WHAT TO DO?

[dcwfn]

There are things that I could update about my origional post on dealing with teaching the son some of life's lessons. If I listed each one of them I would be here all day and you guys would get weary of reading...lol The biggest issue now (for me anyway) is to not let these things effect my health as has happened in the past. It's kind of like a high stakes poker game. Do not ever let the other guy know by your facial expression or body language what thoughts you have or how you feel. That gives the other guy the upper hand everytime. Let me explain. First I will give you the sane rating info we see on television sometimes. "THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE MAY CONTAIN MATERIAL NOT SUITABLE FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 25" So, if I use a bad word don't say I didn't warn you...lol Some of you may remember a while ago I posted a message on here about giving him (the son) a vehicle. In this case it was only a 1995 Grand Am. Of course I let him use it anytime he wanted to do so. The only thing I asked him to do was to never ever let it run out of gas. Also, if the temp guage goes past a certain point that no matter what get it off the road immediately and shut it off. Do not pass go, do not collect a damn thing. Just do what I said and turn it off. Now considering the effort it took for him to obtain a driver's license in VA I have no doubt that he understands perfectly what I am saying to him. Maybe 2-3 months ago the Grand Am started giving me those little indications that all cars do eventually. To give it what it needs to pass another state inspection would almost triple the value of the car itself. In other words, the costs for the repairs would total almost 3 times what the car would sell for. It has served us well but to put it gently, if I owned a farm and this car were a horse I'd take it down to the lower 40 and shoot it. Oh, it'll run and could be driven right now. Don't go to far though. Knowing how my wife can be frugal at times I knew as I said months ago that I would have to lay the foundation well in advance to help her comprehend that we needed to buy a "new" car. My mistake with this was ever letting the son have any input whatsoever into the decision making process of car selection. Instead I ought to have told him to shut up and drive whatever I brought home. Well, being the dumb a** that I am I still tried to accomodate him too since he'd be contributing as well. We listened to him, he listened (or so I thought) to us and decided on a vehicle that would be safe transportation for him and look "cool" but at the same time something that can accommodate an old, fat, dumb American idiot. I'll tell you in a moment what kind of car it is but first........when we first found this car through internet research my paternal protectiveness turned on high immediately. I tried to explain how this car is much more valuable in terms of what it can produce if not properly operated. I tried my best to make him understand that I'm only telling him these things due to my concern for his safety. Oh yeah, he heard me. I know damn well he heard what I told him. I tried to give him an analogy he'd understand. I am a GLOCK owner and have owned many others over the years also. I showed him the GLOCK and asked; If I give you this weapon right now and fail to teach you anything at all about it, would you know how or when and under what situations to use it? The principle is the same with this car. Going from a 95 Grand Am to a 98 Trans Am is like apples and oranges. Any person who has never had anything like that needs to go through a learninig process before they sit behind the wheel. It's just a completely different process. The TA is as per my research (this specific car) producing a wee bit more than 350 hp at 4500 RPM's. I repeatedly told him; THIS IS NOT A TOY!!! It can kill you as well as anybody else you happen to strike if you want to act stupid driving it. Obviously as you who are parents know there comes a time in a young person's life when no matter what mom and dad say they are the dumbest two people on the face of the earth. We don'y know squat. We should be in a hospital for the insane . We are useless, etc...etc...Yesterday while he was at work I did some errands in the area and drove the car myself to get a feel for it and to see if there were any gremlins hiding under the hood. btw...this car was CLEAN! the guy probably took better care of it than he did his own family. You could probably eat off the engine and catch no germs. Here's where the story takes a definate turn for the worst. When he drove up from work (in the Grand Am) he asked me what was wrong. At that point I just told him to chill, that I've been on a re-con mission to learn what I can about it to make it easier for me to teach him what he needs to know about it. Now, I admit it. I am a smoker. If I know that it bothers you just tell me so and it's no big deal for me to wait until a better time is available. I can respect that as I have for many years. First he said he didn't like the odor of the air fresgheners the guy had in it and then told me (he didn't ask, he ordered me) not to smoke when I drive the car. That's not a problem either. The interior is immaculate and that is after all one of the best things a man can do to keep it nice. I didn't get angry at all but I did remind him that he isn't the only person who will drive the car. As for me I'd rather drive my "old fart's" pickup truck. There's just times when if it's available the car makes more sense. It's a very good thing at this moment that my wife doesn't read English well 'cause this is where I get pissed off at him. Not at all a yelling, screaming, throwing things tantrum thing, just your average everyday state of pisstivity. Yes, I remember that when I was 23 I wasn't the best tool in the shed either. So, I know he's obviously not thought it through before he opened his mouth and said to me in as firm a tone as he has....."I do not want you to drive my car"! Still no yelling went on but I did ask him if he'd forgotten anything about how he got to this point. Not asking him to kiss my butt for it but just to recall who taught him how to drive in the first place? Did I ever ask him to pay a dime for the Grand Am? Did I ever ask him to pay anything for the insurance premium? Any maintenance costs? No. Only as I said before to never ever let it run out of gas. I showed him the data on the premium to let him know and see what the difference is going to be now. And again as you may imagine I am just another stupid American. I calmly got the tools out and took the plates off of it and put them back on the truck. (I did that just to move it from whence it came to our house) I was quite stern about it but I told him that I hope he realizes what he just did and that he shouldn't ask for someone's opinion ever again if his only wish is to ignore the answer. Also, I just told him that he could now go to DMV and see how much things will cost him without me on the title and get his own seperate policy and see how high his premium is. I stayed outside for a while to ponder my next move which truthfully was to let him make another move first. I have always believed that at times like this if you (figuratively) give someone enough rope sooner or later they'll hang themselves. Well, I waited and yes, he did. I went to get a Pepsi and go back outside. He told me that; "My mother says I am only one to drive this car". Well guys, I gotta say that was the straw that broke the camels back right there. After everything we went through just to get him here, teach him to drive, provide shelter, etc.........all of a sudden what I understand him to say is that I am now 100% worthless. I'm still not angry...lol But yes, the wheels are turning in my pea brain at this moment. I simply told him that's fine. However, not to come to me anymore asking for help or advice 'cause he won't get it from me. My biological children 23, 30 and, 32 have never ever been that disrespectful to me and for a "son" who as recently as 12 months ago didn't even know how to drive to think he can disrespect me that way and I'm supposed to take it? Not gonna happen. Mei hasn't said to much to me about it at all. Infact she's as I suspect intentionally not said a word about it to me today at all. I didn't just fall off the truck yesterday. I know damn well what's going on. I refuse to accept any money he/she will attempt to return to me for what I already put into the car to get it ready for him. I just won't accept it. I want the little jackass to think about it everytime he gets into it. Bottom line is that I'm done. Where's the fork? I can't do anymore and if the only thing the two of them want from me is money then I am outta here asap. As each of them have in the past they will wonder why I didn't tell them what's going on? The truth is that I did and they didn't listenand I will not repeat myself anymore. I'm to tired of it.

