A Question about the languages

[RLS]

My SO speaks a dialect of Cantonese. She "tries" to teach me various words and phrases. For example: "yes" and "no." I look them up in a couple different Chinese dictionaries and whatever she is telling me is not to be found. I do not understand PinYin so forget about that. Are these dictionaries for Mandarin? I know Mandarin when I hear it. When I hear her talk it sounds nothing like I hear in the restaurants or public places. We once had a tour guide who spoke in Mandarin and Yonghua understood it, however, she does not speak it. Possibly she is speaking in a slang or in a local dialect. Her translator told me that it is a form of Cantonese. One time we had a taxi driver who spoke a completely different language. She spoke to him in her language and he answered in his language. I am aware the China has many different dialects. I know another Chinese woman who speaks Cantonese, but does not understand Mandarin. I would like to read your comments.

[tonado]

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cantonese.htm

 

Cantonese is harder to learn than Mandarin. Watch some HK movie (DVDs) and you can pick up some words.

Edited May 15, 2006 by tonado (see edit history)

[Guest pushbrk]

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cantonese.htm

 

Cantonese is harder to learn than Mandarin.  Watch some HK movie (DVDs) and you can pick up some words.

214968[/snapback]

Cantonese is the language of the countryside and local natives in Guangxi province but, of course, not the official language. Many people, speak and understand both. There are local variations, just as there are in the US. Cantonese uses a lot of slang, so is more prone to localization.

[tonado]

RLS,

 

Is your SO from Guangdong province?

[warpedbored]

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cantonese.htm

 

Cantonese is harder to learn than Mandarin.  Watch some HK movie (DVDs) and you can pick up some words.

214968[/snapback]

Cantonese is the language of the countryside and local natives in Guangxi province but, of course, not the official language. Many people, speak and understand both. There are local variations, just as there are in the US. Cantonese uses a lot of slang, so is more prone to localization.

214971[/snapback]

Actually Canotonese is spoken most widely in Guandong province and Hong Kong. Guangxi speaks many different dialects. In Nanning they have their own dialect that is somewhat similar to Cantonese. In Guilin they have a dialect of their own that is more similar to Mandarin. Mandarin or Putonghua is pretty much the universal language of China which has over 50 different dialects.

Chinese Dialects

From Jun Shan,

Your Guide to China Online.

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There are many Chinese dialects in China. It is hard to guess how many dialects exist, but they can be roughly classified into one of the seven large groups, i.e., Putonghua (Mandarin), Gan, Kejia (Hakka), Min, Wu, Xiang and Yue (Cantonese). Each language group contains a large number of dialects. These are the Chinese languages spoken mostly by the Han people, which represents about 92 percent of the total population. We will not get into the non-Chinese languages spoken by the minorities here, such as Tibetan, Mongolian and Miao.

The dialects from the seven groups are quite different. For example, a Mandarin speaker in northern China usually understands little Cantonese, but a non-Mandarin speaker usually can speak some Mandarin with a strong accent. This is largely because Mandarin has been the official national language since 1913. Mandarin or Putonghua is mainly based on the Beijing dialect. Despite the large differences among Chinese dialects, there is one thing in common for them -- they all share the same writing system based on Chinese characters.

 

A distinguishing feature of the Chinese languages is tonal. Mandarin has four tones and Cantonese has more than four tones

Edited May 15, 2006 by warpedbored (see edit history)

[izus]

am i correct when you say

 

you can consider Mandarin to Cantonese as English to Spanish

same root

[tonado]

am i correct when you say

 

you can consider Mandarin to Cantonese as English to Spanish

same root

215041[/snapback]

Not quite. Writing for Mandarin and Cantonese are the same. Just pronunciation is different.

[izus]

am i correct when you say

 

you can consider Mandarin to Cantonese as English to Spanish

same root

215041[/snapback]

Not quite. Writing for Mandarin and Cantonese are the same. Just pronunciation is different.

215043[/snapback]

cause ChunYan does not understand much Cantonese at all, we were in Hong Kong and she would speak english to the people because it didnt seema like many spoke mandarin

she says she knows a few words...

[jemmyell]

I have read that the difference to the western ear is that Mandarin sounds like singing and Cantonese sounds like a cat fight in progress...

 

My SO speaks Mandarin and it sounds very musical to me. The Cantonese I have heard spoken is rough and gutteral, but the speakers are certainly enjoying themselves.

 

-James

[Guest pushbrk]

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cantonese.htm

 

Cantonese is harder to learn than Mandarin.?Watch some HK movie (DVDs) and you can pick up some words.

214968[/snapback]

Cantonese is the language of the countryside and local natives in Guangxi province but, of course, not the official language. Many people, speak and understand both. There are local variations, just as there are in the US. Cantonese uses a lot of slang, so is more prone to localization.

214971[/snapback]

Actually Canotonese is spoken most widely in Guandong province and Hong Kong. Guangxi speaks many different dialects. In Nanning they have their own dialect that is somewhat similar to Cantonese.

