Bryon_Tran

Maybe if a petition gets denied in England or Canada there is no way to win because those consulates rarely deny a case to begin with so they have overwhelming evedince. I think places with a high denial rate like GUZ and Ho Chi Minh it would be very easy to overturn since they deny for just about anything they want and have no way to defend there findings so I don't think the USCIS respect there decisions that much. how do know USCIS treats denied visas differently from different countries ? I don't but for most visas to get denied in canada or england there has to be something illigal you hardly hear anybody getting denied as non bonafide. So the USCIS would more than likely uphold there decision. Now you have places that deny just about everything as non bonafide with almost no wording except I don't believe its bonafide. Its bascally your word against the consulate so you should have the benifit of a doubt because you are innocent untill proven guilty in america unlike your spouse at the interview that has no rights.

Also if im not mistaken if for some reason the USCIS sides with the consulate I think you can appeal to some sort of appeals Court and if they decide in your favor she gets the visa with no interview. I'm not certain maybe somebody can else knows.

Maybe if a petition gets denied in England or Canada there is no way to win because those consulates rarely deny a case to begin with so they have overwhelming evedince. I think places with a high denial rate like GUZ and Ho Chi Minh it would be very easy to overturn since they deny for just about anything they want and have no way to defend there findings so I don't think the USCIS respect there decisions that much.

They really said this? At what stage did they say she didn't know enough about you? Sorry if have explained this earlier but did they tell her this during the interview? She actually didnt get anything wrong that they stated however they might be using a form letter and didn't edit it properly but she did give correct info on my job and they never even asked her where I went to college. I think they wanted to deny because I only made 1 trip and just fabricated info to solidify there case. Here is what they said in contrast to vietnames social and cultrual norms which mandate a lenghty and careful period of pre nuptial arragnements petitioner and beneficiary became engaged wihtin two weeks of meeting. beneficiary is unaware of basic facts of petioiners occupational background( current or previous occupations employer/income source and /or other basic facts). for example beneficiary was unaware of the petioner's occupation. beneficiary is unaware of basic facts of petitioners educational background (i.e. level of education priniple course of study for advanced schooling where schooling took place, ect) For example although the petioner refers ie a discussion between him and beneficiary about coming to vientam after petioner finishes college in a notorized chronology of the relationship in interview the beneficiary did not know where the petitioner is going to college.

Would this be a red flag? My fiancee had her interview on 11/06/08 they said she didn't know enough about me and 16 weeks and 2 days later we are getting married? Would it help if we put the wedding off or go as planned and then file for visa 6 months after we marry. I heard they look at the time up until you propose for a K1 and marry for a k3.

I agree with you 100% its not just guz other places like Ho Chi Minh do that also. Even though they didn't give you a reason or in my case made up reasons just keep at it collecting evedince and don't give them anything more or they will use it against you. I wrote a letter/email along with my fiancee after we were denied but we were very carefull with our wording so that it coudln't come back to haunt us. I think for them or anybody to deny a second is very rare unless they uncover some fraud. Bryon, Back when I went to Vietnam I spoke to an attorney, Back than and still now Vietnam is the WORST to get a visa, yes as much as it is to believe, it is worse than GUZ. This attorney told me as well as several other attorneys, Go to Thailand and get married. Have the family ceramony in Vietnam but do the legal paperwork in Thailand. It can be done in about 4 or 5 days, once again a little bit of money will be need to the Vietnamese consulate in Thailand to help speed up your fiances paperwork in Thailand. The US consulate is much easier in Bangkok than HCMC. You cannot tell the consulate you went to Bangkok to marry because it is easier than Thailand or they can kick you file to HCMC. That is the only reason they can kick the file to HCMC. Also, she can wait inside an air conditioned room for interview as opposed to the very hot room in HCMC. I've been in both. Just tell them it is a dream to get married in Thailand. Check online for marriage agencies, they can take care of most things before you come to thailand for about 4 or 5 hundred. What if I tell them I want to get married in Thailand because of convience? It takes 30 days to get married in Vietnam but only 4 or 5 to get married in Thailand. I could tell them I cannot get enought time off from work to get married in Vietnam.