Sorry this was so long and I hope I didn't offend anybody. Actually I think I did good job on keeping things in check...lol Yes, on the inside I am very angry, upset, irritated, etc.........cook an egg on my head I'm so hot about it now. What I gave was good enough when they neded what I could give them. Now a message comes through to be that I am with 45 years of driving experience alone all washed up. He wants to kick my ass to the curb then, so be it. I wonder when it'll hit that they don't have a scape goat anymore or that the meal ticket is ready to leave town on the next flight out.

[Smitty]

Sounds like there are already some issues going on.

 

However, this young one is certainly blind to the ways of the world! Sure hope he understands, but I'm sure he shortly will understand what he has done.

[A Mafan]

There are things that I could update about my origional post on dealing with teaching the son some of life's lessons. If I listed each one of them I would be here all day and you guys would get weary of reading...lol The biggest issue now (for me anyway) is to not let these things effect my health as has happened in the past. It's kind of like a high stakes poker game. Do not ever let the other guy know by your facial expression or body language what thoughts you have or how you feel. That gives the other guy the upper hand everytime. Let me explain. First I will give you the sane rating info we see on television sometimes. "THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE MAY CONTAIN MATERIAL NOT SUITABLE FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 25" So, if I use a bad word don't say I didn't warn you...lol Some of you may remember a while ago I posted a message on here about giving him (the son) a vehicle. In this case it was only a 1995 Grand Am. Of course I let him use it anytime he wanted to do so. The only thing I asked him to do was to never ever let it run out of gas. Also, if the temp guage goes past a certain point that no matter what get it off the road immediately and shut it off. Do not pass go, do not collect a damn thing. Just do what I said and turn it off. Now considering the effort it took for him to obtain a driver's license in VA I have no doubt that he understands perfectly what I am saying to him. Maybe 2-3 months ago the Grand Am started giving me those little indications that all cars do eventually. To give it what it needs to pass another state inspection would almost triple the value of the car itself. In other words, the costs for the repairs would total almost 3 times what the car would sell for. It has served us well but to put it gently, if I owned a farm and this car were a horse I'd take it down to the lower 40 and shoot it. Oh, it'll run and could be driven right now. Don't go to far though. Knowing how my wife can be frugal at times I knew as I said months ago that I would have to lay the foundation well in advance to help her comprehend that we needed to buy a "new" car. My mistake with this was ever letting the son have any input whatsoever into the decision making process of car selection. Instead I ought to have told him to shut up and drive whatever I brought home. Well, being the dumb a** that I am I still tried to accomodate him too since he'd be contributing as well. We listened to him, he listened (or so I thought) to us and decided on a vehicle that would be safe transportation for him and look "cool" but at the same time something that can accommodate an old, fat, dumb American idiot. I'll tell you in a moment what kind of car it is but first........when we first found this car through internet research my paternal protectiveness turned on high immediately. I tried to explain how this car is much more valuable in terms of what it can produce if not properly operated. I tried my best to make him understand that I'm only telling him these things due to my concern for his safety. Oh yeah, he heard me. I know damn well he heard what I told him. I tried to give him an analogy he'd understand. I am a GLOCK owner and have owned many others over the years also. I showed him the GLOCK and asked; If I give you this weapon right now and fail to teach you anything at all about it, would you know how or when and under what situations to use it? The principle is the same with this car. Going from a 95 Grand Am to a 98 Trans Am is like apples and oranges. Any person who has never had anything like that needs to go through a learninig process before they sit behind the wheel. It's just a completely different process. The TA is as per my research (this specific car) producing a wee bit more than 350 hp at 4500 RPM's. I repeatedly told him; THIS IS NOT A TOY!!! It can kill you as well as anybody else you happen to strike if you want to act stupid driving it. Obviously as you who are parents know there comes a time in a young person's life when no matter what mom and dad say they are