Introduction and some questions

[thelocaldialect]

Hello all

 

I'm new here and have some questions, but first I'd like to introduce myself and dgive some background info ... from reading up on past threads, it seems like my situation is a bit different from that of the majority of the posters here! I'm and American woman married to a Chinese man -- we've been married for three years and I've been living in China for almost seven. My husband and I met and married in Kunming, where I lived for about five years (he's a Yunnan native), but we now live in Beijing and will have been here for two years in April. We have two kids, a son who is two and a daughter who is just one month old. I teach high school in Beijing and my husband is a professional musician (a singer/guitarist).

 

We have a pretty good life here in Beijing and aren't entirely sure we want to move back to the States, but if we do, we'd like to move when my son starts elementary school, in about 4 years. However, I would like my husband to visit the States before we make any final decisions, to see how we both feel about life there. I already know that I can handle China, like I said, I've lived here for seven years, four of those being before I was married (my husband and I actually met in 2004, but did not start dating until 2006, and married later the same year!). While I speak near-fluent Chinese (I studied it in uni as part of my major), my husband does not speak English. We communicate entirely in Chinese. His lack of language ability plus his career as a musician make us both nervous about moving over -- he will certainly have a hard time finding a job, and supporting our family on my salary alone in America would be difficult (in contrast, in China I make very good money currently, better than the average foreign teacher). So we do not want to rush into any committment to a life in America when we might not be able to have the quality of life over there that we have in China now. But regardless of whether we eventually move to the States or not, I do need to bring him back for at least a vist. My parents have visited us in China 3 times, but my younger brother has only made the trip once, and I have aunts, uncles and cousins in America who are all dying to meet my husband and kids.

 

So with all that in mind, here's my visa question. It seems to me that getting a tourist visa for my husband to visit the States would be out of the question, for my husband's ties to China are not substantial. His parents are both dead, he doesn't have permanent employment, we don't own an apartment here, don't have a huge amount of capital ... it would be futile I'm sure to even apply. So if I want my husband to even visit the States, we have to apply for, or at least start the process for a greencard. Since we've been married for more than 2 years I gather he's eligible for an immediate 10 year green card. But if my husband is issued a greencard, that means we can't live in China, right? Is it plausible to get him a greencard and then continue living in China? Or would it be better to apply first for the k3 visa, use it for two years, and then decide? What if, after using the k3 visa we decide not to immigrate to America? Will that affect later visa/greencard applications? So I suppose my question is, what visa should we apply for given our situation, and in what timeframe, given a five year deadline on making an ultimate decision as to where to live (we could decide earlier, but much later than that and I worry about schooling issues for my son)?

 

Thanks in advance for any help. I'd like to stick around here, hopefully I can offer some help in return, especially regarding China and life on the other side.

[Kyle]

You could at least try to apply for a tourist visa since you have not yet tried for a K3 or IR visa. It may be worth a shot because a B-2 is much cheaper than the k3 or IR processes. If you have concerns about lifestyle adjustment, this may be the way to go. Unfortunately you cannot gain employment on a B-2.

 

Chinese green card holders aren't American citizens - they're Chinese citizens. You can live in China if you want to, but you do risk giving up your legal permanent status if you travel outside the united states for longer than six months. He won't receive a green card until he enters America, so he'll have to at least cross a port of entry before he returns to China. Here's a link with some good information:

 

http://www.antaoandchuang.com/i-keeping.html

 

As for as the K3 route, I cannot give advice either way - since we did go the immigration route. If I was in your shoes, I would highly recommend first trying for a B-2 visa. The wait and expense of applying for a tourist visa is a fraction of the total wait and cost for an IR-1/K1/K3. This is what my wife and I did, before going through the immigration process ourselves. Again all of this is just my opinion

Edited January 6, 2010 by Kyle (see edit history)

[thelocaldialect]

Thanks Kyle ... I realize a greencard doesn't make you a citizen, my concern was as you stated, that it could be revoked, or not renewed after 10 years, if we didn't actually use it to live in America. I guess this isn't a given though, if I understand correctly, but just a possibility and up to the discretion of the USCIS? I do have a friend who has been living in China for about 15 years with his Chinese wife who has a greencard and he had to find some sort of loophole (I think something to do with the residency requirement not applying to missionaries, and he got ordained as a minister online in order to take advantage of this if I recall correctly) in order for his wife to keep his greencard when it came up for renewal 5 years ago.

