For those in the CCP-- Managing Risk

[howaboutasuit]

US federal law prohibits Communist fiancees from immigrating into the US. It's a mystery to me as to why this rule still exists, but for now we still have to deal with it.

 

After sifting through the hundreds of posts on this site regarding CCP membership, Communist applicants appear to have 4 recommended options, none of which are risk free:

 

1) Lie

2) Quit the Communist Party prior to visa interview

3) Admit membership only when asked

4) Admit membership in advance by initiating "waiver of ineligibility" process

 

Taking a closer look...

 

1) Lying, at least to me, seems crazy. Sure, on its face it seems to be the safest and most hassle free method. After all, busy VO's would not only have to suspect you of lying, but would also have to go through the trouble of looking you up in CCP records. However, once busted, you will never, ever, enter the US-- which might put a little strain on the romance.

 

2) Quitting the Party before the interview is the most widely recommended option on this site, and many other Chinese-language sites as well. But really, what's the point? There's no legal advantage unless it's been at least 2 (or 5) years; and besides, the GNI-2 will ask for the applicant's participation in all political organizations since the age of 16 anyway. Would it not merely kill your argument for a waiver of ineligibility if the US requests it?

 

3) Statistically, most CCP members are never confronted about the issue during the interview, obtaining visas trouble-free. But we can't actually know what the statistics are; we can only read short, unverified, anecdotes on forums like these. In any case, applicants certainly do still get confronted about the CCP, and tragedies inevitably result. We've seen applicants posting on this site who have been delayed for months on end, still without the slightest hint of future relief. Yet even so, the great majority of CCP applicants will do absolutely nothing prior to the interview, because the odds, whatever they are, are on their side.

 

4) I just discovered this method yesterday, when reading through a post from here... sorry I can't find the link yet... The petitioner attempted to hedge his risk by filing a waiver of ineligibility in advance of the interview. Unfortunately (but fortunately for him and his SO), the waiver process never initiated and the VO passed the applicant none the wiser. Thus, I have still no idea what this strategy actually entails.

 

For those of you unfamiliar with the waiver of ineligibility, I guess it is a legal method usually used to illustrate that the CCP applicant joined the party for employment/economic purposes only (which is grounds for the US to ignore CCP participation). Therefore it probably applies to every single Communist in modern China. In other words, it's the big loophole.

 

This question is, does it work? Going through this action could possibly set off big, red flags to the VO when in all likelihood the issue would otherwise be simply ignored. And the real question, any idea how long the waiver takes to obtain?

 

I welcome everyone's thoughts. This is only my second day on the site and I gotta say this online community here looks fantastic-- and super supportive. So, thanks.

[warpedbored]

I asked USCONGUZ why being a member of the CCP is grounds for denying the visa since it isn't ilegal to be a communist right here in our own country. The answer was "because that's the law" I do find it puzzling that no one challenges the constiutionality of that law.

[LeeFisher3]

There are a number of links discussing Communist Party Issues

 

The following is something I researched and shows the exception to the rule. When writing a letter to take to the interview to explain membership you should be careful not to go overboard on the explanation, but to explain why you joined the party in a simple manner so that it easily falls into the exception without question.

 

Now there is no guarantee that this will be viewed as meeting the exception, but if the question comes up it would be best to be prepared with a statement in writing so there is no misunderstanding.

There is an exception if membership was required for employment and such, but normally it would seem the presentation of this information is easiest handled at the interview, but we you are past that now. Below is some information that should be helpful. Not sure what the process demands you do to get this handled.

 

http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...82----000-.html

 

INA: ACT 212 - GENERAL CLASSES OF ALIENS INELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE VISAS AND INELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION; WAIVERS OF INADMISSIBILLITY0„2

0„2

Sec. 212. [8 U.S.C. 1182]

0„2

(a) Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas or Admission.-Except as otherwise provided in this Act, aliens who are inadmissible under the following paragraphs are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States:

 

(3) Security and related grounds.-

(D) Immigrant membership in totalitarian party.-

0„2

(i) In general.-Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible.

