Difference in the culture

[david_dawei]

I'm staring a new thread based on a comment which was directed to me, but I don't want to side track that thread.. but feel this is worth it's own topic...

 

Differences in the cultures. Is there some place us newbies can go to read and learn??? It would be helpful to understand the differences in the cultures so we would not make mistakes and better understand our SO's???

Go to China

 

There's no substitute for being among a people you want to understand. I think that one can learn alot in books as a practical substitute, but ultimately whether it works out between two people has some forces that are outside of our control at times.

 

Nevertheless, if we are willing to look at it as personal improvement or personal knowledge about another people, another history, another culture, rather than just for the sake of one woman, I think this is the better view.

 

I tend to read eastern philosophy, poetry, and history; in that order... and watch lots of asian movies... and I like to study the origin of the chinese characters... For me, I like to learn from various sources and pull them all together (like a mental database); another person will maybe not like this.

 

if you looking for how to link their philosophy to their character/behavior, i would offer this:

Confucianism – Moral/ethical fabric of the chinese

Daoism & Zen – environmental/practical fabric of the chinese

Buddhism – Spiritual/traditional fabric of the chinese

 

 

I'm a big believer that once you can truly understand the philosophical underpinnings you will really understand the background to what you observe in their behavior and society. (Not that one has to understand everything.. but if you choose to pursue some understanding beyond doing nothing, I think the journey is worth it).

 

Here are a few differences I can think of now:

- They view time vertically (or circular if one believes in buddhism); we view time horizontally

- To them, philosophical nothingness or chaos are actually good states; to us, they are not.

- western culture is more into acceptance of a God (ONE outside of the rest, dualism); they are not so much atheist as simply there is no room for a god in their world view (Everything is ONE... nothing needs to be above the rest of us).

- They are group/family oriented (conformity/harmony counts); we are individualistic (opinion counts more)

- They discourage self-promotion (common good is good); we encourage 'steeping up' (our good is good)

- To them, emotions are kept in the middle; to us, emotional expression is encouraged

- Interdependency is important (originating idea from Yin Yang and TCM: head-heart, body-emotions, person-nature, language-thought); we tend to subdivide everything in life to independent proportions.

- They are action oriented (words mean little); we are word oriented (words are important)

- They respond more; we think more

- They are more amoral (good vs bad dualism doesn't make sense) and their ethics are more 'just do it' , like a work ethic; Our foundation is more of morals and laws.

- They are more aesthetic based; We are more romantic based

 

I'm not trying to take a side in the above comparison.. it is not a 'right vs wrong' list.. but by admitted that, I've taken their amoral side

 

 

BTW, Phantom.. I'm preparing a series of posts about chinese history & philosophy... have long wanted to try and explain certain points (ie: Dao) and finally pulling it together. While this isn't going to directly get you to understand every behavior, it's the foundation IMO...

Edited January 1, 2007 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[chilton747]

As usual David, GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[phantom1949]

David,

 

Thanks and just poor it on. The more the better. Also the more you can discuss our different approahes the better we can understand the way Chinese people may think.

 

A deeper approach to action versus words.

 

As an example, some SO's will talk less or write less then we would. Some understandings on how the Chines people think versus how we do would be helpful.

 

And like I said just keep it coming. Maybe I am wrong but understand how the Chinese think will help us in the early stages of our relationships as well as better knowing the people as a whole.

[chilton747]

David, I just asked my wife what your avatar says. She says it is two names - 1-yang zi yun (woman's name) 2- yang da wei (is a man name.) Is she right?

[tonado]

From my experience about my wife and other Chinese SOs I know (maybe not true with everyone)

 

1. Family always come first (I mean her family).

2. Visit doctors too often (with little ailments).

3. Worry about cleaness too often (like preferring to wash laudry and dishes by hand).

4. veggies and dairy products must be fresh. They must be discarded prior to the expiration date.

Edited January 2, 2007 by tonado (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

phantom: I think one key in understanding is to not moralize what is understood; on the other hand, it does not mean an acceptance or support for what was done (as I think is sometimes mistakenly applied to someone who claims to 'understand' what someone did). The more I learn (and the deeper I get in 'their culture') the more I also see a kind of 'underground' network that goes one... this should not be understood necessarily in a negative sense; it's just hard to explain in a few words.

 

Let's just say, like in china, if you want or need something done you just got to find the right person (usually a friend of a friend of a friend, etc) and then one day you get a call back asking for help in return; they build up that same 'network' in the US... Suddenly one day, I realized I was 'in the network'

 

Chilton: Your wife got 5 of 6 characters correct... so she gets a low "B" (83%) . She should of also told you that "da wei" is chinese for 'david'... the surname (Yang) is my wifes applied to both of us. My wife's given name is Zi Xuan. The characters were on the ceremony banner in our chinese celebration...

 

Tony: From your previous posts... Your wife gets the clean fetish award for sure... not heard of anyone as clean conscious as her.. maybe Howard Hughes

[chilton747]

phantom: I think one key in understanding is to not moralize what is understood; on the other hand, it does not mean an acceptance or support for what was done (as I think is sometimes mistakenly applied to someone who claims to 'understand' what someone did). The more I learn (and the deeper I get in 'their culture') the more I also see a kind of 'underground' network that goes one... this should not be understood necessarily in a negative sense; it's just hard to explain in a few words.