 

We'll consider the tourist visa possibility. I had heard that having a rejection from a b-2 on your record could make getting other visas more difficult later on, but maybe I shouldn't worry about that and should just apply and see what happens.

[Randy W]

There is no problem with abandoning your greencard (by living in China), or applying for a new visa afterward.

[dnoblett]

Thanks Kyle ... I realize a greencard doesn't make you a citizen, my concern was as you stated, that it could be revoked, or not renewed after 10 years, if we didn't actually use it to live in America. I guess this isn't a given though, if I understand correctly, but just a possibility and up to the discretion of the USCIS? I do have a friend who has been living in China for about 15 years with his Chinese wife who has a greencard and he had to find some sort of loophole (I think something to do with the residency requirement not applying to missionaries, and he got ordained as a minister online in order to take advantage of this if I recall correctly) in order for his wife to keep his greencard when it came up for renewal 5 years ago.

 

We'll consider the tourist visa possibility. I had heard that having a rejection from a b-2 on your record could make getting other visas more difficult later on, but maybe I shouldn't worry about that and should just apply and see what happens.

A green-card is for residence in the USA not in China, it is NOT a "permanent visa", any period of stay outside of the USA can be determined to be abandoning US residency and the Green-card can be revoked.

 

You may lose your permanent resident status (green card) if you commit an act that makes you removable from the United States under the law, as described in Section 237 or 212 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) (see the ¡°INA¡± link to the right). If you commit such an act, you may be brought before an immigration court to determine your right to remain a permanent resident.

Abandoning Permanent Resident Status

 

 

You may be found to have abandoned your permanent resident status if you:

• Move to another country intending to live there permanently
   
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 1 year without obtaining a reentry permit or returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned, any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
   
  
• Remain outside of the United States for more than 2 years after issuance of a reentry permit without obtaining a returning resident visa. However, in determining whether your status has been abandoned any length of absence from the United States may be considered, even if less than 1 year
   
  
• Fail to file income tax returns while living outside of the United States for any period
   
  
• Declare yourself a ¡°nonimmigrant¡± on your tax returns
  

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/men...000082ca60aRCRD

 

Correct there are ways to maintain a green-card while residing abroad, but needs to file additional paperwork like I-131, and N-470 but residing abroad has to be for things like working for the US Government or humanitarian reasons like missionary.

[thelocaldialect]

Thanks, helpful information all.

 

To rant a moment, it bugs me that America doesn't seem to consider the possibility that American citizens might reside in their spouse's country but still want to go home for visits. Tourist visas to the USA are not easy for Chinese citizens to obtain, and ironically they seem even more difficult to obtain if you're married to the tourist. So if I want to bring my husband back to my country for a short visit, but we don't intend to immigrate, what do we do, assuming he's denied a tourist visa (which is a distinct possibility)? The immigrant visa process is so costly and time consuming that doing it if we're not positive we want to immigrate seems to be a huge waste.

 

The Chinese side isn't much better though. While the USA seems to assume we all want greencards for our spouses, the Chinese government didn't even offer permanent residency based on marriage -- or permanent residency at all -- until a few years ago, and even now they're fairly impossible to actually obtain. While I can't get my husband a tourist visa for America, a tourist visa (for "visiting relatives") is all my marriage will get me in China!

[dnoblett]

Thanks, helpful information all.

 

To rant a moment, it bugs me that America doesn't seem to consider the possibility that American citizens might reside in their spouse's country but still want to go home for visits. Tourist visas to the USA are not easy for Chinese citizens to obtain, and ironically they seem even more difficult to obtain if you're married to the tourist. So if I want to bring my husband back to my country for a short visit, but we don't intend to immigrate, what do we do, assuming he's denied a tourist visa (which is a distinct possibility)? The immigrant visa process is so costly and time consuming that doing it if we're not positive we want to immigrate seems to be a huge waste.

 

The Chinese side isn't much better though. While the USA seems to assume we all want greencards for our spouses, the Chinese government didn't even offer permanent residency based on marriage -- or permanent residency at all -- until a few years ago, and even now they're fairly impossible to actually obtain. While I can't get my husband a tourist visa for America, a tourist visa (for "visiting relatives") is all my marriage will get me in China!

You show that YOU have strong ties to China, YOUR JOB, etc and that YOU intend to return to YOUR job. Lay this out for the consulate, they understand that immigrations is not an intent when US Citizen has work in China.

[Stepbrow]

Welcome to CFL. The other guys have given you good information. Keep us informed about what you two chose to do. Wishing you best of luck.

