Jump to content


Photo

Getting a bank account with no SSN


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 shadeOgray

shadeOgray

    Dont call me Barbie in front of the Marines

  • Members
  • 1,034 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 11:36 AM

http://www.ustreas.g...eases/js335.htm

Mr Lee and my self digging around came up with some information regarding a banks unlawful and un reasonable demand of an SSN from a foreign national to open up a bank account.
The link above (courtesy of Lee) from the Department of the Treasury under the guidance of the Patriot Act states very clearly the banks are under no obligation to acquire an SSN from a foreign national. That a passport will do just fine.


April 30, 2003
JS-335

Treasury and Federal Financial Regulators Issue Final
Patriot Act Regulations on Customer Identification

The Department of the Treasury, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, and the seven federal financial regulators today issued final rules that require certain financial institutions to establish procedures to verify the identity of new account holders.

The rules announced today were developed jointly by the Treasury Department, Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, and the seven federal functional regulators, including the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, the National Credit Union Administration, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, the Office of Thrift Supervision, and the Securities and Exchange Commission.

These regulations are part of the Administration’s continuing work to implement the USA Patriot Act and prevent money laundering, terrorist financing, identity theft, and other forms of fraud while also providing financial institutions the flexibility they need to effectively implement the rules.

These final regulations implement section 326 of the USA PATRIOT Act, which directs that regulations be issued requiring that financial institutions implement reasonable procedures to (1) verify the identity of any person opening an account; (2) maintain records of the information used to verify the person’s identity; and (3) determine whether the person appears on any list of known or suspected terrorists or terrorist organizations.

The regulations apply to banks and trust companies, savings associations, credit unions, securities brokers and dealers, mutual funds, futures commission merchants, and futures introducing brokers.

Institutions subject to the final rules will be required to establish a program for obtaining identifying information from customers opening new accounts. The regulations will require that institutions implement procedures for collecting standard information such as a customer’s name, address, date of birth and a taxpayer identification number (for U.S. persons, typically a social security number and for non-U.S. persons, a similar number from a government-issued document).

A financial institution’s program is also required, among other things, to contain procedures to verify the identity of customers within a reasonable period of time. Many financial institutions may rely on examining standard identification such as a driver’s license or passport. However, the final rule gives financial institutions the flexibility to implement procedures to verify identity in other ways appropriate to their individual circumstances.

Financial institutions will have until October 1, 2003, to come into full compliance. Publication of the final rules in the Federal Register is expected to occur later this week.


Here is some other good stuff I came across.

SEC. 326. VERIFICATION OF IDENTIFICATION.
(a) IN GENERAL- Section 5318 of title 31, United States Code, as amended by this title, is amended by adding at the end the following:
(l) IDENTIFICATION AND VERIFICATION OF ACCOUNTHOLDERS-
(1) IN GENERAL- Subject to the requirements of this subsection, the Secretary of the Treasury shall prescribe regulations setting forth the minimum standards for financial institutions and their customers regarding the identity of the customer that shall apply in connection with the opening of an account at a financial institution.
(2) MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS- The regulations shall, at a minimum, require financial institutions to implement, and customers (after being given adequate notice) to comply with, reasonable procedures for--
(A) verifying the identity of any person seeking to open an account to the extent reasonable and practicable;
( :cool: maintaining records of the information used to verify a person's identity, including name, address, and other identifying information; and
© consulting lists of known or suspected terrorists or terrorist organizations provided to the financial institution by any government agency to determine whether a person seeking to open an account appears on any such list.



The below is what I pulled off a web site but I was unable to understand the CFR language sufficiently to personally verify it.
Maybe one of our higher IQ members can look into it dry.gif


The bank can not be held legally responsible by anyone for failing to obtain a SSN pursuant to 31 CFR 103.34(a)(1) and 3)
Under the Internal Revenue Code Section 6041, the financial institution is not required to provide any taxpayer identification numbers on the Form 1099 that they file with the IRS at the end of the year, and pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1© are were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN, and that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner.

Later today I intend to take this info and fire a few shots across the banks bow :cool:

There has been allot of chatter about this issue and now that we have the info again in one spot maybe someone needs to pin this.


Edited by Randy W, 18 August 2016 - 12:52 PM.
Probably still pertinent today


#2 Randy W

Randy W

    ֣ resident

  • Admin
  • 24,085 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 11:42 AM

Why not get an SSN? You will need it for income tax soon enough.

#3 shadeOgray

shadeOgray

    Dont call me Barbie in front of the Marines

  • Members
  • 1,034 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:02 PM

Why not get an SSN? You will need it for income tax soon enough.

We are and have applied for one but the point is it should not be demanded of her and is illegal to do so.
So now we have to wait for a long time because of an illegal practice.

#4 Randy W

Randy W

    ֣ resident

  • Admin
  • 24,085 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:09 PM

Well, at least you have something to do while you're waiting for the SS

#5 ididntdoit

ididntdoit

    safe harbor member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:14 PM

Go to BB&T. In north carolina anyway.
Wife got a checking account with
only her chinese passport.
No ssn required.

