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Rumor Control: "New" US Citizens to lose local China ID cards.


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This is in the People's Daily today - notice that it's directed at fighting corruption - NOT those who simply move overseas without lugging huge sums of cash - although it's unclear what this means for our loved ones who get green cards.

 

Notice that it says "their local hukou that allow them to benefit from welfare services, such as medical insurance, pensions and children's education."

 

Police focus on emigrants who still have their hukou

 

Those who have obtained residency permits or citizenship abroad but have not cancelled their Chinese household registrations - especially if they face allegations of corruption - will become an even greater focus of police investigations, in the latest measure in the fight against graft, the Ministry of Public Security said.

 

"If evidence is uncovered, they may face departure restrictions if they return to China to visit family members," a senior official from the ministry, who requested anonymity, told China Daily.

Police will examine bank accounts and financial transactions as well as input from the public, he said.

 

It is mandatory for Chinese citizens who settle in other countries to cancel their household registrations, or hukou, before emigrating.

 

. . .

 

According to Beijing Hezhong, a company that facilitates migration services, it has seen an annual 20 percent increase since 2011 in the number of Chinese citizens applying for the EB-5 investment immigration program in the US, with about 500 to 600 applicants each year.

 

In July, the ministry appealed to the public to volunteer information regarding emigrants maintaining their hukou.

 

From 2013 to June 2014, the ministry cancelled 1.06 million hukou that were still illegally registered by Chinese citizens.

 

 

 

I would caution anyone whose spouse has a green card or citizenship and still has their hukou registration to MAKE SURE OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING before canceling their hukou. That is, make sure that it actually is required.

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How would you suggest they do this, Randy? Check with the Chinese embassy? Contact their local PSB where their Hukou is registered? My guess is that you might get different answers in different places - PSB in one locale may say yes, it is required, while PSB in another locale might say just the opposite. At least that was our experience when we had questions about things when living in China.

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How would you suggest they do this, Randy? Check with the Chinese embassy? Contact their local PSB where their Hukou is registered? My guess is that you might get different answers in different places - PSB in one locale may say yes, it is required, while PSB in another locale might say just the opposite. At least that was our experience when we had questions about things when living in China.

 

I see it as exactly what the article states - a corruption fighting tool, and not really applicable to our spouses. I would recommend not doing anything, unless you hear more about it. Remember that just by asking, you are potentially notifying them as to your status.

 

Just being aware can help keep the rumors in line, and help you figure out what to do when the time comes.

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This is in the People's Daily today - notice that it's directed at fighting corruption - NOT those who simply move overseas without lugging huge sums of cash - although it's unclear what this means for our loved ones who get green cards.

 

Notice that it says "their local hukou that allow them to benefit from welfare services, such as medical insurance, pensions and children's education."

 

Police focus on emigrants who still have their hukou

 

Those who have obtained residency permits or citizenship abroad but have not cancelled their Chinese household registrations - especially if they face allegations of corruption - will become an even greater focus of police investigations, in the latest measure in the fight against graft, the Ministry of Public Security said.

 

"If evidence is uncovered, they may face departure restrictions if they return to China to visit family members," a senior official from the ministry, who requested anonymity, told China Daily.

Police will examine bank accounts and financial transactions as well as input from the public, he said.

 

It is mandatory for Chinese citizens who settle in other countries to cancel their household registrations, or hukou, before emigrating.

 

. . .

 

According to Beijing Hezhong, a company that facilitates migration services, it has seen an annual 20 percent increase since 2011 in the number of Chinese citizens applying for the EB-5 investment immigration program in the US, with about 500 to 600 applicants each year.

 

In July, the ministry appealed to the public to volunteer information regarding emigrants maintaining their hukou.

 

From 2013 to June 2014, the ministry cancelled 1.06 million hukou that were still illegally registered by Chinese citizens.

 

 

 

I would caution anyone whose spouse has a green card or citizenship and still has their hukou registration to MAKE SURE OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING before canceling their hukou. That is, make sure that it actually is required.

 

What i don't understand is why would one want to cancel the hukou in the first place?

Second, Is this going to cause problems anytime my wife and I decide to visit her family in Chongqing.

 

My wife only has 10 GC and still has hukou book.

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This is in the People's Daily today - notice that it's directed at fighting corruption - NOT those who simply move overseas without lugging huge sums of cash - although it's unclear what this means for our loved ones who get green cards.