[shanghaigale]

One other thing you would probably want to think about to is your children! You didn't say if they have born abroad birth certificates from the consulate in China and have or would obtain American passports before going to the USA. If so you would need to get an exit permit from the Chinese entry exit section but then when you exited China you would have to get them visas just like you have to do, to take them back to china. As long as they have never left china, this is not required and they can basically stay in China forever. If they don't have american citizenship then they would have to obtain chinese passports and get visas just like your husband will need. Also green cards if you stayed a long time.

Gale

 

Thanks, helpful information all.

 

To rant a moment, it bugs me that America doesn't seem to consider the possibility that American citizens might reside in their spouse's country but still want to go home for visits. Tourist visas to the USA are not easy for Chinese citizens to obtain, and ironically they seem even more difficult to obtain if you're married to the tourist. So if I want to bring my husband back to my country for a short visit, but we don't intend to immigrate, what do we do, assuming he's denied a tourist visa (which is a distinct possibility)? The immigrant visa process is so costly and time consuming that doing it if we're not positive we want to immigrate seems to be a huge waste.

 

The Chinese side isn't much better though. While the USA seems to assume we all want greencards for our spouses, the Chinese government didn't even offer permanent residency based on marriage -- or permanent residency at all -- until a few years ago, and even now they're fairly impossible to actually obtain. While I can't get my husband a tourist visa for America, a tourist visa (for "visiting relatives") is all my marriage will get me in China!

[Stepbrow]

One other thing you would probably want to think about to is your children! You didn't say if they have born abroad birth certificates from the consulate in China and have or would obtain American passports before going to the USA. If so you would need to get an exit permit from the Chinese entry exit section but then when you exited China you would have to get them visas just like you have to do, to take them back to china. As long as they have never left china, this is not required and they can basically stay in China forever. If they don't have american citizenship then they would have to obtain chinese passports and get visas just like your husband will need. Also green cards if you stayed a long time.

Gale

 

Thanks, helpful information all.

 

To rant a moment, it bugs me that America doesn't seem to consider the possibility that American citizens might reside in their spouse's country but still want to go home for visits. Tourist visas to the USA are not easy for Chinese citizens to obtain, and ironically they seem even more difficult to obtain if you're married to the tourist. So if I want to bring my husband back to my country for a short visit, but we don't intend to immigrate, what do we do, assuming he's denied a tourist visa (which is a distinct possibility)? The immigrant visa process is so costly and time consuming that doing it if we're not positive we want to immigrate seems to be a huge waste.

 

The Chinese side isn't much better though. While the USA seems to assume we all want greencards for our spouses, the Chinese government didn't even offer permanent residency based on marriage -- or permanent residency at all -- until a few years ago, and even now they're fairly impossible to actually obtain. While I can't get my husband a tourist visa for America, a tourist visa (for "visiting relatives") is all my marriage will get me in China!

 

Actually, children born to an American parent are automatically an American citizen. She just needs to file the appropriate paper work to get the passports etc.

[Jeff n Jianli]

I think your chances for your husband to get a tourist visa is higher than you think. If he fails to get the visa it will not hurt his chances for getting other types of visas in the future. My wife tried to get a tourist visa and failed but had no problem with the K1. It is my understanding that it is much harder for a chinese woman to get a work or tourist visa than a chinese man.

[shanghaigale]

One other thing you would probably want to think about to is your children! You didn't say if they have born abroad birth certificates from the consulate in China and have or would obtain American passports before going to the USA. If so you would need to get an exit permit from the Chinese entry exit section but then when you exited China you would have to get them visas just like you have to do, to take them back to china. As long as they have never left china, this is not required and they can basically stay in China forever. If they don't have american citizenship then they would have to obtain chinese passports and get visas just like your husband will need. Also green cards if you stayed a long time.

Gale

 

Thanks, helpful information all.

 

To rant a moment, it bugs me that America doesn't seem to consider the possibility that American citizens might reside in their spouse's country but still want to go home for visits. Tourist visas to the USA are not easy for Chinese citizens to obtain, and ironically they seem even more difficult to obtain if you're married to the tourist. So if I want to bring my husband back to my country for a short visit, but we don't intend to immigrate, what do we do, assuming he's denied a tourist visa (which is a distinct possibility)? The immigrant visa process is so costly and time consuming that doing it if we're not positive we want to immigrate seems to be a huge waste.

