Evolution of Relationship

[david_dawei]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

[djwalker60]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

 

 

but what tools? The US Consulate in Guangzhou really makes me nervous very much. It is almost as if they do not want people to be together. Almost as if they have side bets as to how many they can deny in a day.. what a place...

[ShaQuaNew]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

 

 

but what tools? The US Consulate in Guangzhou really makes me nervous very much. It is almost as if they do not want people to be together. Almost as if they have side bets as to how many they can deny in a day.. what a place...

 

The tools of dotting "i's" and crossing "t's."

 

You must view the goal from the perspective of the US government. They are clear in their requirements as to what can be accepted as proof of a bona fide relationship. The issues that often arise are:

 

1. Absence of a common language. That means, if you can't speak Chinese, and she can't speak English. If this is the case, you'll need to use alternative and creative methods to illustrate how the two of you communicate. Just saying we love each other won't cut it with the judges.

 

2. Proof you've met and been places together. Verbal, no good. You need photos and receipts. Keep a daily log book writing notes of where you went, and what you did. Have others take pictures of you while you're there. Label the photos and receipts. Always get a receipt or "fapiao."

 

3. Draft a comprehensive "Evolution of Relationship" letter. Include dates and cross references to events, conversations, and visits. Cross reference your evidence. Squishy talk in this document is not helpful. Just the facts.

Edited February 12, 2010 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[Dennis143]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

 

 

but what tools? The US Consulate in Guangzhou really makes me nervous very much. It is almost as if they do not want people to be together. Almost as if they have side bets as to how many they can deny in a day.. what a place...

 

The tools of dotting "i's" and crossing "t's."

 

You must view the goal from the perspective of the US government. They are clear in their requirements as to what can be accepted as proof of a bona fide relationship. The issues that often arise are:

 

1. Absence of a common language. That means, if you can't speak Chinese, and she can't speak English. If this is the case, you'll need to use alternative and creative methods to illustrate how the two of you communicate. Just saying we love each other won't cut it with the judges.

 

2. Proof you've met and been places together. Verbal, no good. You need photos and receipts. Keep a daily log book writing notes of where you went, and what you did. Have others take pictures of you while you're there. Label the photos and receipts. Always get a receipt or "fapiao."

 

3. Draft a comprehensive "Evolution of Relationship" letter. Include dates and cross references to events, conversations, and visits. Cross reference your evidence. Squishy talk in this document is not helpful. Just the facts.

and, front load all of these with your initial filing.

[djwalker60]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

 

 

but what tools? The US Consulate in Guangzhou really makes me nervous very much. It is almost as if they do not want people to be together. Almost as if they have side bets as to how many they can deny in a day.. what a place...

 

The tools of dotting "i's" and crossing "t's."

 

You must view the goal from the perspective of the US government. They are clear in their requirements as to what can be accepted as proof of a bona fide relationship. The issues that often arise are:

 

1. Absence of a common language. That means, if you can't speak Chinese, and she can't speak English. If this is the case, you'll need to use alternative and creative methods to illustrate how the two of you communicate. Just saying we love each other won't cut it with the judges.

 

2. Proof you've met and been places together. Verbal, no good. You need photos and receipts. Keep a daily log book writing notes of where you went, and what you did. Have others take pictures of you while you're there. Label the photos and receipts. Always get a receipt or "fapiao."

 

3. Draft a comprehensive "Evolution of Relationship" letter. Include dates and cross references to events, conversations, and visits. Cross reference your evidence. Squishy talk in this document is not helpful. Just the facts.

and, front load all of these with your initial filing.

 

I submitted all of that with my 4" and 8lbs of paper and over 60 photos and more..

[TLB]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

 

 

Hey David, could you expand upon this? Specifically, what you mean by "'time' is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way" and "other radar issues".

 

Thanks for your time and so frequent and helpful contributions!

[david_dawei]

I don't necessarily disagree.. good documentation goes a long way.

 

My point is simply a different one; that "time" is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way, IMO, and causes problems. I think there are a few other radar issues but I won't go there.