the dumbest two people on the face of the earth. We don'y know squat. We should be in a hospital for the insane . We are useless, etc...etc...Yesterday while he was at work I did some errands in the area and drove the car myself to get a feel for it and to see if there were any gremlins hiding under the hood. btw...this car was CLEAN! the guy probably took better care of it than he did his own family. You could probably eat off the engine and catch no germs. Here's where the story takes a definate turn for the worst. When he drove up from work (in the Grand Am) he asked me what was wrong. At that point I just told him to chill, that I've been on a re-con mission to learn what I can about it to make it easier for me to teach him what he needs to know about it. Now, I admit it. I am a smoker. If I know that it bothers you just tell me so and it's no big deal for me to wait until a better time is available. I can respect that as I have for many years. First he said he didn't like the odor of the air fresgheners the guy had in it and then told me (he didn't ask, he ordered me) not to smoke when I drive the car. That's not a problem either. The interior is immaculate and that is after all one of the best things a man can do to keep it nice. I didn't get angry at all but I did remind him that he isn't the only person who will drive the car. As for me I'd rather drive my "old fart's" pickup truck. There's just times when if it's available the car makes more sense. It's a very good thing at this moment that my wife doesn't read English well 'cause this is where I get pissed off at him. Not at all a yelling, screaming, throwing things tantrum thing, just your average everyday state of pisstivity. Yes, I remember that when I was 23 I wasn't the best tool in the shed either. So, I know he's obviously not thought it through before he opened his mouth and said to me in as firm a tone as he has....."I do not want you to drive my car"! Still no yelling went on but I did ask him if he'd forgotten anything about how he got to this point. Not asking him to kiss my butt for it but just to recall who taught him how to drive in the first place? Did I ever ask him to pay a dime for the Grand Am? Did I ever ask him to pay anything for the insurance premium? Any maintenance costs? No. Only as I said before to never ever let it run out of gas. I showed him the data on the premium to let him know and see what the difference is going to be now. And again as you may imagine I am just another stupid American. I calmly got the tools out and took the plates off of it and put them back on the truck. (I did that just to move it from whence it came to our house) I was quite stern about it but I told him that I hope he realizes what he just did and that he shouldn't ask for someone's opinion ever again if his only wish is to ignore the answer. Also, I just told him that he could now go to DMV and see how much things will cost him without me on the title and get his own seperate policy and see how high his premium is. I stayed outside for a while to ponder my next move which truthfully was to let him make another move first. I have always believed that at times like this if you (figuratively) give someone enough rope sooner or later they'll hang themselves. Well, I waited and yes, he did. I went to get a Pepsi and go back outside. He told me that; "My mother says I am only one to drive this car". Well guys, I gotta say that was the straw that broke the camels back right there. After everything we went through just to get him here, teach him to drive, provide shelter, etc.........all of a sudden what I understand him to say is that I am now 100% worthless. I'm still not angry...lol But yes, the wheels are turning in my pea brain at this moment. I simply told him that's fine. However, not to come to me anymore asking for help or advice 'cause he won't get it from me. My biological children 23, 30 and, 32 have never ever been that disrespectful to me and for a "son" who as recently as 12 months ago didn't even know how to drive to think he can disrespect me that way and I'm supposed to take it? Not gonna happen. Mei hasn't said to much to me about it at all. Infact she's as I suspect intentionally not said a word about it to me today at all. I didn't just fall off the truck yesterday. I know damn well what's going on. I refuse to accept any money he/she will attempt to return to me for what I already put into the car to get it ready for him. I just won't accept it. I want the little jackass to think about it everytime he gets into it. Bottom line is that I'm done. Where's the fork? I can't do anymore and if the only thing the two of them want from me is money then I am outta here asap. As each of them have in the past they will wonder why I didn't tell them what's going on? The truth is that I did and they didn't listenand I will not repeat myself anymore. I'm to tired of it.

