Dan R

Tell her she is seeing China's future as wages and benfits increase. I remember when the first self serve gas stations went in. People wouldn't use them. It took time. When you went into a department store there was a sales clerk to greet you and ask what were you looking for. Actually the U.S. had more service than anything I have yet seen in China just 40 years ago. So appreciate what you like in the China of today. It was also different 40 years ago. But wait til you see the changes in 10 years. Everyone was shocked in the 70's-80's how quickly Japan changed. China is changing many times faster.

I think you have something there Paul. Much we are looking at are slices of time in regional development which we are all a part of.

Actually if you go back you will see that it was aosnow that was spit at. Either he also has not read all the posts or regarded my comment about his post as perhaps not sufficient to be a comment on the spitting. It is true I did not comment on it directly but merely remarked on bigotry. I did think it was a nasty thing to have done. Actually it may be that with memories of watching the cultural revolution we may be less surprised from the Chinese than what we see in our country. There is more shock value in it being so recent and in a major American city. That doesn't make either event any more acceptable or repulsive. Most comments were directed at consoling the immediate victims.. "isn't it funny, not a single person commented on an American being spat upon in China. No one said it's just as wrong in Shanghai as it is in Boston. What does that say about "us"?

What's Mickey D's? I bet it couldn't match the guy making noodles near the park in Yichang.

Paul seems we have more than the visa prossess in common. I had similar things happen in the 70's in Ohio. Were you one of those guys at Kent State Wasn't at Kent State but I was at the Columbus Student Demonstration at the state capital. Did you miss a post I described the feeling of being followed in my car with a machine gun.

I have no problem with powerful and rich except when it is also disrespectful and wasteful. I would hardly say China is like the U.S. of the 50's & 60's. I found it to be much less safe for the majority (never locked our doors in the 50's & 60's) and much safer for the minorities (didn't see the KKK there). Wouldn't want to go back but hope we do things better in the future.

Typos are standard operating procedure here. Some members cannot spell even with their spil chuckers turned on... Best wishes to you for a smooth and quick ride to happiness... Yup and yer spilling will probly git wurse the mor time you spen here

unfortunately it is true bigotry and hatred are not limited to any one place on earth.

Paul seems we have more than the visa prossess in common. I had similar things happen in the 70's in Ohio.

Many of us have been helped by the advise of others here. CFL is not only a place for finding out how to fill out forms. It is a community based on common experiences. I hope the wait that follows will not be hard on you. If you should feel its wait upon your head feel free to come back and seek relief. Best wishes

I feel sad for Jet, she has had a regretful experience that she may never forget. On the other hand that is life, to be exposed to the world around us and learn to deal with it. One of my earliest memories as a small child was seeing a sign on a public gate saying "no Jews allowed" and realizing they didn't want me. Another was going home frome school ashamed to let my mother see I had gotten blood on a shirt she had just bought me and there was a tear. I had been beaten up by some older boys on the way to school for having killed Christ. I am not ashamed to say that as a 54 year old typing this brings tears to my eyes. I think you did well not to hit the man. It would only make trouble for you frighten Jet more and strengthen the old man's conviction. I would perhaps suggest that in a similar situation you ask for an explanation from the person. At least you would bring it out to those around you if nothing else. I did not think you were excusing what happened only I felt we must always be aware of the broader situation if a solution is to be found. I think the above experience I gave answered your last question. But what is an ABC? Never heard that before.

Is it less that it may be one individual? One suicide bomber or one Hitler or one punk or crazy on the street, it is unacceptable. All are part of violence which governments and individuals must denounce. Years ago Americans were horrified that a woman was attacked on the street in New York and killed while 100's simply watched. This is not only an individual. There was a crowd and I saw nothing of someone coming to aide them at the moment. If one person is threatened it threatens all. If a person commits violence and otthers simply watch they all participate in violence. ...no man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy friend's or of thine own were: any man's death diminishes me, for I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. John Donne (1572-1631)

