Difference in the culture

[chilton747]

Dennis is absolutely correct.. so.. now let's get to applying it directly anyway

Yes, it IS much more fun to do it that way. As, that's what I find myself doing a lot in my personal life, but I am constantly reminded (reprimanded is probably more correct) by my Chinese women friends to STOP GENERALIZING!

On the flip side, I have to tell my wife to stop '"GENERALIZING." She is one of those face readers

[david_dawei]

Dennis is absolutely correct.. so.. now let's get to applying it directly anyway

Yes, it IS much more fun to do it that way. As, that's what I find myself doing a lot in my personal life, but I am constantly reminded (reprimanded is probably more correct) by my Chinese women friends to STOP GENERALIZING!

On the flip side, I have to tell my wife to stop '"GENERALIZING." She is one of those face readers

Re: face reading... after my wife gets upset, she say..'rub my liver'... she means her liver [point] channel.. you got to love the influence of TCM, which shows up in both of these issues...

[SheLikesME?]

David, I see TCM twice now and not shure what it means.

[david_dawei]

David, I see TCM twice now and not shure what it means.

Traditional Chinese Medicine. The theory behind it extends to so much of their thinking about health and treatment... in terms of manifestations in the body, face reading is covered under it. It's source of thinking is really the Daoist approach to life (Oneness of all things means that universal changes affect us; the interactive forces of those changes are Yin Yang.. so Yin Yang is more fundamental to everything in life).

[david_dawei]

if you looking for how to link their philosophy to their character/behavior, i would offer this:

Confucianism – Moral/ethical fabric of the chinese

Daoism & Zen – environmental/practical fabric of the chinese

Buddhism – Spiritual/traditional fabric of the chinese

 

I was thinking about the above some more and came up with a wheel (in honor of the idea of 'returning' which is found in buddhism as a wheel and daoism as 'reversal is the movement of dao'; also this follows the tradition of the wheel of the hexagrams in The Book of change, with a nod to Yin Yang as is central to 'change', and which affected Feng Shui)...

 

It is a philosophical wheel.. not sure it's completely correct so will think about it some more... but the layout attempts to show the adjacent influences of thought and keeps to the top the more spiritual based (this universe) vs ones at the bottom are more 'this world'. which follows the saying : Chinese are Confucianist by day and Daoist by night.

 

http://www.candleforlove.com/FAQ/philosophywheel.jpg

Edited January 2, 2007 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[RLS]

All of this is interesting information, David, and thanks for posting it, but, in my OP, I was asking how we can apply these philosophies to actual, real time, Chinese behavior. For example how would a Taoist react to a certain situation and how would a Buddhist treat that same situation? For instance, let's use "divorce." Another example would be "work" vs "recreation."

[Tony_onrock]

Giving to the beggers:

Read the reports and you will soon find out it is a very bad habit to develop here in China for the following reasons:

(1) They are not really poor compared to the rest of the population. It is an organized business.

(2). It encourages criminal behavior. To earn sympothy, they needed badly crimpled children or adults, so, when there are not enough of them arround, they break the legs or cut off the arms to create suitable work force.

(3) most charities have serious corruption problems. Whatever you give, the bulk of it end up in officials pockets.

Instead sponsor or help particular persons that you know or come to know.

[RLS]

Giving to the beggers:

Read the reports and you will soon find out it is a very bad habit to develop here in China for the following reasons:

(1) They are not really poor compared to the rest of the population. It is an organized business.

(2). It encourages criminal behavior. To earn sympothy, they needed badly crimpled children or adults, so, when there are not enough of them arround, they break the legs or cut off the arms to create suitable work force.

(3) most charities have serious corruption problems. Whatever you give, the bulk of it end up in officials pockets.

Instead sponsor or help particular persons that you know or come to know.

 

Good points, thanks Tony!

[david_dawei]

All of this is interesting information, David, and thanks for posting it, but, in my OP, I was asking how we can apply these philosophies to actual, real time, Chinese behavior. For example how would a Taoist react to a certain situation and how would a Buddhist treat that same situation? For instance, let's use "divorce." Another example would be "work" vs "recreation."

It's a good question that I don't have an easy answer to... since most will be some mix of all these influences; even if someone says they are a chinese buddhist, I will find it hard to believe one can take the confucian truly out of their soul. It's easier to trace backwards (to the originating principe) than to trace forward since people different and the mix will differ.

 

If someone is purely one trait (Taoist vs Confucianist), I'd be surprised.. or else they are up in the mountains escaping people in the first place to work out their belief system among people of like minds.

 

Just so that I can ramble...

 

Taoist and Buddhist (or Zennist) are all very close together is being 'other worldly' in some ways (driven by a detachment from the physical); They can be hermits or recluses who get along with nature and don't mind the absence of fellowship as much (that's their philosophical bend); Confucians are like [societal] glue, it's not any use till used to bond two similar items. Their philosophical bent is to be around people and be engaged in things of society, being in 'this world' (driven by ethics) is more their concern.

 

While most of us would admit that Buddhism are about the most compassion and non-judgemental system, I'm heading towards one issue that has bothered me; The ability to be detached (from worldly things or labels) can make one not feel their actions impact others. I'll give a few examples.