They turned in the paperwork for my fiancee already so we have to wait 6 months before she can file for marrage again. We have paid for the tables dress car cake and everything else. I can change it into a ceramony but get the legal stuff done in Thailand in 6 months from now however I worry because they might ask why I backed out of Ho Chi Minh that will look really bad to them. I can always tell them I coulnd't get off work that long.

Just remember - the TIME TICK starts the day you marry. You can get most of the stuff in the above lists after you marry. I suggest you wait 2 months, handling as much as you can during these two months for 'proof', and then FRONT-LOAD yer I-130 application with this proof. Should I wait 2 months to marry or 2 months to file after I marry? We have a date set of feb 28th and I have the time off from work and plane ticket already. Bryon, Are you getting married in Vietnam or just having a family ceremony. It is a process to be married in Vietnam. It will take you about 30 days for all the paperwork to clear. Also you have to go to the crazy hospital and get checked. Depending on where you are, most things can be done in about 1 week if you have about $1500.00 to pay people off, your fiance will understand this. My previous marriage was with a vietnamese lady and I went thru the process. We were going to get married Im going to take 2 trips however my world just went upside down. I had a gameplan and was following that untill I recived email from my attorny today who will remain nameless. I was advised that my case is very difficult to get a visa. I was advised that Thailand is my best option. This is very dishartning since I sent her money to pay for everything so far. I'm at a loss now not sure what to believe. I was told by the attornys assistan last month that I couldnt get married in Thailand. What is going on in Ho Chi Minh? I should have the same chance as anybody on here unless Ho Chi Minh is worse than Guz. I cant even think straight right now. not sure what to do

Ok thanks for the input. I have a good ideal of what I'm going to do. I have a bunch of people that are sending my congradualtion cards I will use those but In addition I will have about 4 or 5 close people sign an affadavit and get it notorized. I heard banks can do them for free most of the time. I have googled I130 notorized and affidavid I did find something from a USCIS employee that said to save the notorized documents for the interview only to send copies with the I130 so that is what I plan on doing also. I will ask Ellis and see what he thinks as well. Thanks for the help will keep everybody posted on progress. I leave on the 21st for Vietnam not brining my computer but I will check in with my soon to be wifes computer