Lele I am sorry to hear about this event. I am glad that she was not physically hurt. The sad truth of what you describe is that it would be hard to get enforcment of the minor laws that were broken. Freedom of speech is protecting the news media and you would never get attention for a claim against them. Racism under American law is not involved because it was national origin directed (seperate laws). I am not making light of this and that my Love may some day be exposed to this horrifies me. Knowing it has already happened to a friend makes it a much more immediate concern. I have made a number of posts here relating experiences growing up in America as a minority. Tthe purpose of this is to make my fellow CFLers aware that they have chosen to become a minority. It can be very uncomfortable or worse at times. Today violence against minorities is often from other minorities. If it stays as that the government views it as a release value. A sort of "they do something to me so I will take it out on you". I hear many stories from Hispanic, Black and Jewish friends like this. Go to China? We have had long talks about the violence in China directed towards Japanese. It would not take much for tempers to rise against America. Welcome to scape goatism (no sheep/goat jokes please), which has always been a part of my life. We are responsible at any downturn of the economy. We are responsible if the U.N. does not favor the U.S., responsible for taking the good jobs, responsible because Joe's daughter couldn't get into law school, human nature plain and simple that will find a punching bag. In the past my people have been it. Now you can blame us for wanting to share the honor . I am much more concerned that in the mixed community you describe a stranger could pick her out as 1)Chinese 2) Mainland Chinese. I hope we wont see more of this as China/U.S. compete more and more for resources. My personal experience during job and energy shortages when I was the scape goat is that we will. I have never been violently attached. I have been called names and had property vandalized. I can tell you that government cooperation is much better than in the past although recently reversing. The 1964 Civil Rights Bill is one every one of us should celebrate. It made such an important change in the life of minorities. (We were blamed for that by many as controlling the courts and government) What can we do? Actively support tolerance whenever and wherever we can. Some schools have started tolerance classes to help avert the type of thing you experienced. Tolerance must be built into every lesson and course in our education system. Through the internet and friends worldwide I push for tolerance by everyone for everyone that anger not be directed simply because of affiliation. I have friends and coworkers who are intolerant but they know my position and I keep them aware of it. I speak up on hearing inappropriate ethnic jokes and comments. For this I have been called a "commie" = someone who does not think that America is the best on earth and says it can improve. I was called this often since high school long before my first trip to China. I simply felt that the non Western countries brought up valid points of criticism that should be considered. I am no longer shunned for this and now find many fellow minded people of all groups. As bleak as it seems it is getting better and I hope it will in all nations. Violence must be unacceptable whether it is a war, a violent demonstration, a political statement or hitting a fellow human being. Here or in China it is not an acceptable means of expression or forcing change or resisting it. Let me relate a story about my soon to be son-in-law. He is Jewish and heavily tattooed and shaves his head. He was attending college 4 years ago and at the top of his class for IT. The teachers would have him work with them on projects outside of class and get him jobs. On the way to class one night he saw 4 of his teachers talking together, as he approached. One yelled "skin head" at him then jumped him and knocked him down. No one helped him they all yelled at him. He reported it to the school. Two were fired and 2 given legnthy suspensions. This happened to a man wwho cries hearing about anyone getting hurt. Violence is unacceptable! Those who believe so must insist on it and promote tolerance. The 60th anniversary of the liberation of the concentration camps is being celebrated. China should also commemorate the end of atrocities from the war. Remembering the horror man is capable of towards his fellow man is to say "Never Again"! Namaste (sanskrit salutation meaning "the divine within me bows to the divine within you in oneness)

No I wouldn't say on their own. There have been many outside influences. Remember until recently a Taiwanese could not vote or hold office. This was allowed yo mainland families only. But even without any outside influence change happens. It is matters of degree, speed and direction and the result is always unpredictable. Bush believes in forcing change. This certainly will effect degree, speed and direction but only time will tell the results. Even those results will shift again continually in time.

The communist revolution was an attempt to break with tradition. Certainly China today is very different from what it was in the 20's and 30's. Definitely today it is different from the 50's and 60's. Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong are examples of Chinese capitalism. China has been one of the most aggressively capitalist societies for at least 3000 years so that is nothing new. What is new is the 18th century movement towards rule by the majority coupled with 20th century protection of minority rights. It is interesting that your friend said "do not like change" rather than "wont change". It is human instinct to resist change, we fear the unknown. Where change will go is always unknown. We don't need to like it to be part of it.

Well David everything is interconnected. Change something intentionally and a whole lot of things change unintentionally. Even a small block pulled from a pile will cause it to topple and create a new pile. No one should expect the China they are impressed with to be here tomorrow. Or the U.S. for that matter. I had a fortune ball at a Buddhist temple a few years ago. When I opened it it said "resistance to change is ignorance". The Priest explained that change is inevitable so to resist change is an exercise in futility. To embrace futility is ignorant. Ever since I have tried to be "intelligent" Lots of changes have happened and more are on the way. Society is only a collection of individuals change there is also inevitable. Does it really matter that we like it or not? It still will happen. Enjoy the ride.