 

The last year (almost two years) of increased denials shows a shift in GUZ way of reviewing cases. So I think we have to continue to look outside of the basic box of tools employed.

 

 

but what tools? The US Consulate in Guangzhou really makes me nervous very much. It is almost as if they do not want people to be together. Almost as if they have side bets as to how many they can deny in a day.. what a place...

I think jesse answered this aspect very well. The "tools" are those things which you are in control of and not just should but 'must' really get right; There is some room to over or under do it, but there must be some focus as to the petition; as Dennis rightly chimed in, it must go with the petition.

 

But as a gemini... ... I have the right to think with two minds and two ways; so I see it as two sides of a coin, co-existing and co-dependent. There is a clear understand and a not-so-clear understanding of what they want. The latter is very elusive and hard to articulate since it's like an omeba flexing in the GUZ waters, called a VO by another name.

 

Because the former issue is easy to define, even though most don't pay enough attention early on (but you do); I'm more interested in the latter more undefinable aspect. It's almost existential if you ask me.

[david_dawei]

Hey David, could you expand upon this? Specifically, what you mean by "'time' is a wildcard that is played too often the wrong way" and "other radar issues".

 

Thanks for your time and so frequent and helpful contributions!

I just posted in your other thread about this to some degree. I don't know how to answer it without going off in tangents. But I said in the other thread (put differently here, otherwise I am just repeating myself):

 

Those who worry about bringing someone over to the US are combating "time" as an antagonist. Most want to meet and file in quick order. While this works at times and more so in the past, it is for the last two years not a very tasteful recipe for GUZ. It's also not very good for the relationship but I don't think anyone really cares to discuss that since "waiting" becomes too psychological at times. Let's leave that aside.

 

A "bona-fide relationship" is one which GUZ (defined through their eyes, not ours) says came about and is pursued for natural reasons. That's my loose layman's opinion and definition. While we all like to think that we cannot do without the other "soulmate" we've just meet, if fate is to bring us together then "time" is irrelevant on some level. Enuf said.

 

My "radar issues" come from being on this board for over 5 years and and always keeping a close eye on the way of GUZ. I'm not sure I want to comment too much on them. these are just issues which I feel are an issue to GUZ; at least enough that they seem to deny more with these issues.

 

1. fast relationships; this is the "time" factor. No shortage of these.

2. bad documentation; this is the "duh" factor. No excuse for these.

3. petitioner is of asian descent; this is the "fraud factor". No escaping this.

4. Income issues; this is the "omeba" factor. No rhythm or reason at times.

5. prior marriages; this is the "trying again" factor. No avoiding this for some.

 

A number of years ago, I presented what I called my "brownie points" approach to filing; one needs to build up as many 'brownie points' as possible to be successful. It starts before you meet anyone, with your own attitude about "time"... extents to accepting the reasons for pursuing a relationship even if of the "try again" or "asian" crowd. And a realistic understanding of one's ability to navigate the "omeba" waves. Once one files, we are in a "duh" phase a long time; don't get it wrong.

 

The problem is; too many are in what we call the "fantasy" phase from beginning to end, mixed with uncertainty, doubt, and 8 months of posting questions. Most of the time the response should be "get a life" or "are you really equipped for this" or "why are you even doing this"... instead we inflate their self-esteem and deflect their worries so they can feel better and not think too much... until the next post question.

 

I have a litmus test for all... at least it's only applicable to those considering the process.

1. Ask your 'better half' is they can wait 3 years for being together. Note how long they answer and how many questions they ask.

2. Now, pretend they asked you this... how do you respond and how fast?

 

I'm going to guess that most issues are on the USC side.. and that is my overall point here. There is a whole "pretend" factor which I have never talked about but I see that in alarming numbers as I talk to chinese... but USCs cannot believe is so. So, let us pretend what we want and file. Good luck may be the only common word we all share.

 

I have ranted a bit... but I leave in a few days for Chinese New year and don't need to answer