0„2

(ii) Exception for involuntary membership.- Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that the membership or affiliation is or was involuntary, or is or was solely when under 16 years of age, by operation of law, or for purposes of obtaining employment, food rations, or other essentials of living and whether necessary for such purposes.

[howaboutasuit]

There are a number of links discussing Communist Party Issues

 

The following is something I researched and shows the exception to the rule. When writing a letter to take to the interview to explain membership you should be careful not to go overboard on the explanation, but to explain why you joined the party in a simple manner so that it easily falls into the exception without question.

 

Now there is no guarantee that this will be viewed as meeting the exception, but if the question comes up it would be best to be prepared with a statement in writing so there is no misunderstanding.

There is an exception if membership was required for employment and such, but normally it would seem the presentation of this information is easiest handled at the interview, but we you are past that now. Below is some information that should be helpful. Not sure what the process demands you do to get this handled.

 

http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...82----000-.html

 

INA: ACT 212 - GENERAL CLASSES OF ALIENS INELIGIBLE TO RECEIVE VISAS AND INELIGIBLE FOR ADMISSION; WAIVERS OF INADMISSIBILLITY?0?2

?0?2

Sec. 212. [8 U.S.C. 1182]

?0?2

(a) Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas or Admission.-Except as otherwise provided in this Act, aliens who are inadmissible under the following paragraphs are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States:

 

(3) Security and related grounds.-

(D) Immigrant membership in totalitarian party.-

?0?2

(i) In general.-Any immigrant who is or has been a member of or affiliated with the Communist or any other totalitarian party (or subdivision or affiliate thereof), domestic or foreign, is inadmissible.

?0?2

(ii) Exception for involuntary membership.- Clause (i) shall not apply to an alien because of membership or affiliation if the alien establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer when applying for a visa (or to the satisfaction of the Attorney General when applying for admission) that the membership or affiliation is or was involuntary, or is or was solely when under 16 years of age, by operation of law, or for purposes of obtaining employment, food rations, or other essentials of living and whether necessary for such purposes.

223790[/snapback]

Excellent link... So the applicant is legally granted an opportunity during the interview to persuade the VO.

 

Or, just to be nasty, does the consular officer referred to actually designate someone other than the VO?

 

And as a side question, assuming the applicant presents legitimate evidence proving that she meets an exception, but is rejected anyway, will the VO have to show why said evidence is insubstantial?

[LeeFisher3]

Excellent link... So the applicant is legally granted an opportunity during the interview to persuade the VO. 

 

Or, just to be nasty, does the consular officer referred to actually designate someone other than the VO?

 

And as a side question, assuming the applicant presents legitimate evidence proving that she meets an exception, but is rejected anyway, will the VO have to show why said evidence is insubstantial?

223792[/snapback]

 

My read on it is that if/when the VO asks about CCP membership the beneficiary has the opportunity to provide evidence at that time. Having a prepared explanation and passing it to the VO if the question is asked would be my best guess. The VO is the only one who is supposed to be able to make this determination.

 

Now if the initial petition has not been filed I would consider presenting this evidence with the initial petition as suggested in this article http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm.

 

The VO, as mentioned in the above article, is required to show specifically the reason for the denial. Now that doesn't always happen, but in a perfect world they would.

 

I seem to recall that most denials based on this usually request a letter explaining the membership, so an opportunity is given to meet the exception, but I would guess it is a one time shot before the VO insists that a waiver is required.

[Lowen/Zhang]

Is this not something that the security and name check would provide, ie membership in the communist party?

[Guest pushbrk]

Is this not something that the security and name check would provide, ie membership in the communist party?

223812[/snapback]

I suppose it is possible for party membership to show up in a name check. If it did and than you lied about it, big problem.

 

This appears to be dealt with on P3 and or P4 forms and with potential questions at the interview.

[paula]

i rechecked my forms again and found there is only on form mentioned about communist for CR1, that is DS-230 part II,

 

Who IS a member of or AFFILIATED with the Coomunist or other totalitarian party. YEs OR NO

 

Pay attention to there is WAS there , that is why I chose the answer NO, but anyway I still told VO I quitted.

 

I really dont understand why some VO were not so concerned about communist, Some were.