#6 Missingyou

Missingyou

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 422 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 12:17 PM

When my hus came to US with K-3 last year, we just went to Bank of America, where I already had saving and checking accounts opened for years, and requested them to add my hus on there too and had no problem. My hus didn't have SSN til months after that. I think until now, Bank of America still doesn't have a record of my husband's SSN #.

#7 Guest:jin979_*

Guest:jin979_*
  • Guests

Posted 09 June 2009 - 01:06 PM

Why not get an SSN? You will need it for income tax soon enough.

We are and have applied for one but the point is it should not be demanded of her and is illegal to do so.
So now we have to wait for a long time because of an illegal practice.


many USA compnies asked for SS# even though no legal reason they should have they will not open account for her if you dont give it.

they want to do credit check so they can them demand big deposit as she has no credit history.

#8 dnoblett

dnoblett

    Here to help

  • Admin
  • 19,027 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 01:11 PM

This is also an issue with some medical insurances from employers.

Again SSN should not be used in this way.

#9 Randy W

Randy W

    ֣ resident

  • Admin
  • 24,085 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 01:15 PM

What I'm NOT seeing is that the banks are under any legal obligation to offer you an account without an SSN. How can ANYONE (for that matter) pull a law out of the books that tells a bank that they are REQUIRED to open an account for you?



pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1© are were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN, and that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner.


If your bank "use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner", I would suggest you simply take your toaster and go somewhere else. I doubt that you would want to do business with them

#10 usaRichard

usaRichard

    Totally Hopeless Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 975 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:18 PM

:(

Well, at least you have something to do while you're waiting for the SS

:P I think there is more between those lines, err.. after that line

Edited by usaRichard, 09 June 2009 - 07:19 PM.


#11 LeeFisher3

LeeFisher3

    Middle Gold Member

  • Members
  • 7,475 posts

Posted 09 June 2009 - 07:23 PM

What I'm NOT seeing is that the banks are under any legal obligation to offer you an account without an SSN. How can ANYONE (for that matter) pull a law out of the books that tells a bank that they are REQUIRED to open an account for you?



pursuant to 26 CFR 301.6109-1© are were under no legal obligation to obtain a SSN, and that 42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner.


If your bank "use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner", I would suggest you simply take your toaster and go somewhere else. I doubt that you would want to do business with them

Bank of America has trained their officers in the proper identification requirements for accounts and makes it much easier for many, unfortunately not all banks perform their due diligence.

It can be relatively inconvenient to change banks because they haven't trained their employees properly, it's much the same as dealing with the SSA with whom we see people battle on a regular basis.

#12 yemmie

yemmie

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 348 posts

Posted 10 June 2009 - 04:42 AM

:)

Well, at least you have something to do while you're waiting for the SS

:) I think there is more between those lines, err.. after that line

Not quite. My wife has a SS number and we were not allowed to put her on my accounts at B of A because, although we showed them the card in person, it did not show up in the computers when they tried to do a credit check on her. I was told to wait about 60 days and try again. It has been about three months now. We will try again soon. I have just been too busy to bother with it.

#13 whome?

whome?

    S-1 Member

  • Members
  • 1,051 posts

Posted 12 July 2009 - 09:19 PM

:roller:

Well, at least you have something to do while you're waiting for the SS

:roller: I think there is more between those lines, err.. after that line

Not quite. My wife has a SS number and we were not allowed to put her on my accounts at B of A because, although we showed them the card in person, it did not show up in the computers when they tried to do a credit check on her. I was told to wait about 60 days and try again. It has been about three months now. We will try again soon. I have just been too busy to bother with it.


I am curious:

(1) What will her credit check show since she recently came to USA and just got a SS card?
(2) Why do they have to run a credit check to add your wife as a joint account holder to your accounts?

If this was my bank, I would have taken my toaster (stealing from Randy w) and money and gone to another bank. There is no reason they need to do a credit check to add your wife to your account.

#14 shushuweiwei

shushuweiwei

    CFL Surgeon General

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 608 posts

Posted 19 July 2009 - 04:46 PM

http://www.ustreas.g...eases/js335.htm

However, the final rule gives financial institutions the flexibility to implement procedures to verify identity in other ways appropriate to their individual circumstances.


42 USC 408 makes it a FELONY to use threat, duress, or coercion to try to force a person by fear or deceit to provide his SSN in an unlawful manner.



At least what you quoted here says the banks have flexibility in deciding how they will identify people under the statute. It doesn't appear to say it is illegal for them to decide that their policy will be SSN.

As far as the second part above. I don't think they'd find them politely saying they won't open an account for you without the SSN to constitute a threat, duress or coercion.

My reading of what you've quoted here at least is that you proved the bank's point. They have a duty under the law to ensure the identity of the account holder, it suggests some ways they might do that but gives them latitude to set their own policies as to what documents to require. They aren't demanding you turn over your SSN. You're free to leave if you don't want to open the account.

I'm not sure what you'd fire across their bow with this but I didn't read the whole statutes, just what you quoted here.

#15 whome?

whome?

    S-1 Member

  • Members
  • 1,051 posts

Posted 19 July 2009 - 11:34 PM

Some further information. Seems you can open an account without a SSN but requires some serious quoting of federal laws and lots of talking with the bank ... or go to southern Cal. (see second article).


http://wiki.answers....security_number
http://nestmannblog....n_required.html


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users