The reason I ask is there was alot of talk about waiting after you meet somebody before you file or marry. I didn't have alot of documentation between april 07 and feb 08 because I wasnt told how much or what kind of evedence to collect until I hired a lawyer in feb of 08. However they know I met her in december of 07 because they reconized that on our denial letter as time of meeting her so if we get married feb of 09 Thats over 1 year after they reconized our meeting. I have continued collecting evedince except for chat logs. I didn't start collecting those until last month because of an email I recivied form a member on this board. I know this time the outcome will be different because I plan on being there for the interview. Ya, you've got a point - let me further scrub the rust off my brain and say - 1. any type of communication - keep a running log of that, don't pay attention to my 2 month window at all. so chat logs, phone records, phone bills, correspondence, letters, faxes, all from day 0 of first contact, include those as proof, in your I-130 submittal. PHOTOS fall into this category, IMO. 2. (during the two month window) some of the other things for 'prove up' deal with financial records of things in BOTH of your names. You can get: utility bills, lease contracts, house title addendum, done in BOTH NAMES, AFTER you marry. Getting a joint bank account is hard, almost impossible, due to the Patriot Act. 3. (during the two month window) after you marry, get beneficiary POD (payable on death) instructions done for 1) life insurance, 2) bank accounts, 3) credit card accounts. 4. (during the two month window) - get affadavit letters from those people, in usa and vietnam, who know that you are married to her. WHen you go back to marry, be prepared to gather the affadavits from her friends and family in vietnam. 5. (during the two month window) - take one of those glorious wedding photos of the two of you - submit it to your local newspaper with a write up of marriage announcement. Get about 20 sets of the newspaper when it's published, make a 'top clipping' and add it to yer evidence pile. so - for this two month window, after you marry, get all this stuff done, then make the I-130 submittal. I am suggesting two months for 2 reasons - 1. it will take that long to get some of these things done and 2. it gives you time to totally prepare your 'relationship evidence' prior to filing, in this attempt to 'front-load' your evidence pile. Makes copies, as well - some suggest 2 sets of additional copies, others suggest 4 sets of additional copies. There's also this concept of weighing 'contact and communication' versus 'actual face time'. For example, my wife and I were in daily contact almost every day for 22 months before I came to China, specifically to marry her. I've got logs of chats and phone records during this period. Some members don't have this, and even though USCIS approves a petition, GUZ will trip em up without this evidence. I suggest to front-load any petition, because of the 'dead time' between a consulate receiving the paperfile from NVC and the interview date. The VO then have TIME to review the 11 inches of evidence (exageration for effect) that you originally submitted, because it's IN the casefile that was sent over from NVC. Carting along this evidence for interview day , IMO, is mostly useless if one is expecting a VO to actually pore over it - they can't - they only have a few minutes during each interview. Sure, some things are looked at, the VO ask's the applicant for some things, but mostly, 2 years of chat logs won't be looked at during the actual interview. Anyway, that's my opinion based on reading lots o stuff, here, on VJ, and the USCIS website. I could be dead wrong, as well - but hey - this advice is free - do with it what you will. Thanks for this huge post and the other ones as well. I am no very good at legal papers but I read threw the I-130 like you said and read the part about the affidavids. I have one more very import question do the affidavits need to be notorized? I read somewhere that stated it would have to be in the instructions and in the I-130 instructions it does not say so I assume you wouldn't have to have it notorized.

The reason I ask is there was alot of talk about waiting after you meet somebody before you file or marry. I didn't have alot of documentation between april 07 and feb 08 because I wasnt told how much or what kind of evedence to collect until I hired a lawyer in feb of 08. However they know I met her in december of 07 because they reconized that on our denial letter as time of meeting her so if we get married feb of 09 Thats over 1 year after they reconized our meeting. I have continued collecting evedince except for chat logs. I didn't start collecting those until last month because of an email I recivied form a member on this board. I know this time the outcome will be different because I plan on being there for the interview.

Marcus is handling the paperwork he told me just to keep collecting the evedence. He did want me to get 2 affidavids from the people that set us up. I plan to get more affidavids unless he tells me not to. The only reason I think he would tell me not to is if it looks like im trying to manufacture evedince to get my case approved or if he thinks filing an affidavid will draw attention to a possible weeknesses in my case. He told me I would have to make 1 more trip to marry her but I will be making 4 more trips 2 to marry once after 6 months and again for her interview. I also plan to add her to my life insurance policy and taxes and other stuff I found on here that Marcus hasn't even told me about yet. The info I get from you and others is very critical if I want to succeed.

I have a few questions foregive me for being nieve in this process. 1. By front loading do you mean submitting your evedince like phone records emails chat logs ect with your visa application or do you submitt it at a different time? 2.I thought all that stuff was supposed to be taken to the interview or do you do both? 3. I wrote a letter after my denial rebutting the consular findings I will be sending that with my petition. The other is im not sure what these mean 4.COnOff 5.ACS 6.ACH I assume COnOff is the person doing the interviewing or an interview person and the ACS and ACH is the place where they go for the interview the consulate. I'm trying to think what we could have notorized before the interview day. yikes. 1. with visa application 2. this is a cr-1, buddy, re-read the i-130 instructions. 3. that's nice. for what? what about a letter to stop the k-1 ? 4. Consular Official or Consular Officer 5. American Citizen Services, which is different than 6. American Citizen Hour The first time I filed a K1 the attorny did all the work so I see alot of acronyms in peoples time lines I have no clue of what they mean. I have picked up bits and pieces from reading everybody posts and Have a good idea or clue. I was told to submitt the rebuttle letter when I refile for the K3 or CR1. My K1 from what my congress person told me has expired she was the one that told me to send in the letter. The American Citizen Hour is that an hour where we can visit and ask questions at the Consulars Office? I have an appointment to see Marcus Ellis it sounds like he wants to rush my case threw but I will print out this list and tell him to wait until I can get this stuff done