Sorry this was so long and I hope I didn't offend anybody. Actually I think I did good job on keeping things in check...lol Yes, on the inside I am very angry, upset, irritated, etc.........cook an egg on my head I'm so hot about it now. What I gave was good enough when they neded what I could give them. Now a message comes through to be that I am with 45 years of driving experience alone all washed up. He wants to kick my ass to the curb then, so be it. I wonder when it'll hit that they don't have a scape goat anymore or that the meal ticket is ready to leave town on the next flight out.

I think you need to sit down and have a serious but calm talk with your wife. There seems to be issues far more important and more basic than your stepson challenging you.

[Batmaniac]

I wish that big block of text was in paragraph form! It made me blind!

[dcwfn]

I wish that big block of text was in paragraph form! It made me blind! B)

 

I really am sorry that one was so long winded. I don't recall that any post I made before this one was that lengthy. I cannot be certain that he's figured it out yet but, when he got home this afternoon he asked me to show him something on the car since it's controls are obviously in English...lol As much as I wanted to I did not say: "I told you so"! In as calm a voice as I could I asked him if he was sure he wanted my help. He said yes. Again very calmly I told him that there is a slight chance that he wouldn't like my answer but that I'd be as honest as possible on my evaluation of the problem. Bottom line this time is that the remote we got with the car is a POS. Hence when it goes off the only way to make it stop is turn the key on and off. btw...when he came home from school tonight I wrote as plainly as possible the phrase; "financial liability". He's supposed to come and tell me what that means when he finds it.

[warpedbored]

If it were me I would try to keep the wife out of it as much as possible. It is natural for a mother to side with her child. You won't win that battle. The boy will be out of the house and on his own in a fairly short period of time. If he has a job and is living with you then he should be able to take care of the car himself without your money. If not then I suppose he could park it.