 

The Chinese side isn't much better though. While the USA seems to assume we all want greencards for our spouses, the Chinese government didn't even offer permanent residency based on marriage -- or permanent residency at all -- until a few years ago, and even now they're fairly impossible to actually obtain. While I can't get my husband a tourist visa for America, a tourist visa (for "visiting relatives") is all my marriage will get me in China!

 

Actually, children born to an American parent are automatically an American citizen. She just needs to file the appropriate paper work to get the passports etc.

 

There are exceptions to the rule though (see below)! You need to apply at the american consulate for a birth abroad certificate and a passport is usually applied for at the same time as the CRBA. Otherwise you have no proof the children are american citizens. Thats what me and my wife did in Shanghai when our daughter was born 8 years ago. This should actually be done within 30 days of the birth or you can actually get into trouble with the chinese government if you don't. They can fine you for not doing it! Below is quotes directly from the Shanghai consulate web site:

 

When should I apply?

 

The CRBA is primary evidence of citizenship and the basis for issuance of a U.S. passport - it is one of the most important documents you can obtain for your child. A U.S. Consular Officer may issue a CRBA to an eligible child upon receipt of an application made by the child's parent(s) or legal guardian(s) any time before the child¡¯s 18th birthday. However, since the Chinese government requires you to obtain a dependent visa within thirty days of your child¡¯s birth, it is best to apply as soon as possible after the birth of your child. The Shanghai Entry and Exit Bureau has recently begun charging fines of up to 1,000 RMB for children who are not registered within 30 days. If you are unable to obtain a U.S. passport in time to meet the 30 day deadline, you may use your child¡¯s Chinese birth certificate to register.

 

Is my child a citizen?

 

A child born outside of the U.S. to two American citizen parents acquires U.S. citizenship as long as one of the parents has resided in the U.S. prior to the child's birth (Immigration and Nationality Act Sec.301©).

 

A child born abroad, in wedlock, with only one American citizen parent, acquires citizenship only when the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for 5 years or more prior to the child's birth, at least 2 of the 5 years occurring after the parent had passed age 14 (Immigration and Nationality Act Sec.301(g)). Please complete the statement of physical presence.

[thelocaldialect]

I swore I replied to this, but I must not have ...

 

My older son has an American passport (actually we didn't get it until he was a year old and the embassy said we should have gotten it sooner, but still gave us his passport and we didn't have any trouble from them or the Chinese). My daughter is just a month old, but we have an appointment to have her passport done later in the month. I think the registration stuff about 1000RMB fines is referring to kids born to foreign/foreign couples in China, since China considers foreign/Chinese kids born in China to be Chinese by default.

 

Since my children are half Chinese the government here actually won't put them on visas until we've left the country on the exit permit that was mentioned before. We have to go back to where my husband's hukou is registered in Yunnan to get the exit permits. We plan on doing that this summer when I have enough time off for us to travel, but we've been down to the Beijing entry/exit authority and they've assured us there is no rush to get this done. The only issue is that until their passports have been used to enter China, the Chinese government still considers my kids Chinese, albeit Chinese without hukous. We discovered all this exit permit stuff when we tried to take a trip to Thailand last year and couldn't becase of the lack of an exit permit for my son.

 

Anyhow, the kids won't be an issue by the time we're ready to go to the States, we're going to do the exit permit ahead of time and just get it out of the way.

[dnoblett]

I swore I replied to this, but I must not have ...

 

My older son has an American passport (actually we didn't get it until he was a year old and the embassy said we should have gotten it sooner, but still gave us his passport and we didn't have any trouble from them or the Chinese). My daughter is just a month old, but we have an appointment to have her passport done later in the month. I think the registration stuff about 1000RMB fines is referring to kids born to foreign/foreign couples in China, since China considers foreign/Chinese kids born in China to be Chinese by default.

 

Since my children are half Chinese the government here actually won't put them on visas until we've left the country on the exit permit that was mentioned before. We have to go back to where my husband's hukou is registered in Yunnan to get the exit permits. We plan on doing that this summer when I have enough time off for us to travel, but we've been down to the Beijing entry/exit authority and they've assured us there is no rush to get this done. The only issue is that until their passports have been used to enter China, the Chinese government still considers my kids Chinese, albeit Chinese without hukous. We discovered all this exit permit stuff when we tried to take a trip to Thailand last year and couldn't becase of the lack of an exit permit for my son.

 

Anyhow, the kids won't be an issue by the time we're ready to go to the States, we're going to do the exit permit ahead of time and just get it out of the way.

You did, it was split off because it became a topic all it's own.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40194

[thelocaldialect]

Aha! Mystery solved.