 

Buddha (while still a prince) left the palace to pursue an ascetic life after seeing suffering existed in the world. But he left one night, leaving his wife and son behind. Even after years of self-motification and finding enlightenment (which included determining his self-torturing path was wrong), he felt no need to go back to his wife/son.

 

There's a movie called Samsara of a buddhist monk who leaves his faith to pursue a lady, marries and has a son... the as easily as he left the faith he left them one night; the wife catches him at the pass and lectures him on the Buddha's (!) leaving his wife/son in the night. I've always like this movie because her messge is so obvious; This Buddhist could not see that every moment, whatever your doing can be a buddhist moment (Zennist and Daoist probably feel this even stronger). He forgot that detachment is from ideas/concepts not people.

 

I have the same feeling about J. Hudson Taylor, missionary to China. Despite his great accomplishments and how much I like his theology.. I felt his family suffered (and some died) due to his 'mission'. So it would really seem that religious 'enlightenment' in a few forms (whether an amoral buddhist or moral christian) can produce the same thing. I think the mission became his morality.. so maybe a sense of detachment to everything outside of that occurrred.

 

My sense is that a Buddhist, Taoist, Zennist, could come and go more easily without their conscious bothering them (they stay more detached, live in the moment and just 'do' in the moment.. every moment is a moment of Zen or Dao or Buddha-nature... regardless of who else could be affected--maybe an unfair generalization but there you go).

 

That a moralist (unless some substitute detachment takes over) will reponse differently, more morally responsible in his actions.

 

My examples might be of those in the extreme cases... but if someone's not in the extreme, then they are in the mix somewhere...

 

Just to compare a western philosophy which I see in a somewhat similar vein: The father of existentialism, Sartre, believed the person is a being that is always 'becoming'; to believe you are something particular is a false notion he called 'bad faith'... Very similar to the Buddhist of becoming (karmic cycle, Samsara) and false notion of the self. For existentialism, this results in the person desperately responsible for his own lot; this could be advocating 'every man for him own concerns', which I see as a form of detachment to society due to self-absorption in one's own moment(s) of always becoming and yet able (responsible) to change to directions of their choosing. (thus, something I don't like in existentialism for almost the same reasons in the example of Buddha or J. Hudson Taylor; yet three quite different philosophies/religions).

[david_dawei]

Here's a comparison that I find interesting.. that of the source of everything:

1) Western view, Religion: All things are created out of nothing (first mover; cause and effect by a source outside of and above ¡®things¡¯). To the western mind, nothingness is ¡®non-existence¡¯ often in a nihilistic sense.

2) Scientific view: Nothing can come from nothing (Law of conservation of energy; natural law and chance)

3) Eastern view: Everything comes from nothing (everything is interrelated and interdependent; everything also returns to ¡®nothing¡¯ as the source.)

 

This is not an argument about whether god exists or if easterns should believe in one; it is about the fact that their world view doesn't create an armchair position; everything is a part of ONE; if you make something above, then it's two things not ONE whole.

 

Another interesting issue is that this approach to origin leaves them closer to evolution (things only come from things); Nothing is consider a thing (rather than the western view of totally nothing)... but it seems that in some way, the eastern view is more evolutionary than the science view (from an origin perspective)... Anyone else notice such ideas or have comments?

[phantom1949]

David, this is really interesting. But I have one quesiton.

 

Is there a test at the end???

[Dennis143]

Is there a test at the end???

Every day, after you are married.

[phantom1949]

Is there a test at the end???

Every day, after you are married.

 

 

That test I am looking foreward to.

 

I should be a labor of love.

[RLS]

There is some very good, easy to read, information on Buddhism at the following website. I found this excerpt interesting:

 

Although Buddhism lost most of its dynamism and vibrancy by the 20th century, it continued to flourish in China till the advent of the Communism. As is well known, the emergence of communism sounded the death knell of Buddhism. The Communist government of China did succeed officially in putting an end to the practice of religion by abolishing all forms of public worship and closing down all the monasteries.

 

The excesses of cultural revolution put an end to whatever hopes the followers of Buddhism had about its revival. Today Buddhism in China is a relic of the past, an ancient monument that has been ravaged and vandalized by the clash of classes and ideological notions. It is really difficult to say how long it would take for the cycle of Dhamma to regain its supremacy and whether it would ever happen at all.

 

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/buddhism/chinese_buddhism.asp

[bosco]

There is some very good, easy to read, information on Buddhism at the following website. I found this excerpt interesting:

 

Although Buddhism lost most of its dynamism and vibrancy by the 20th century, it continued to flourish in China till the advent of the Communism. As is well known, the emergence of communism sounded the death knell of Buddhism. The Communist government of China did succeed officially in putting an end to the practice of religion by abolishing all forms of public worship and closing down all the monasteries.

 

The excesses of cultural revolution put an end to whatever hopes the followers of Buddhism had about its revival. Today Buddhism in China is a relic of the past, an ancient monument that has been ravaged and vandalized by the clash of classes and ideological notions. It is really difficult to say how long it would take for the cycle of Dhamma to regain its supremacy and whether it would ever happen at all.

 

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/buddhism/chinese_buddhism.asp

 

Except that everywhere I go in China I see monks and believers swarming temples and offering tithes of fruit, coins, and incense.

 

"The report of my death was an exaggeration." Mark Twain