What city was this in? I only go by my experience being in Baoding, a 'small' area of 600,000... The jobs are find anything worth it. My SO has left before to find better work and to just be in a different area. But many of her friends had children (although not her), and one did not work. David I have also heard the same about having children after the career is established. This has been in the large Northern cities. Husbands I know wonder how do American families deal with the wife working late and not being available for home things because they want to move up in the business. It is a big concern for men I know in China. Also women are getting better jobs like management so the men must deal with their wife making more than he does. All in all I don't think that once you take the diversity in China and the p0rogress in the economy, that there will soon be much difference in life styles between here and China. People talked the same about Japan and Singapore 30 years ago and they have passed the U.S. in these things. Such as diabetes, cancer, heart attack, obesity and stress related illness which they never enjoyed before. After all once KFC and the big Mac are on every corner, all the rest is not far behind. We will over come someday. Deep in my heart I do believe capitalistic greed will be found everywhere mankind is. Even into space we will take it. We will overcome some day. No authoritarian government or traditional society will be left untouched. Obesity, selfishness and disregard for tradition shall prevail!

The A- # is the alien registration number. It will be used on everything that is official like the social security nnumber. With the EAD when getting a job the A-# is filled in on an I-9. I just realized the I-9 form that everyone completes is the American equivelant of your work group in China having your I.D. or criminal records. THe employer keeps the I-9 on file for every worker in case the government should request proof of right to work. Failure for the employer to have it correctly completed for each employee is $250.00 per line not complete. This can total $5,000 per employee. I once was audited. The fine was for missing or not updated information on 5 papers out of 65. Things like incomplete signature and two forms not updated after documents used for employment had expired (both were born USC). We were fined $2500.00 which the investigator said was a record low for any of her audits. Just added this for additional info for SOs looking to work.

Ours is almost the same time frame although K-1. It seems that once you pass the half year mark of waiting that the stress increase by an ever increasing mathmatic progression each month. I hope she doesn't arrive only to find I've lost the few marbles I have left. We will stand together as brothers in the waiting room. All praise the founders of the CFL.

Can't we stay on the high road in one thread? If you must devolve join us in the LL. Unless of course you would only add fodder to the sheepish ones.

Is this a personal check, money order or a bank draft? If personal or bank draft what issuing bank. I found credit cards were the best way to have cash available. Perhaps the bank it is drawn on has a branch or affiliate bank there. This might be found out on line. In the U.S. a foreign check could only be deposited in an account and the funds put on hold until they receive the transfer funds. Unless the check is a traveler's cheque

Interesting ! I always thought of this difference in the men as true. So, I think that maybe Chinese casual is equivalent to the American business casual. Clearly the men prefer dress pants (although they might look about 50 years of wear), dress shoes, leather coats.... And the color of choice is BLACK ! In America, if you dressed in all black, your considered "Gothic" and possibly troubled in some way. I loved being in China since for once I could wear black everything and fit right in! (I'm nothing close to Gothic, I just tend to wear black items more than the average). I too like the way the Shanghainese dress, very stylish. In the summer girls use umbrellas on sunny days, its poetic. Watch quick styles change quick in China now. In one city I visted bare midriff, hiphuggers and tattoos were the trend for the 18-20 crowd. I think in China you will find styles differ more than in America by age group and locale.

Yes those worked well. American dietary supplements and meds are very popular and those do cost more in China than here. So you wont be blamed for wasting money bringing them. Good idea!

Agricultural goods are not permited and may be confiscated either here or there. The pistachios I bought in China were great. I was told to stop wasting my time and energy bringing things with me for the family. Now I just buy things there that look like they are from here. Cuts expenses and makes them feel less burdensome. Post cards go over well of American places. Calendars didn't as much because they have the wrong dates and in China you still need to hang the Chinese calendar. Although they did make nice wall decorations after cutting them up,

So what is THE TRUTH? Is there actually a truth or is it simply what is perceived and understood within the ability of an individual to deduce. An accident is seen by four people from different postions on the corner and the two drivers in the cars. All are asked what they saw. There arise 6 truths. No one lies there are actually 6 truths. When they get together and talk about they arrive at a consensus of what happened. Thus a 7th truth is born. After many years of study I believe truth is a way of defending ones own understanding while denying the validity of another's truth. I was raised on a quote from Theodore Roosevelt which my father holds dear to how he conducts himself. "Aggressive fighting for the right is the nobilist sport the world affords" As I get older and observe more I see that this can be easily abused and used to justify war or denying another's right to be right. It goes with truth. Today I find that aggressive fighting for the right is only nobile of that right is another's right to disagree. Social order is acheived by limiting rights but civilization is encouraged by putting limits on those limits so as not to stifle humanity. Sorry to wander to the larger picture here from what happens between two people but I think the principle is the same. Namaste (the divine within me bows to the divine within you in oneness)