 

Notice that it says "their local hukou that allow them to benefit from welfare services, such as medical insurance, pensions and children's education."

 

Police focus on emigrants who still have their hukou

 

Those who have obtained residency permits or citizenship abroad but have not cancelled their Chinese household registrations - especially if they face allegations of corruption - will become an even greater focus of police investigations, in the latest measure in the fight against graft, the Ministry of Public Security said.

 

"If evidence is uncovered, they may face departure restrictions if they return to China to visit family members," a senior official from the ministry, who requested anonymity, told China Daily.

Police will examine bank accounts and financial transactions as well as input from the public, he said.

 

It is mandatory for Chinese citizens who settle in other countries to cancel their household registrations, or hukou, before emigrating.

 

. . .

 

According to Beijing Hezhong, a company that facilitates migration services, it has seen an annual 20 percent increase since 2011 in the number of Chinese citizens applying for the EB-5 investment immigration program in the US, with about 500 to 600 applicants each year.

 

In July, the ministry appealed to the public to volunteer information regarding emigrants maintaining their hukou.

 

From 2013 to June 2014, the ministry cancelled 1.06 million hukou that were still illegally registered by Chinese citizens.

 

 

 

I would caution anyone whose spouse has a green card or citizenship and still has their hukou registration to MAKE SURE OF WHAT THEY'RE DOING before canceling their hukou. That is, make sure that it actually is required.

 

What i don't understand is why would one want to cancel the hukou in the first place?

Second, Is this going to cause problems anytime my wife and I decide to visit her family in Chongqing.

 

My wife only has 10 GC and still has hukou book.

 

 

 

The thing to be AWARE of is right there in the People's Daily article.

 

Those who have obtained residency permits or citizenship abroad but have not cancelled their Chinese household registrations - especially if they face allegations of corruption - will become an even greater focus of police investigations, in the latest measure in the fight against graft, the Ministry of Public Security said.

 

. . .

 

It is mandatory for Chinese citizens who settle in other countries to cancel their household registrations, or hukou, before emigrating.

 

 

If this "fight" is extended to ordinary citizens such as your wife, I expect we'll hear about it.

 

I still recommend doing nothing.

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  • 2 weeks later...

More discussion on the issue in the Global Times - still somewhat ambiguous for our spouses who only hold green cards

 

Passport switch - Authorities tighten control on illegal dual citizenship

In light of the chaotic citizenship situation, China has vowed to strengthen its control over the issue. The Ministry of Public Security (MPS) launched an online tip-off platform regarding household registration (or hukou) problems in July. Whistle-blowers are also encouraged to report about dual citizenship.

Chinese people who have obtained foreign citizenship and fail to cancel their hukou face the risk of being barred from leaving China if they return, reports said.

 

. . .

 

To facilitate the exit-entry procedure, the MPS issued a notice in 2003, allowing those who stayed overseas for more than one year to keep their hukou, but those who settled down overseas had to give it up.

 

. . .

 

While tougher dual citizenship measures are expected for anti-corruption, others are anticipating more relaxed ones.

Chen Sijin, a risk investment consultant who got Canadian nationality in 2001, told the Legal Weekly that attempts to invest in the "motherland" often meet obstacles.

Several members of the national committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) have also made proposals related to further relaxing the regulation on dual citizenship.

A home return permit could be issued to overseas Chinese to help with the current situation, similar to the permit issued to compatriots in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macao, Ren suggested. "However, such policy should not be applied to officials. It is not only a matter of political security and loyalty, but more of prevention of more corruption."

 

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  • 1 month later...

Here's a story from someone who DIDN'T maintain their Chinese ID - and returned to China for a visit after six years overseas, using only her passport as an ID.

 

Trust requires understanding on both sides

"Ma'am," a very polite baby-faced receptionist frowned while she was flipping through my passport, "where is your visa page?"

This sounds like a reasonable question, except that my passport was issued by the Chinese consulate in New York. About 10 minutes and a few supervisors later, I finally convinced them that a Chinese citizen doesn't need a visa to come back to her own country.

Problem solved, I checked myself in without knowing that was only the beginning.

 

. . .

Some demanded that I present my American green card. One even initially asked me to go to the local police precinct in person to get approval to stay in the hotel. Many of them kindly told me to get a foreign passport or use a Chinese ID card to avoid trouble next time.

. . .

Many overseas Chinese, myself included, would like to maintain our Chinese citizenship, but our Chinese resident's ID may have long expired. The Chinese passport is the only ID that proves our Chinese identity.