Just remember - the TIME TICK starts the day you marry. You can get most of the stuff in the above lists after you marry. I suggest you wait 2 months, handling as much as you can during these two months for 'proof', and then FRONT-LOAD yer I-130 application with this proof. Should I wait 2 months to marry or 2 months to file after I marry? We have a date set of feb 28th and I have the time off from work and plane ticket already.

I have a few questions foregive me for being nieve in this process. By front loading do you mean submitting your evedince like phone records emails chat logs ect with your visa application or do you submitt it at a different time? I thought all that stuff was supposed to be taken to the interview or do you do both? I wrote a letter after my denial rebutting the consular findings I will be sending that with my petition. The other is im not sure what these mean COnOff ACS ACH I assume COnOff is the person doing the interviewing or an interview person and the ACS and ACH is the place where they go for the interview the consulate. I'm trying to think what we could have notorized before the interview day.

Sorry to hear that it can be very depressing, There are a few good attornys mentioned on this site the only one I have had contact with is Marcus Ellis he has an office in Ho Chi Minh and one in the states. There have been serveral here that have used him so they might be able to give you more info than me. Just do your research visit this site absorb as much as you can don't rely on the attorny to do everything and you will get the visa it might take a year or two but by the time she has her next interview she should be better with her English. Dont' rush take your time get a game plan once you do that you will find alot of the stress and depression will go away or at least it has for me.

Hi, I'm in the same boat, and its not the end of the world. You need her to go to an attorny over there if you cannot find one you might be able to contact Marcus Ellis He has an office In America and Ho Chi Minh. Have your fiancee see an attorny as soon as possible while the interview is still fresh in her head. I had mine see Marcus Ellis he was very reasonable after a consult he gave me a good recomendation. Then follow that plan to the best of your ability never trust the lawyer to do everything for you. I paid an attorny and figured it was in the bag he was 100% guarentee so I trusted everthing to him. He told me all I had to do is sit back and wait for her. He told me he would have somebody coach my fiancee however the few hours she was coached was worthless when it came time for the interview. She was so nervous and mentaly unprepared she didn't have a chance. The second interview will be different in your case and my case. I also checked into moving to canada they have a 67 point system I am also in the IT field however to move there on the point system you have to have a perfered profession. All the IT perfered positions fields seems you have to have the title of a Director or higher. I spoke with a Canadian immagration attorny he told me I didn't quilify for the perfered worker program but said if I got a job offer that could change things. He also told me to contact him in a few months because he thought the laws were going to change between the US and Canada as far as immigration. I have check into teaching not for China but for Vietnam. If you have a 4 year degree in just about anything you can get a job there teaching starting at about 15$ an hour. You can earn a little more if you get a teaching certificate that takes 6 months to get. I would hold off on Canada or moving there until you talk to an attorny and see what they advise. I personally think you can bring her over here it will just take time.

did we know if anyone get denied on his second try?.....i think we need statistics then we can draw conclusion of how to proceed if denied the first time. getting married on the second try is certainly part of proving to GUZ " bonafide" and then, time and visits are also some of the most important factors too. IMO, no rush is needed in the second try and as cliche as it is... time will prove everything..bonafide or not....time is the best witness in this whole process....... Yes time is a big part of it, I wish there was some way we could find out the success rate on passing the second time. 2 years seems to be the magic number that I hear here and other places. I'm not sure when that 2 year counter starts. I was thinking it started from the first time you filed but it might be from the time you get denied. I met my fiancee april of 07 we filed a year later april of 08 denied dec of 08. I plan to file april of 09 so by the time we get our next interview we will have been together 3 years. There is a good website I found very usefull its http://www.apexvisa.us/ under critical info it has alot of good advice. I would recomend highly anybody that is going to go for a visa first or second attemp to read that.

