Good information about CCP SAO check

[Lee VD]

Found this on wikipedia for those who want to know more about the CCP check process. As I have heard it appears the actual check in DC may be fairly quick, its the processing at the consulate to send it out and get it back, process the visa is the bulk of the AP period in this situation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Advisory_Opinion

As I found when calling the State Dept. all they will tell you is "in AP"...

From MITs web site:
"Unfortunately, congressional offices are unable to help expedite visa issuance. The Department of State considers this to be a matter of national security and will not circumvent the security advisory opinion process under any circumstances. However, a combination of efforts on the part of congressional representatives, institutions such as MIT, and higher education associations has resulted in high-level awareness of the problems and there are on-going efforts for improvement."

Another site, says about the same as Wiki:
http://administrativeprocessing.blogspot.com/2008/11/sao-faq.html

Really good info!
http://am.nafsa.org/knowledge_community_network.sec/international_student_3/international_scholar/practice_resources_17/visas_mantis_security

Information on the Name Check Process (done when initially at USCIS):
http://administrativeprocessing.blogspot.com/2008/12/national-name-check-program.html

Good luck!
Lee

[weitanai]

hello, what did you fiancee submitted for the CCP check? as far as i know it is not easy to get cert of quiting.... wait for your answer, and hope we can discuss this...

[dnoblett]

hello, what did you fiancee submitted for the CCP check? as far as i know it is not easy to get cert of quiting.... wait for your answer, and hope we can discuss this...

 

Note quiting is NOT a requirement, there are several members who had no problems getting a visa without quitting the CCP, the only had to file for the waiver.

 

In China, many of the high skilled jobs or government jobs require party membership, just like in the USA many jobs require you to join a union, this is understood and is easily waived.

[Lee VD]

Yes, many quit and had to submit to the check anyway. I guess it really comes down to when the "gatekeeper" asks if you are CCP and if you had quit I guess you can say no, and then you may not be asked the follow up at the interview, but you do need to answer the question on the form truthfully.

 

If she is a current or recent CCP letter make sure she has a letter prepared stating:

 

- When she joined

- Why she joined (for employment purposes or to keep employment should be the answer)

- Did she hold any leadership positions and what kind

- Why did she not quit

 

... and also make sure she has a solid and complete resume showing continuous time with no gaps!

Edited September 9, 2010 by Lee VD (see edit history)

[weitanai]

thank you for you guys' information, that is very useful, to be honest, I think the US government has its own reason for this ccp issue, everybody could use the reason that are eligible for a Waiver, and since no evidences are asked for this reason or condition, in my view, the waiver is just a normal process that could almost be granted to every people who submitted the statement and requested for a waiver. What it really matters is the second background check, to see if the person is going to do something bad in the country land, this is the main problem..

[Lee VD]

Note that its not really a waiver, its "just" a security check. If you are then DENIED for that reason, there is a waiver process. It seems to be designed for the AOS process though where at AOS if they deny you because of this you do a waiver which costs money.

Their justification is that CCP is just an indicator that a further security check may be justified...

You can see that DOS considers it as usually just a 2 week check, but it's the consulate's archaic IN box pile, OUT box pile processing that makes it a 3-6 month process.

My main beef is that why don't they ask this on the I-129F or biographical info so they can do the check at USCIS initially, when they are doing other checks like the name check and this could be done in parallel.

Being an IT and business process consultant, it just makes me want to get my hands on the whole thing and straighten it out! I have done government contractor and military contract work so I know the impossibility that will ever happen...

Edited September 9, 2010 by Lee VD (see edit history)

[Lee VD]

Here is a more specific list of what the letter should state (courtesy mamabear's post):

 

"

All the overcome took 4 months, I believe handed in in the personal statement saved at least 1 month,it is the fastest case I have ever know for this sake. the personal statement should be in both English and Chinese langueages.

 

So for future reference:

submit a statement,writeen by the person listed below,in both chinese and english includes the imformation requested below(A through H)

A,name of the communist or other totalitarian party to which he/she belong or belonged;

B,reason for joining;

C,dates of membership;

D,any offices held;

E,why he/she remained a member;

F'any education or standard of living benefits by membership;

G,degree to which he/she accepts(ed) the structure,goals,methods,and practices of the party;

H,if he/she terminated the association, the date of termination and reason for terminating.

