving our relationship. We never really kept any records or were careful with saving all of our pictures, etc. Most of our pictures were on an old cell phone she gave to her friend and were thus deleted. I have yet to meet her parents but will be doing so in the next couple of weeks. I'm going to make sure I take a lot of pictures then!

 

I'm not sure what else I can do. We just don't have a lot of evidence on paper because we have just been living our lives normally. Recently, though, we have tried to save every ticket and picture. Do we need to print these pictures out or would it be better to submit a USB?

 

I know it's impossible to give a good answer, but what do you think the chances are that we will be outright denied? I am really concerned about that. If we are just asked for more evidence, it's not really a problem, I just don't want to be completely denied or have to fight for years. We aren't really in a rush but I do hope to get back to America with her as soon as possible. I just don't want to screw it up.

 

 

Like I've said - a good rule of thumb is to only send the evidence you have - and to not include what you don't have. Anything you can reasonably get is good - don't sweat what isn't (reasonable).

 

No digital/USB files are allowed - just print out what amounts to a reasonable picture of your relationship, with an eye to covering various periods of time.

 

Denials of DCF filings are rare, if ever. Just do a reasonably good job.

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Well, my wife went to the notary office here in Beijing and they refused to give her the "white books" or do anything else. They just told her that she has to go back to Taiyuan where we were married. The people working there were very rude and essentially told her to get out and not bother them anymore. She called me crying because of the way they treated her when she tried to ask for more information. She's not very tough and always avoids conflict; what they did was just uncalled for. It is even more frustrating to hear about others who have just recently gotten everything done without their spouse having to go back to their hometown. Situations like this are why I want to get back to the U.S. asap. Abuse of this sort is rare, things are "generally" decided by law or clear policy rather than guanxi, "gifts" and the mood of the bureaucrat; anyway I can be the one to deal with these things instead of her.

 

I know everybody on this website had to have had loads of patience to get through the whole process and we will need it too. The support and information here is so much more useful and encouraging than from any other "official" channel. So I guess we have to head to Taiyuan, both of us or just her? Is there no way to get it done in Beijing?

 

Also, I still am not really clear on what I need to do regarding the Japanese divorce certificate. It is really simple, only 1 page, but it is in Japanese. What should I do in order to have it accepted by USCIS?

 

The pictures, sworn affidavits and Evolution of Relationship letter are being prepared now, thanks for all of the suggestions!

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