The skepticism about the credibility of this document in China only leads to a heartbreaking conclusion - that living abroad, we are no longer trusted by the system in our home country.

. . .

The author is a New York-based journalist. rong_xiaoqing@hotmail.com

Posted in: Columnists, Viewpoint

 

 

 

It seems to me that the message is fairly clear - you need to maintain your Chinese ID, that a Chinese passport by itself is not widely accepted as an ID within China.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Another article on the subject in the Global Times, although not much is said about what foreign passport holders might actually expect, and some concerns some have about what might happen if their hukou is cancelled

 

Overseas Chinese worried about strict new checks on dual citizenship

 

There are about five or six individual stories - I'm only quoting one here

 

Duo Ge, a Chinese-American who has lived Washington DC for eight years, told the Global Times that he was worried that his pension would be gone if he cancelled his Beijing residency, and fretted that he might run into trouble in dealing with his property in China.

Since some members of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) were identified as possible foreign nationals, the new regulation on tightening checks for dual citizenship was announced on July 15, focusing on catching on corrupt officials fleeing overseas. Choosing to hold a foreign nationality does not mean one is less patriotic, and overseas Chinese all wish China well, said Ge, adding that they hoped that government could hear more voices from the public and provide more convenient policies for people living outside the homeland.

Chinese Premier Li Keqiang said during his September visit to the Shanghai Pilot Free Trade Zone that the zone should come up with a way to smooth the application process for foreigners to obtain Chinese green cards.

 

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  • 7 months later...

Just a few points:

 

1. U.S. government is mute on dual citizenship, at best it does not encourage it.

2. PRC actively revokes PRC citizenship if their former citizens become naturalized foreign citizens

3. The moment an oath is made, the PRC citizenship is revoked by PRC definition

4. The mass corruptions that are on newspaper these days. Most officials/criminals have overseas ties or citizenship

5. If PRC government can really effectively compare notes with other foreign countries on the naturalized Chinese nationals, you wouldn't think they already done it quietly? and why would US government wants to share that info?

6. Now if you need a new Chinese visa for the first time, the requirement is to submit your old PRC passport so they can cancel it because of #3 above.

7. The Gong An (DPS) and Foreign Affairs appear to not share their database as of now. Unless you get caught by DPS, you don't need to cancel your ID which is a separate system from passport (so far). There used to be a requirement to cancel your ID before you can be granted permission to leave the country; that was relaxed in 2005.

8. That's why the DPS is running a campaign asking people to report to authority any dual citizenship violators

9. With the 10-year visa PRC issues now. the entering/exit through a third country/territory is really unnecessary and expensive.

10. Unless you are so stupid to let DPS learn that you are a foreign country citizen which I understand is a national bragging right, you get to keep your ID until such time that either the PRC government get the political will to merge their systems or someone turns you in.

11. No one knows if or when China will adopt a dual citizenship policy because the mass exodus of brain power and capitals or to tighten its enforcement by systematically looking through the passport holders' exit/enter records. So the moral is that you lost your Chinese citizenship when you acquire another country's citizenship. The nation Huko and ID are the blindspots . IF you keep your citizenship situation close to you chest, you get to keep huko and ID Don't try to use an invalid green card or a Chinese passport, the consequence is far more severe than dancing around the grey area of ID issue.

Edited by jonathantwu (see edit history)
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  • 8 months later...

Just a few points:

 

1. U.S. government is mute on dual citizenship, at best it does not encourage it.

2. PRC actively revokes PRC citizenship if their former citizens become naturalized foreign citizens

3. The moment an oath is made, the PRC citizenship is revoked by PRC definition

4. The mass corruptions that are on newspaper these days. Most officials/criminals have overseas ties or citizenship

5. If PRC government can really effectively compare notes with other foreign countries on the naturalized Chinese nationals, you wouldn't think they already done it quietly? and why would US government wants to share that info?

6. Now if you need a new Chinese visa for the first time, the requirement is to submit your old PRC passport so they can cancel it because of #3 above.

7. The Gong An (DPS) and Foreign Affairs appear to not share their database as of now. Unless you get caught by DPS, you don't need to cancel your ID which is a separate system from passport (so far). There used to be a requirement to cancel your ID before you can be granted permission to leave the country; that was relaxed in 2005.