A. ²Î¼ÓµÄ¹²²úµ³»òÕßÆäËû¼«È¨Ö÷Òåµ³ÅɵÄÃû³Æ£»

B. ²Î¼Ó¸Ãµ³ÅɵÄÔ­Òò£»

C. µ³¼®µÄÆðÖ¹ÈÕÆÚ£»

D. ËùÈÎÖ°Îñ£»

E. ΪºÎÏÖÔÚ¼ÌÐø²Î¼Ó¸Ãµ³ÅÉ£»

F. µ³Ô±Éí·ÝÊÇ·ñʹµÃ½ÌÓýºÍÉú»î·½ÃæÊÜÒ棺

G. ¶Ô¸Ãµ³ÅɵÄ×éÖ¯¼Ü¹¹¡¢×îÖÕÄ¿±ê¡¢´¦Ê·½Ê½¡¢ÀíÂÛʵ¼ù·½Ãæ½ÓÊÜ£¨ÒѽÓÊÜ£©³Ì¶È£»

H. Èç¹ûÒѾ­Í˳ö¸Ãµ³ÅÉ£¬Çë˵Ã÷Í˳öµÄʱ¼äºÍÀíÓÉ¡£

"

... and be SURE to include a resume that is complete with no gaps from education to present. Does not need to be notarized (although we did to be sure).

[david_dawei]

Note that its not really a waiver, its "just" a security check. If you are then DENIED for that reason, there is a waiver process. It seems to be designed for the AOS process though where at AOS if they deny you because of this you do a waiver which costs money.

Their justification is that CCP is just an indicator that a further security check may be justified...

You can see that DOS considers it as usually just a 2 week check, but it's the consulate's archaic IN box pile, OUT box pile processing that makes it a 3-6 month process.

My main beef is that why don't they ask this on the I-129F or biographical info so they can do the check at USCIS initially, when they are doing other checks like the name check and this could be done in parallel.

Being an IT and business process consultant, it just makes me want to get my hands on the whole thing and straighten it out! I have done government contractor and military contract work so I know the impossibility that will ever happen...

 

I think you generally misunderstand this process. It is not generally quick to deal with this but that depends if 6-12 months is quick to you.

 

The waiver is not designed for AOS; it also happens at GUZ. Unless you mean that it happens only with I-130 and that would cover those doing consular adjustment?

 

They don't ask for this on the I-129F since that is for USCIS.. not DOS. realize the two agencies are not the same neither are their authority.

 

I am sure you fix the whole system... Let us know when your done...

 

Back to reality... good luck.

[Lee VD]

I respectfully disagree. In another previous post I explained how I read the FAM in detail on this and saw the difference. The CCP check is a SAO. There are also various flavors of SAO's for various purposes, all named after different animals. You will see the most reference to "Mantis" SAOs but those are for high technology exposure situations in business so are the most common. I forget the animal associated with this SAO type. I also saw an old job posting in Shanghai at the consulate for people who do this processing and the SAOs are part of their processing. Interesting that the back office people are intentionally rotated to different parts of the AP.

 

In everything I have read here on CFL, I have never see anyone for CCP be requested to fill out the waiver form (I-601??) and pay the required fee. They need to submit a statement as outlined above and confirmed by GUZ here on CFL. The waiver process is described in the FAM and even the form itself appears confusing to fill out if in an off-shore situation. It is really written for the AOS denial process when in-country.

 

I am trying to go back and see what the timeframes have been with others going through this process and it appears the 3-6 month typical stands, although there was one case a few years ago that took far longer (but there were other complications). Since the SAO process can vary dramatically in different situations there are no guarantees on time. There was a GAO report a few years back stating that the SAO process was convoluted and slow and needed to be improved and DOS essentially said, "yeah, we're working on it, and have a new system we are putting in to handle it". From what I have seen and heard they did improve the process dramatically, especially when several agencies have to be contacted and reply back. It only takes one to slow up the whole process! But in reality, its the consulate processing to make the SAO request, and then to process the call in letter when the SAO comes back that adds 6-8 weeks to the processing. The hope for me an others is to get the DOS phone line, or the consulate to give a hint when the SAO comes back to the consulate and they are in final processing. It appears that they know this but don't often reveal it, although may tip off to say it may be soon. Thats the big hurdle.