[A Mafan]

If it were me I would try to keep the wife out of it as much as possible. It is natural for a mother to side with her child. You won't win that battle. The boy will be out of the house and on his own in a fairly short period of time. If he has a job and is living with you then he should be able to take care of the car himself without your money. If not then I suppose he could park it.

 

 

These words tell me the basic problem isn't the son's challenges:

I can't do anymore and if the only thing the two of them want from me is money then I am outta here asap. As each of them have in the past they will wonder why I didn't tell them what's going on?

 

Sons challenge fathers. It isn't fun to go through on either side, but that's how many boys believe they become men: by being better than their father in something, or proving him wrong in something.

 

dcwfn, you could actually choose to be flattered by the fact that he sees you as the role model he *must* try to beat. He feels like he is in your shadow, and that your competence casts a very big shadow...which is why he is struggling so much to get out of it and stand on his own.

 

Of course, you have reason to not let him do that yet, because it sounds like your wife has ensured he usually doesn't feel the consequences of immaturity, and so hasn't matured enough yet. Letting him learn from his mistakes is the best (maybe *only*) way to get him to grow up. Just make sure you acknowledge his progress.

[Guest Pommey]

sounds like time he had he own place too.

[chengdu4me]

Have you had a family meeting on the subject of monthly expenses? This is a good way to illustrate your point to him without directly illustrating your point to him. By discussing all the cost of running a home, cars, insurance, foreseen and unforeseen expenses, he will get an idea of exactly what financial aid you are providing him.

 

Lay out the house payment/rent, utilities, car payments, insurance, groceries, etc. Somewhere in there, slip in a comment about what amount is each persons responsibility. Perhaps he will change his tune when he discovers that it would cost him X thousands of dollars of his own money to live in this manner. Perhaps he can do basic math and he will quickly figure out that it is not a good idea to piss off the money tree. People that work at McD's as their primary source of support do not have a decent home and a Trans Am to drive.

 

He grew up in a different environment and culture, but he is an adult now, by Chinese and American standards..perhaps it is time he learned what an adult is responsible for.

 

My 14 year old understands that the pampering days are over and that there are costs to his independence. His work day is at school and if he doesn't get the good grades I expect, ALL his privileges are gone until the next reporting period. He appealed to his mother and his grandmother on the "fairness" of this attitude of mine...they both said..."He is your father..it is best that you obey him. He knows the value of his education and he wants the same for you." This is earth. Money talks, BS walks...I have the money, he has the BS...seems like we live on the same planet...

[Smitty]

I'm also guessing that there is a bit of the little emperor syndrome here, and as he is in his twenties it might be more difficult to deal with.

 

However, chengdu4me has a good point about the meeting.

[michaln]

sounds like the tail is wagging the dog

[dcwfn]

If it were me I would try to keep the wife out of it as much as possible. It is natural for a mother to side with her child. You won't win that battle. The boy will be out of the house and on his own in a fairly short period of time. If he has a job and is living with you then he should be able to take care of the car himself without your money. If not then I suppose he could park it.

 

 

These words tell me the basic problem isn't the son's challenges:

I can't do anymore and if the only thing the two of them want from me is money then I am outta here asap. As each of them have in the past they will wonder why I didn't tell them what's going on?

 

Sons challenge fathers. It isn't fun to go through on either side, but that's how many boys believe they become men: by being better than their father in something, or proving him wrong in something.

 

dcwfn, you could actually choose to be flattered by the fact that he sees you as the role model he *must* try to beat. He feels like he is in your shadow, and that your competence casts a very big shadow...which is why he is struggling so much to get out of it and stand on his own.

 

Of course, you have reason to not let him do that yet, because it sounds like your wife has ensured he usually doesn't feel the consequences of immaturity, and so hasn't matured enough yet. Letting him learn from his mistakes is the best (maybe *only*) way to get him to grow up. Just make sure you acknowledge his progress.