Just remember a lawyer can only do so much so if you want her hear you have to do alot of the research yourself. I hired a lawyer for the first process and he said 100% guarentee so I trusted him and did the minimum and ended up in the same boat. I would recomend doeing alot of the work on your own and leave the legal stuff to the attorny. If you talk to that attorny make sure he does not cancel your expired petition because then you will be done. I would recomend reading this link its posted on this and many other boards several times. http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm I do about 20 hours of research on this board, visa journey and the family immigration board. I email several lawyers to get free consults and I try to peice all the info together. I email several members on these boards and ask questions if I'm unsure of something. The accumulated knowledge and future trends of interview results will give you the best chance to succeed. Ive sent pm to most people on this thread and have recived what I would call priceless information even though my fiancee is in ho chi minh it still applies.

I was going to marry my fiancee in another city like Thiland Hanio or Hong Kong instead of Ho Chi Minh but my senator's helper advised against it she said it would look suspicious like we were tying to get around Ho Chi Minh and that could hurt our case. I don't know how legit that is but I don't want to do anything to hurt our case so I'm getting married in Ho Chi Minh. Just think everything threw first I would retain Marcus Ellis and see what he thinks he has had good success getting the visa approved on the second time.

The word overcome is used incorreclty because it implies you did something wrong and you need to overcome it. You could just as well say you havent suffered enough or waited enough. What could anybody overcome when they don't give you a reason or in my case they make up reasons.

I agree with you 100% its not just guz other places like Ho Chi Minh do that also. Even though they didn't give you a reason or in my case made up reasons just keep at it collecting evedince and don't give them anything more or they will use it against you. I wrote a letter/email along with my fiancee after we were denied but we were very carefull with our wording so that it coudln't come back to haunt us. I think for them or anybody to deny a second is very rare unless they uncover some fraud.

When mine was denied the consulate made up reasons. How do you overcome lies that the consulate makes up? They said I proposed after 2 weeks of meeting but I proposed after 8 months of meeting online. They said she didn't know where I worked and she told them twice during the interview. They said she didn't know the name of the college I went to and they didn't even ask her what college I went to. The only thing that was truethfull was the fact that I only made 1 visit, however that is legally all you are obligated to make so the only time they didn't lie was a reason they couldn't deny it for to begin with. How do I overcome lies that the consulate makes up? It's impossible I cannot call them liars? Should I tape the interview they will be even more suspicious. Its very hard to overcome something that is not in your control. So yes Im a little envious because at least they just denied it sparing you a bunch of made up lies that you cannot possible defend.

A non-bonafide relationship is a non-bonafide relationship. They are REQUIRED to deny (in their view) non-bonafide relationships. Yes they also deny bonafide relationships as non bonifide many times I'm proof of that as are many on here. So in the one situation that they denied it twice the woman was scamming her fiancee and that was good that they caught it. So what im taking from this is if you are both legit your odds of getting denied as non bonafide the second time are mute as long provide evedince of an ongoing relationship. The problem is my K1 visa's now expire so there is no chance to appeal them so they don't get overturned by the USCIS anymore if they are expired. If I marry my fiancee refile a K3 with rebuttle info and they approve of the petion in a way they are overturning the consulate decision by approving the K3 and sending it over for an interview.

Has anybody ever been denied the second time? I know if you try two K1's it has happened but has anyone been denied a marriage visa the second time for not bonafide? I would think they would have to find something else to deny you with the second time instead of bonafide.