 

I only saw maybe 1-2 CCP cases per year reported here on CFL that actually went to SAO (some were lucky and were approved without the processing). Although everyone described this as a "waiver", no waiver form was filed. If you can reference a case here where the waiver form was filed and fee paid, I would be very interested to see how that was done.

 

Of course, I think that its absurd that they need to blanket check all CCP members since it is so common to join for various reasons, but its the "law" as far as the consulate is concerned. (Is the FAM law? or just policy??)

[david_dawei]

I know that Don dumped stuff older than 3 year? We used to talk quite a bit about this but I think that may of been dumped. What you read in 9FAM is not necessarily what you see in practice. We saw cases more taking 6-12 months and some requiring the waiver. Usually once it left the consulate, the consulate usually acted like it was completely out of their hands and were just waiting like the applicant. That would be good if the process has improved. Maybe your case will reflect that but each case has unique issues and so defining it's outcome as a trend is not easy.

 

Here is the only thread I could find which I knew was in L&R: http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19111

 

If a CFL link is broken, then the thread is gone. If another link is broken, try the root address then search.

[Lee VD]

Its absolutely correct that CCP is grounds for ineligibility and they can deny you outright on that alone. In the past, they probably essentially did that more often and told people they could waiver out of it but would have to go through that waiver process (with the consulate forwarding the waiver back to the states). That certainly would be a 6-12 month process. I think what they are doing now with the "questionnaire" process is assuming the person is waiverable (by reviewing their letter themselves), sending them through the SAO check, and if that is good, approving them (per the FAM portion on the subject). So I guess we should be thankful

 

We will have two new data points. Someone else here interviewed the day before my fiance and was also blue slipped for CCP. Both of our gals are in the education field so it should be a fairly similar pathway and we can see how it goes.

[Lee VD]

I was able to gleen a little info on the status of the SAO on a call to the DOS. Even though I was fed the "..it's in administrative processing..." line, I asked specifically if the SAO had been completed by the state department and sent back to the consulate and they said "not yet". So, not what I wanted to hear but did give me more specific information. So, for others in this situation in the future, be sure to ask this specifically.

 

(202) 663-1225 Hit 1 then 0 , let it keep ringing....

[hugazebra]

(202) 663-1225 Hit 1 then 0 , let it keep ringing....

 

 

A very timely update. I finally got settled into a daylight schedule here in the US and charged up my cellphone for 15 minutes on hold. Nice touch how their hold music is a ringing sound instead of Muzak.

 

They wouldn't tell me anything about my wife's SAO status because the consulate had just put a callback letter in the mail (EMS) yesterday. I assume this means they have already completed processing and are either ready to issue a visa or ready to give us a Bronx cheer and force me to start the waiver process.

 

Either way, that marks almost exactly 3 months since my wife's July 20th interview date. Funny how they sent it out on the exact same day I got around to filling out the "Contact Us" form on the consulate website to ask for an update.

 

I will make sure my wife watches out for those ninja stealth EMS deliveries. Personally, I always had the worst experiences with EMS deliveries not bothering to leave a missed delivery note until many days later...

[Lee VD]

That's awesome!! Since my gal interviewed the day after yours I hope she is one day behind yours! haha! Let us know if the letter is the approval letter!!

[Lee VD]

I inquired on our case to the consulate through their form and got a reply back tonight that the AP is over, the visa will be approved, they are sending out the callback letter this week and gave me a tracking#! Whoo hoo!

So there we have 2 recent instances of CCP overcome in almost exactly 3 months.

 

I have booked her a flight to GUZ next wednesday in the assumption she gets the letter by then. I can change the flights as needed with no charge. My question though is I think I recall there are only certain hours they accept the callbacks? Does anyone recall the days/hours? I was thinking it was only Mon-Wed in the early afternoon? I have been searching here but unable to find where someone posted it.

 

The objective is to get her to the U.S. by Thanksgiving! She has to put in her notice to leave her tenured position at the University so its a big deal to drop the job she worked all her life to get!