 

I couldn't agree more! Just since my last post on this thread my paternal intuition tells me that he may have realized on his own that he kinda "screwed the pooch" when he opened his mouth. Here are two examples;

1. His b-day is the 17th. He gave me a $50.00 dollar bill and told me he wanted me to take his mother out to eat on that day. I have it squirrelled away 'cause I'm not sure why he did that. I'll indeed take her out to eat, just won't use that money to do it. In other words I may find a reason to give it back to him in time.

2. Some of you will know from whence I cometh with this........I was surfing the channels when he happened to walk through the living room and there was another "Barrett-Jackson" auto auction going on. The vehicles in this auction are not chump change and some are so costly it can be obscene. The first one he saw was/is a 1963 Ford Galaxie that sold for a mere...$110K. Primarily because it was used as a police car on the "Andy Griffith" show. Driver's door was/is autographed by Don Knotts. Following it was a 1976 Pontiac Trans Am. The same basic body of the one Burt reynolds drove in "Smokey And The Bandit". As I recall that one went for around $82K. Of course he and his mom were amazed that Americans will pay that much money for an "old car". But, the detail he mentioned to me spoke volumes about what he is capable of observing. If you've seen one of those auctions and haven't paid attention to detail, notice that when the cars are "pushed" accross the platform (they are not driven, they are pushed) anyone who so much as puts a finger on any one of them is wearing cotton gloves. NO FINGER PRINTS! That's what he noticed!

I said all that to say this. It means that even if he wants to think of me as "competition" he's listening to what I've been trying to tell him about taking care of things you care about. He sees others doing what I mentioned.

I've never been the best tool in the shed but way back in the stone ages I was weened on "Muscle cars". First one I ever bought was a 1966 Dodge Charger followed by 2 1968 Road Runners and 1 1969 Road Runner. My experience tells me that this young man didn't even have a driver's license 2 years ago and now he has what we all suspect may well be the very last of any "muscle car" ever again. Trivial to some I know that. But at the moment he said what he did it pissed me off to hear someone who's still pooping yellow tell me that I don't know squat even after more than 40 years of doing it. Believe it or not, I don't want to toot my own horn about whatever knowledge I may have on the subject. Most folks might say I know enough about it that perhaps I might have some good ideas though. Finally (this time) I know what this Trans Am can do. Good and bad. I want to teach him as much as he'll let me and maybe one day it just might save his life. "IF" he'll listen.

[Batmaniac]

Slightly off topic, but how do you feel about the new Camaro? I saw a whole selection of body kits available to turn it into a Trans Am style body. Thought that was interesting.

[dcwfn]

Slightly off topic, but how do you feel about the new Camaro? I saw a whole selection of body kits available to turn it into a Trans Am style body. Thought that was interesting.

 

It's a very attractive design for sure. I can't put my finger on exactly what it is but there's something about it that just doesn't seem to fit. Of course opinions are like those other things, we all have one!........lol

Maybe it's because my memory goes so far back with muscle cars. Lord knows I've ben wrong more than my share but my gut says it won't last long at all. As I said that I drifted back to that '69 Road Runner. It had a 440 C.I.D. with a pistol grip 4 spd shifter. (From the factory) I used to always carry 300 lbs of sand bags in the trunk because the rear end was so light. Those Mickey Thompson M-50's on the back weren't condusive to a healthy lifespan for universal joints either...lol

P.S. That 69 Mopar would run circles around this Trans Am......lol

Edited October 10, 2009 by dcwfn (see edit history)

[dcwfn]

I spoke to Mei about this issue this evening. The foundation I laid out for her was/is based on the fact that we all have to endure a learning process to know how to respond to any given situation and when not to say anything at all. I just told her the truth as I see it from my perspective. The son didn't use these exact words verbatim but the message he gave me was one of the most disrespectful I have ever heard from anyone in my life. In a very calm voice I told her that to hear someone who as few as 18 months ago didn't even know how to drive a car say what he did to me was/is blasphemy. Yes, it is possible (albeit not probable) that he did/does not know what he was saying. At least on the surface she seems to have understood what I said. If I know my wife she'll let him know he screwed up and that the next time he says anything to me or anyone else he'll think before opening his mouth. All I can do now is sit back and observe for a while. I'll know soon enough whether he got the message or not.