214992[/snapback]

Ron's SO, Carl's wife and my wife are all from Nanning, in Guangxi Province. My wife was born in Guangzhou to parents from the North who spoke the Beijing dialect at home. She's been in Nanning since she was 10. She speaks Mandarin and Cantonese equally and indicates the local Nanning natives speak a local variation of Cantonese. Her daughter, who has lived her entire life in Nanning, understands the local version of Cantonese but does not speak it well because both sides of her family speak Mandarin at home.

 

I wouldn't nit pick whether Nanning has a dialect that is similar to Cantonese or whether it is a local form of Cantonese. It seems a distinction without a difference.

 

The key thing is that if Ron, (RLS) wants to learn to speak Chinese to his SO, a Cantonese class is the best he's likely to find in the USA, unless his SO....CAN....speak Mandarin as an option. Long term, Mandarin is probably the better option, if she has that ability.

[izus]

i'd be willing to bet (and probably lose)

that like english to spanish there are alot of similarities

both latin root, mandarin to cantonese you'd think would be close...

 

the more i think about it, im probably way off since chinese is so backwards to my simple minded way of thinking.

 

if you go to Jamaica they still speak english....

but you cant understand 1 word because its broken english.

 

IRIE MAN

NICE ME NICE

[change2marrow]

My SO speaks a dialect of Cantonese.  She "tries" to teach me various words and phrases.  For example:  "yes" and "no."  I look them up in a couple different Chinese dictionaries and whatever she is telling me is not to be found.  I do not understand PinYin so forget about that.  Are these dictionaries for Mandarin?  I know Mandarin when I hear it.  When I hear her talk it sounds nothing like I hear in the restaurants or public places.  We once had a tour guide who spoke in Mandarin and Yonghua understood it, however, she does not speak it.  Possibly she is speaking in a slang or in a local dialect.  Her translator told me that it is a form of Cantonese.  One time we had a taxi driver who spoke a completely different language.  She spoke to him in her language and he answered in his language.  I am aware the China has many different dialects.  I know another Chinese woman who speaks Cantonese, but does not understand Mandarin.  I would like to read your comments. 

214967[/snapback]

Cantonese is suppose to be the hardest language to learn and master. From my understanding is that there are 4 common tones, 2 uncommon tones and 1 hidden tone. Mandarin or "pu tong hua" is China's national language and has 4 tones, even though most Chinese people don't speak it on a daily bases. The tones give the meaning of the word(s) and most of S.E. Asia's language is base on tones.

 

I've been trying to learn mandarin, but I live in Sichuan and people don't speak Mandarin here. Makes things almost too difficult to even try to learn beyond the basics. To make matters worse, each language (some say dialect I say language) can change not just from providence to providence, but also from city to city and town to town. My wife couldn't understand someone from 2 towns away, as his "sichuanese" had too much twang on it. Kind of like broken or "DEEP" south English in the states.

 

I should also mention that even if a Chinese person does know Mandarin, they often pronounce it incorrectly. Teachers, students and many Chinese Gov. jobs require testing to see if they pronounce Mandarin properly. I can't even find a privite teacher to help me, because their Mandarin is so poor. And I live in China.

[SmilingAsia]

I was born to speak Fujian dialect (Taiwanese). I started to learn Mandarin at primary school. I started to learn English when I was 15 and started to learn Cantonese when I was 29.

Now I speak Cantonese with Fujian accent. I speak Mandarin and English with Cantonese accent, but all the languages are not confusing and the brain is like a TV - you switch to different channel when speaking to different people:-)

[ameriken]

I have read that the difference to the western ear is that Mandarin sounds like singing and Cantonese sounds like a cat fight in progress...

 

My SO speaks Mandarin and it sounds very musical to me.  The Cantonese I have heard spoken is rough and gutteral, but the speakers are certainly enjoying themselves.

 

-James

215051[/snapback]

Good comparison......I have not heard too much of Cantonese, but agree with your analogy. Well spoken Mandarin has a very rhythmic walking pace, and the distinct tones make it very lyrical and poetic.

 

On the otherhand, Shanghai-hua does to Putong-hua what New York does to English.

Edited May 16, 2006 by ameriken (see edit history)

[tonado]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinghua_(linguistics)

 

Pinghua (平話/平话), also Guangxi Nanning, is a subdivision of spoken Chinese. It is spoken in parts of the Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region and some in Hunan province. It is usually classified together with Cantonese.

 

Pinghua is a formerly unclassified dialect spoken by about 200,000 people. When Chinese is grouped into 7 dialects rather than 10, Pingua is grouped together with Cantonese, and there is some debate about considering it a separate dialect. Many local people in Nanning are regarding as 4 "languages" are spoken in the area, namely Cantonese, Pinghua, Mandarin and Zhuang, as those dialects and languages are hardly communicate each other. According to Wu Wei in 2001, "Pinghua is only a branch of Cantonese rather than an independent dialect group."