8. That's why the DPS is running a campaign asking people to report to authority any dual citizenship violators

9. With the 10-year visa PRC issues now. the entering/exit through a third country/territory is really unnecessary and expensive.

10. Unless you are so stupid to let DPS learn that you are a foreign country citizen which I understand is a national bragging right, you get to keep your ID until such time that either the PRC government get the political will to merge their systems or someone turns you in.

11. No one knows if or when China will adopt a dual citizenship policy because the mass exodus of brain power and capitals or to tighten its enforcement by systematically looking through the passport holders' exit/enter records. So the moral is that you lost your Chinese citizenship when you acquire another country's citizenship. The nation Huko and ID are the blindspots . IF you keep your citizenship situation close to you chest, you get to keep huko and ID Don't try to use an invalid green card or a Chinese passport, the consequence is far more severe than dancing around the grey area of ID issue.

 

 

1. The US is not mute on dual citizenship. It simply does not recognize it and for any position that requires a security clearance, you must renounce the foreign citizenship. Entering on a second passport won't afford you any benefits, no real penalties or fines, but you will not be given consular rights.

2. YEP.

3. YEP

4. No, most of them are just enemies of Xi, this is not a corruption purge, it's a political purge

5. They can't do shit, but they definitely gather info from the airlines and they are now scanning passports and retaining data and stamps

6. YEP

7. They are most certainly requiring hukous to be nuked before you are allowed to leave the country.

8. This is more about encouraging spying and ratting each other out

9. There are reasons this is done, it becomes MUCH harder if you are not living in China though.

10. Oh, the system most certainly can check and verify that information. The IDs have RFID in them and are being scanned to bring up centralized records. Anything that requires it will soon be locked out... banking, hotels, city services, etc.

11. No chance for dual citizenship at all. The instant you leave China on a US green card you are flagged in the system now. Upon return you will be required to cancel hukou before you are allowed to leave.

Edited by mjtaylor (see edit history)
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11. No chance for dual citizenship at all. The instant you leave China on a US green card you are flagged in the system now. Upon return you will be required to cancel hukou before you are allowed to leave.

Not exactly correct, a green-card holder is still a Chinese Citizen, only one with residency in the USA, they would not require canceling hukou if still a chinese Citizen. Only after naturalizing and becoming a US Citizen would they do so.

 

Once my wife naturalized, she was required to send her Chinese Passport in with her American Passport when she applied for her first visit visa to China, at that point the canceled her Chinese Passport and probably canceled her hukou too.

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There doesn't seem to be a connection in MOST cases back to the hukou of someone who has attained foreign registry or citizenship. That is, they seem to let it go at canceling the Chinese passport of those who apply for a Chinese visa in their new American passport. More than one person has reported that their hukou was still active after an American passport was used.

 

Still, the People's Daily article linked to above is something to be aware of.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/topic/45239-rumor-control-new-us-citizens-to-lose-local-china-id-cards/?p=615527

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11. No chance for dual citizenship at all. The instant you leave China on a US green card you are flagged in the system now. Upon return you will be required to cancel hukou before you are allowed to leave.

Not exactly correct, a green-card holder is still a Chinese Citizen, only one with residency in the USA, they would not require canceling hukou if still a chinese Citizen. Only after naturalizing and becoming a US Citizen would they do so.

 

Once my wife naturalized, she was required to send her Chinese Passport in with her American Passport when she applied for her first visit visa to China, at that point the canceled her Chinese Passport and probably canceled her hukou too.

 

Yes, a green card holder is still a chinese citizen. Hukou is required by law to be cancelled within 30 days of acquiring another citizenship or permanent residence elsewhere. Hukou is not citizenship, hukou is residence. Pensions and benefits are based on residency, not on citizenship. A green card is seen the same as 迁户口. Upon renewing a passport, one must provide some sort of evidence that they have no naturalized elsewhere. You can enter China on a passport that has a green card sticker in it, but in order to leave again you will be required to present evidence of cancelling the hukou or giving up the green card. Ways around it, sure, but that's the law.

 

Cancelling a hukou is not a permanent thing, and can be restored.

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  • 6 months later...

"Upon renewing a passport, one must provide some sort of evidence that they have no naturalized elsewhere."

 

 

 

How to disapprove a negative? Like I have to prove that I didn't do something illegal. That's not logical.

 

I am still of the opinion that Chinese Foreign Affairs and Domestic Public Security are not talking or share information on a large scale at this moment based on empirical information. Again, just an opinion.

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