 

Let's just say, like in china, if you want or need something done you just got to find the right person (usually a friend of a friend of a friend, etc) and then one day you get a call back asking for help in return; they build up that same 'network' in the US... Suddenly one day, I realized I was 'in the network'

 

Chilton: Your wife got 5 of 6 characters correct... so she gets a low "B" (83%) . She should of also told you that "da wei" is chinese for 'david'... the surname (Yang) is my wifes applied to both of us. My wife's given name is Zi Xuan. The characters were on the ceremony banner in our chinese celebration...

 

Tony: From your previous posts... Your wife gets the clean fetish award for sure... not heard of anyone as clean conscious as her.. maybe Howard Hughes

David I had asked her what the english version was but she did not know. When she told me it was a man's name and a woman's name then I figured it was you and your wife. A low "B" is much better than the "F" I would have got

[tonado]

Tony: From your previous posts... Your wife gets the clean fetish award for sure... not heard of anyone as clean conscious as her.. maybe Howard Hughes

 

Actually, her young uncle is worse. After he moved to USA this year, he refuses to wash his clothes with washing machine. Thus, he spend too much time in bathroom (a few hours) washing his clothes. This cause a lot of problem (1 bathroom) with his older sister's family (where he is staying).

[RLS]

Great! I love this stuff.

 

Okay, here's a situation:

 

I walk down the street with my SO in China. I want to give a few yuen to an obvious poor person. My SO tells me to put the money back in my pocket.

 

Is this a moral issue or a different appreciation of money? Does she not care about the poor?

 

My American wife (ex) would not say anything or she might pull something out of her purse and give it to the poor person.

 

Maybe we should all come up with different scenarios like this and discuss how our two cultures would treat the same situation.

[tonado]

Great! I love this stuff.

 

Okay, here's a situation:

 

I walk down the street with my SO in China. I want to give a few yuen to an obvious poor person. My SO tells me to put the money back in my pocket.

 

Is this a moral issue or a different appreciation of money? Does she not care about the poor?

 

My American wife (ex) would not say anything or she might pull something out of her purse and give it to the poor person.

 

Maybe we should all come up with different scenarios like this and discuss how our two cultures would treat the same situation.

 

I remember going to Mexican border and my co-worker said if I gave money to beggers or the poor, then I would be a marked man. He said all the poor kids would surround me and we would lose our wallets.

[chilton747]

I think possibly your SO was more concerned about someone stealing your money as Tony said. When the "safe" opportunity came then your SO would probaly insist that you give money to the poor person. This is my experience.

[michaln]

that sounds like a great idea Ron

[Dennis143]

Great! I love this stuff.

 

Okay, here's a situation:

 

I walk down the street with my SO in China. I want to give a few yuen to an obvious poor person. My SO tells me to put the money back in my pocket.

 

Is this a moral issue or a different appreciation of money? Does she not care about the poor?

 

My American wife (ex) would not say anything or she might pull something out of her purse and give it to the poor person.

 

Maybe we should all come up with different scenarios like this and discuss how our two cultures would treat the same situation.

Just be careful not to try to put them all in a nice tidy box. It doesn't work that way for any culture, gender or race.

 

David is giving general cultural differences, but they cannot nor should not be applied universally. There are vast geographic cultural differences within China itself. There are vast differences in upbringing that one cannot readily interpret as a reason for one¡¯s behavior, just as they don¡¯t know what were the influences in your life that mold your behavior today.

 

Individual cases cannot be interpreted for a person¡¯s reasons and purpose for doing or acting a certain way. One can be aware of cultural influences that may or may not have a cause and affect. But, be wary to say that those cultural influences are a definitive reason for their actions.

[david_dawei]

Great! I love this stuff.

 

Okay, here's a situation:

 

I walk down the street with my SO in China. I want to give a few yuen to an obvious poor person. My SO tells me to put the money back in my pocket.

 

Is this a moral issue or a different appreciation of money? Does she not care about the poor?

 

My American wife (ex) would not say anything or she might pull something out of her purse and give it to the poor person.

 

Maybe we should all come up with different scenarios like this and discuss how our two cultures would treat the same situation.

Dennis is absolutely correct.. so.. now let's get to applying it directly anyway

 

Like the US, different people will throw money or insults.

 

The camp of thought I'm most familar with has less to do with money (although, logically it is a waste to give it if you don't want to for any reason) and more to do with not wanting hand-outs; ergo, the flip side is, don't give hand-outs.

 

The general principle is the duty of work (so an ethic; Confucianism): If one has life, one should work. To live is to work.

 

Certainly part of that need is driven by poor conditions (if you don't work, you don't live). But there's an ethic that everyone pulls their own weight and as some might attest to, our SOs don't believe in borrowing money (can be a face issue); so again, no hand-outs.

[Dennis143]

Dennis is absolutely correct.. so.. now let's get to applying it directly anyway

Yes, it IS much more fun to do it that way. As, that's what I find myself doing a lot in my personal life, but I am constantly reminded (reprimanded is probably more correct) by my Chinese women friends to STOP GENERALIZING!